Show Grooming: Long hair/Whites

whiteforest

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
1,230
Purraise
11
Location
Michigan
I'm going to be entering my first show in August for HHP with my new cat, Finn. I have several questions on grooming for the show. He is a medium-long haired solid white cat. I'd say his coat is more silky
than it is cottony.

How often before a show would you bathe? I asked my boss (she's been a dog groomer for nearly 50 years) about some whitening shampoos and she suggested bathing with Palmolive first (to cut grease), then a whitening shampoo, then vinegar (for alkaline?) so that the coat blows out extra fluffy. Does this sound appropriate? I hadn't heard of anything like this anywhere else so I definitely want to ask.

I'm also trying to clear up stud tail on Finn. He was neutered last week so I'm crossing my fingers that that will help, and have been using cornstarch so absorb the oil in the fur. If that hasn't cleared up by August, does anyone know at what point I should do the cornstarch in his tail the weekend of the show? After the bath? A few days prior?

Regarding whitening shampoos, has anyone used Chris Christensen's White on White with a white cat? Or John Paul Super Bright? What other whitening shampoos have you used?

I'm in grooming school, but everything we learn is for dogs. When it comes to cats I've got to research everything myself.
 

abymummy

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
4,074
Purraise
11
Location
Malaysia
Would you put up a picture of Finn please? I am not around much so I get lost with all the cat names...

Meanwhile:

1. single coat white cats are silky, double coated are cottony as a general rule.

2. It depends on how dirty or stained he is. Some cats somehow keep naturally clean and unstained, most however are stained. Dirt is easy to get rid of. I'll get to the bathing of a white cat later.

3. Stud tails: Sigh, I hate stud tails. A long, miserable topic. I have a Maine Coon with stud tail and it's awful.

Bathing of a white cat with stud tail.

First and foremost, I would start bathing now, especially if you are new at this and are trying out whitening and or brightening shampoos. Most whitening shampoos (incl. CCS White on White which I love) have blueing agents and can turn the cat blue. Seriously.

so, what I do in your case is the following:

Night before bathing, cornstarch the stud tail, entire spine, back of ears. Brush out later, just before bathing.

Degrease the cat in it's entirety. Feel the coat after degreasing. Check the tail, if it's still greasy, do it again.

Use a whitening shampoo - diluted. Either CCS White on white, AllSystems #1 Whitening. Leave on for about 5-10 minutes. Rinse off. Keep rinsing and when you think you've rinsed enough, rinse again!

Use a clarifying shampoo - Jerob's Herbal Shampoo for example or CCS Clarifying shampoo. This will cut out the blue if your cat has turned blue. please see above about rinsing.

Condtioning shampoo now - highly diluted or just diluted depending on when you are bathing the cat. Again rinse, rinse, rinse.

Note: Before shows I don't use conditioners. I use a texturising shampoo.

Finally, a vinegar rinse if you like. I personally don't my cats don't like it! If you have one of those fancy water machines, you want to use acidic water not alkaline.

Blow dry immediately!

And you should be done!

Hope this helps!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3

whiteforest

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
1,230
Purraise
11
Location
Michigan
Here's a photo:


Since you are experienced with CC White on White, have you personally turned a cat blue with it? I've heard several people say that if you try to use it with other products you very likely will have a blue cat. So I was wondering, do you use the CC White on White for the bath the night before the show, or just a regular shampoo?

I'm planning to try a full show bath routine with him this weekend to see how he handles that long of a bath and how he turns out. BTW, how do you get a cat to stand in a tub covered in suds for 10 minutes?
 

abymummy

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
4,074
Purraise
11
Location
Malaysia
I have yet to turn a cat blue (touch wood). Finn looks like a double coated cat to me which means he is a cotton coated cat. So you're looking for a light and fluffy effect.

I actually use several products when whitening, and the whole bathing process of say, one of my Maine Coons or my Norwegian (yes, I have another now) regular bathing takes about 30-40 mins and the show grooming will take at least 45 minutes if I'm lucky.


What I detailed before is the basics. Not what I actually do! You need to get a super dry (wet) coat before even attempting any sort of color enhancing - and yes, this is what can turn a white cat blue.

What I usually do is first use Allsystems Whitening, then the CCS white on white, and then I use Allsystems Lightening to ensure my cats DON'T turn blue. every single shampoo is diluted to at least 2 parts water to 1 part shampoo. Thereafter, I use a clarifying shampoo and condition/texturise when necessary lastly followed by an acid rinse.

My cats get full show grooming treatment before show. In your case, if it's a two day show, I would recommend bathing the day before.


Hope this helps. Oh in case you're wondering, I'm an Abyssinian breeder with a penchant for grooming!
You can visit my non updated website (too many shows, not enough time) to have a peek at the longhairs I've shown to at least Grand - www.masmera.com.

Hope this helps!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5

whiteforest

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
1,230
Purraise
11
Location
Michigan
Thanks so much! I've checked out your site before as I'm a big admirer of Abys.
The Maine Coons and the Norwegian are gorgeous cats as well. You see, not only do I want Finn to look great for judging, but I have added pressure since I will be 2 weeks away from finishing my 4 months in grooming school and looking for a job when the show rolls around so I want him to also make me look good as a groomer.

Now when you said to have a "dry (wet)" coat for the whitener do you mean towel dry the coat before applying the whitener?

Also, if you're using the CC White on White (for example) would you only follow it with a clarifying shampoo if the cat appears bluish, or do you do it regardless as precautionary?

