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DSH: best description?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Why does it not sit right with me when the DSH is referred to as a "mixed breed"? Is this the best description for the common "alley cat" we call DSH? What is a DSH REALLY? What makes it "mixed"? Mixed with what exactly? Haven't MOST purebred cat breeds been pretty well protected by the cat fancy (much different than in dogs where everybody and their uncle have a "purebred" dog and mutts vary VASTLY compared to cats). I just think "mix" is a misnomer for DSH. Did the American Shorthair come from the DSH that was brought over on the Mayflower? Non-pedigreed is certainly a better description but I wonder if perhaps the DSH is not in fact it's own breed? In truth? What about DLH? Anyone care to discuss?
post #2 of 21
Here are some links that might help you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_shorthair_cat

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/domes...cat-breed.html
post #3 of 21
Cats is cats. No, I don't consider "moggies" to be mixed breeds.
post #4 of 21
Because most domestic cats are NOT mixed breed, they are direct descendents of wild cats. Breeds in cats are a very recent (ie. within the last 100 years for a very few breeds, most breeds within the last 30-50 years) development, and most cats do not have any breed at all. Unlike dogs, which have been utilised by humans for thousands of years to do different jobs and therefore have been selectively bred to many different shapes. The only job that humans have expected of a cat is to catch rodents, and they do that very effectively without having to be bred to be shorter/longer/taller etc. Most unregistered dogs are mixed breed. Most unregistered cats are not any breed, they are just cats, directly descended from their wild ancestors, with no selective breeding, no breeds in their ancestry. Which is fairly cool. Your average domestic no-breed housecat is a friendly version of its wild ancestors, like a cat version of a tame wolf or coyote. Wolves and coyotes don't have 'breeds', and neither do most of our furry purry friends. Those few that are of a certain breed have been created or conserved for aesthetic reasons within the last 50 years or so. Even older breeds like Siamese or Korat basically just originated from ordinary street cats in particular parts of the world, but now bred to each other, to preserve a certain look and personality.

DSH/DLH just means a cat as nature intended. Which is way cooler than trying to make out it's some created breed that just happened recently. That cat in the shelter wanting a home is a mini tiger that wants to curl up on your lap and purr. There's never any need to claim that it's anything else IMO, because the reality is way cooler than anything you could invent.
post #5 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epona View Post
Wolves and coyotes don't have 'breeds', and neither do most of our furry purry friends.
Actually in domestic animals you hear the term breed, in wild animals such as wolves you hear the term subspecies. All the subspecies can interbreed, as can wolves, coyotes, and domestic dogs.

O/T but novice box turtle keepers will often make the mistake of keeping different types of North American box turtles together not realizing that they're only different subspecies. They later end up surprised when they catch them breeding or find eggs.


Cats can be mixed breed, and depending on the area and the way the cat looks - probably are. (ie - lots of cats that display common breed traits) Where I live it seems very common to find cats that look like persian or siamese mixes. This isn't surprising considering that the local paper always has BYBs advertising their pet quality unaltered kittens for cheap.
Though with the majority of cats, moggie or just DSH is easier to say because you simply can't know.
post #6 of 21
Most probably do not have a ped in the background so domestic, dommie or moggie is more fitting to me that mixed breed.
post #7 of 21
okay this is so random but since we are talking about species, the definition of a species is that they can interbreed and produce a fertile offspring. Does that mean therefore that since both chihuahuas and saint bernards are in the same spcies they can interbreed? I think not. Does that mean chihuahuas and saint bernards are ont heir way on becoming different species? I always wondered about that.
It is pretty cool how domestic cats are just tame wild cats
post #8 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
Actually in domestic animals you hear the term breed, in wild animals such as wolves you hear the term subspecies. All the subspecies can interbreed, as can wolves, coyotes, and domestic dogs.
If you want me to get biological on you and explain the difference between breed and subspecies, I will - but it serves no purpose to this thread, and just clouds what is really quite a simple issue, and not really relevant to this thread.
post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
okay this is so random but since we are talking about species, the definition of a species is that they can interbreed and produce a fertile offspring. Does that mean therefore that since both chihuahuas and saint bernards are in the same spcies they can interbreed? I think not. Does that mean chihuahuas and saint bernards are ont heir way on becoming different species? I always wondered about that.
It is pretty cool how domestic cats are just tame wild cats
I wouldn't be so sure about Saints and Chihuahua's not breeding. I've heard of really small dogs being mated by much larger dogs. I'm not an expert on dogs so I will not comment any further at the moment.

I don't like the term mixed breed for Moggies/Domestics - I think the name Domestic is pretty cool and suits them fine. I think the term mixed breed is fine for a Domestic cat with a Persian father, Siamese mother - for example.
post #10 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epona View Post
Because most domestic cats are NOT mixed breed, they are direct descendents of wild cats. Breeds in cats are a very recent (ie. within the last 100 years for a very few breeds, most breeds within the last 30-50 years) development, and most cats do not have any breed at all. Unlike dogs, which have been utilised by humans for thousands of years to do different jobs and therefore have been selectively bred to many different shapes. The only job that humans have expected of a cat is to catch rodents, and they do that very effectively without having to be bred to be shorter/longer/taller etc. Most unregistered dogs are mixed breed. Most unregistered cats are not any breed, they are just cats, directly descended from their wild ancestors, with no selective breeding, no breeds in their ancestry. Which is fairly cool. Your average domestic no-breed housecat is a friendly version of its wild ancestors, like a cat version of a tame wolf or coyote. Wolves and coyotes don't have 'breeds', and neither do most of our furry purry friends. Those few that are of a certain breed have been created or conserved for aesthetic reasons within the last 50 years or so. Even older breeds like Siamese or Korat basically just originated from ordinary street cats in particular parts of the world, but now bred to each other, to preserve a certain look and personality.

DSH/DLH just means a cat as nature intended. Which is way cooler than trying to make out it's some created breed that just happened recently. That cat in the shelter wanting a home is a mini tiger that wants to curl up on your lap and purr. There's never any need to claim that it's anything else IMO, because the reality is way cooler than anything you could invent.
My thoughts exactly! But I wouldn't necessarily call it a non-breed...just because man has selectively bred (dogs and cats) to create certain breeds doesn't mean some breeds don't exist without man's intervention. Of course I guess species is a better word (wolf, coyote, dsh).

That's why it irritates me when they are referred to as "mixes" as this is such a sophomoric misnomer. Dogs and cats are MUCH different!
post #11 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
Actually in domestic animals you hear the term breed, in wild animals such as wolves you hear the term subspecies. All the subspecies can interbreed, as can wolves, coyotes, and domestic dogs.

O/T but novice box turtle keepers will often make the mistake of keeping different types of North American box turtles together not realizing that they're only different subspecies. They later end up surprised when they catch them breeding or find eggs.


Cats can be mixed breed, and depending on the area and the way the cat looks - probably are. (ie - lots of cats that display common breed traits) Where I live it seems very common to find cats that look like persian or siamese mixes. This isn't surprising considering that the local paper always has BYBs advertising their pet quality unaltered kittens for cheap.
Though with the majority of cats, moggie or just DSH is easier to say because you simply can't know.
Yeah..I can see that there would be actual mixes in certain cases with popular breeds such as Persians not being safely kept from breeding anything....that makes sense; but the average shelter tabby cat (for example) ain't no "mix"
post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
okay this is so random but since we are talking about species, the definition of a species is that they can interbreed and produce a fertile offspring. Does that mean therefore that since both chihuahuas and saint bernards are in the same spcies they can interbreed? I think not. Does that mean chihuahuas and saint bernards are ont heir way on becoming different species? I always wondered about that.
It is pretty cool how domestic cats are just tame wild cats
Sure Chis and Saints could interbreed! You sure wouldn't WANT that to happen, but it technically is possible, among all the dog breeds.
Yes, it is very cool that our domestic cats are the tame version of wildcats!
post #13 of 21
Ok, my definition of a DSH/DLH is a mix of non-pedigree cats where you do not have a set type/style and you do not know the background of the cats.

In some ways, yes mixed breed is not correct...but I use either term depending on who I'm talking too.

Its a cat with no pedigree that you can trace.

On the other hand what would you call a cross between a purebred Siamese cat who got out and was bred to a non-pedigree DSH? Would it be a mixed breed or DSH, or Siamese cross?

Maybe we should use the term DSH/LH or "non-pedigree" cat?
post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 
That I would call a Siamese mix for sure!
DSH and DLH would both by covered under non-pedigreed cat.
Thanks for the chat folks!!
post #15 of 21
I like to call them "random bred" cats.
post #16 of 21
Hi,

I'm perfectly fine with the term DSH, as my cats are domesticated- and yes, short haired

In Germany they're often refered to as FWW, Feld, Wald und Wiesenkatzen, which translates to "cats of the fields, the forrest and pastures".


By the way- if you want to see stunning DSH with a pedigree check out the European Shorthair Breeders cattery sites

http://www.eurooppalaiskissat.net/english.htm

http://www.eurooppalaiskissat.net/ec-ep.htm

http://www.eurooppalaiskissat.net/ebreeder.htm

Rather sadly you'll only find EUR breeders in Skandinavia


regards,

christine
post #17 of 21
I call my DSHes natural-breed cats. No one tried to make them have a certain kind of fur or shape of face or anything; they just are what they are. It's very fitting for a cat to be natural-breed: not wanting to be interfered with is a very cat trait.

I think that the reluctance to consider them a breed is probably because serious cat people don't want to encourage people who don't know better to breed their DSHes.
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epona View Post
Because most domestic cats are NOT mixed breed, they are direct descendents of wild cats. Breeds in cats are a very recent (ie. within the last 100 years for a very few breeds, most breeds within the last 30-50 years) development, and most cats do not have any breed at all. Unlike dogs, which have been utilised by humans for thousands of years to do different jobs and therefore have been selectively bred to many different shapes. The only job that humans have expected of a cat is to catch rodents, and they do that very effectively without having to be bred to be shorter/longer/taller etc. Most unregistered dogs are mixed breed. Most unregistered cats are not any breed, they are just cats, directly descended from their wild ancestors, with no selective breeding, no breeds in their ancestry. Which is fairly cool. Your average domestic no-breed housecat is a friendly version of its wild ancestors, like a cat version of a tame wolf or coyote. Wolves and coyotes don't have 'breeds', and neither do most of our furry purry friends. Those few that are of a certain breed have been created or conserved for aesthetic reasons within the last 50 years or so. Even older breeds like Siamese or Korat basically just originated from ordinary street cats in particular parts of the world, but now bred to each other, to preserve a certain look and personality.

DSH/DLH just means a cat as nature intended. Which is way cooler than trying to make out it's some created breed that just happened recently. That cat in the shelter wanting a home is a mini tiger that wants to curl up on your lap and purr. There's never any need to claim that it's anything else IMO, because the reality is way cooler than anything you could invent.
Very cool! Thanks for that interesting explanation!

I just lurk here, I love cats and I love learning about them. I usually keep my 'mouth' shut but I just had to tell you how much I enjoyed that!
post #19 of 21
My kitties are purebred Domestic Shorthairs
post #20 of 21
Yeah ^that^.

LOL
post #21 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrillblaiddes View Post
I call my DSHes natural-breed cats. No one tried to make them have a certain kind of fur or shape of face or anything; they just are what they are. It's very fitting for a cat to be natural-breed: not wanting to be interfered with is a very cat trait.

I think that the reluctance to consider them a breed is probably because serious cat people don't want to encourage people who don't know better to breed their DSHes.
Well that's sensible...true not to glorify them and encourage what would be absolutely UNNECESSARY (understatement of the year!) breeding. What is so cool though is that they are an important part of cat shows They are certainly special! Am looking forward to showing off my Gigi kitty!
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