Then the day before a show when you said you do not use a conditioner do you do it then -degrease-whitening-clarifying-texturizing-vinegar-?

If we win any ribbons I'll definitely be owing you!
 

nekochan

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Messages
2,760
Purraise
22
Location
Chicago, IL
The best whitening shampoo I have found is Les Poochs Pooch Bright shampoo (even though it has "Pooch" in the name it is good for cats too.)
That stuff has worked really great for my cats/dogs.

I don't have a white cat but I have several cats with white legs/paws and it works really well on them, I also used to use it for my dog (terrier) and it was amazing how white it got him!
What I was told for my black Maine Coon was to fill the sink with water and dissolve 1/2 capful of Woolite Dark in it. This allows the cat's fur to absorb the water. The protocol I was given (from someone with GORGEOUS Maine Coon show cats) included about 5 more products after that, but for my Maine Coon I usually skip most of the stuff and just apply one black coat shampoo, rinse really well, then a diluted creme rinse or conditioner product, wash that off and then finally a mixture of vinegar and water and rinse really really well. I guess this was good enough because she looked beautiful afterwards and the show judges commented on her beautiful coat.
 

abymummy

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
4,074
Purraise
11
Location
Malaysia
Originally Posted by Nekochan

The best whitening shampoo I have found is Les Poochs Pooch Bright shampoo (even though it has "Pooch" in the name it is good for cats too.)
That stuff has worked really great for my cats/dogs.

I don't have a white cat but I have several cats with white legs/paws and it works really well on them, I also used to use it for my dog (terrier) and it was amazing how white it got him!
What I was told for my black Maine Coon was to fill the sink with water and dissolve 1/2 capful of Woolite Dark in it. This allows the cat's fur to absorb the water. The protocol I was given (from someone with GORGEOUS Maine Coon show cats) included about 5 more products after that, but for my Maine Coon I usually skip most of the stuff and just apply one black coat shampoo, rinse really well, then a diluted creme rinse or conditioner product, wash that off and then finally a mixture of vinegar and water and rinse really really well. I guess this was good enough because she looked beautiful afterwards and the show judges commented on her beautiful coat.
Admittedly, I love Les Pooch, however, it's very very hard to come by here and for me, it's not cost effective enough.

Not that I show as much as most in the US (Even 50-60 rings is a stretch for me) so much of my grooming is pre show to maintain whites. My last Norwegian was high White and it was a pain to maintain, not that he cot dirty much, but for me, white has to be white! And it's actually harder on a bi-color IMO...
 

abymummy

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
4,074
Purraise
11
Location
Malaysia
Originally Posted by whiteforest

Now when you said to have a "dry (wet)" coat for the whitener do you mean towel dry the coat before applying the whitener?
I don't know how to explain a dry (wet) coat, it's easier to feel then describe, but I'll try. In essence, the coat has to feel dry - you cannot run your hands down the wet coat without stopping. The wet coat feels coarse to the touch. It doesn't mean having to towel dry. It allows for better penetration of the shampooing agents and exactly where the danger of bue-ing comes in.

Originally Posted by whiteforest

Also, if you're using the CC White on White (for example) would you only follow it with a clarifying shampoo if the cat appears bluish, or do you do it regardless as precautionary?
I clarify after whitening anyway irregardless, it's something I've developed from the beginning. Mind you some groomers I know clarify after degreasing AND after whitening!

Originally Posted by whiteforest

Then the day before a show when you said you do not use a conditioner do you do it then -degrease-whitening-clarifying-texturizing-vinegar-?
Exactly right!
Conditioners even super diluted will make the coat limp and soft, which may or may not be the effect you're after. If you are after a limpish looking coat, then yes, do condition (for example, the BODY coat of a Maine Coon but not the tail and ruff) but if you're after a fuller more fluffy, airy coat then you texturise!

Complicated no? Took me about 2 years to perfect grooming an Aby, and about the same amount of time to perfect the grooming of a Maine Coon/Norwegian and now, I am dying to get my hands on a triple coated Siberian!


Oh and by the way, do NOT scrub shampoos in, work it in gently with tips of fingers!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9

whiteforest

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
1,230
Purraise
11
Location
Michigan
I've used some Les Poochs products before. Nice, but very pricey!

Are there any texturizers that you recommend? My grooming supply wholesale book doesn't have a single one.


I went ahead and ordered all of the shampoos and conditioners since he's due for a bath if I want to get a trial run with the whitening shampoos in before the show. I somehow doubt Finn is as excited about this as I am.
How often should he get a bath between now and then, be it with the whitener or just a "regular" bath?
 

missymotus

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
9,234
Purraise
254
Originally Posted by Abymummy

regular bathing takes about 30-40 mins and the show grooming will take at least 45 minutes if I'm lucky.
Oh my!
I'll stick to my shorthair, 5 minute wash and wear cats
 

nekochan

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Messages
2,760
Purraise
22
Location
Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by whiteforest

I've used some Les Poochs products before. Nice, but very pricey!
It seems expensive, but when I was using the Pooch Bright shampoo for my dog I had a bottle last almost a whole year! I bathed him generally once a month unless he was looking dirty. The shampoo was about $14 for a bottle but you are supposed to dilute it 20-to-1 with water so it's always lasted me a really long time.
 

abymummy

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
4,074
Purraise
11
Location
Malaysia
Originally Posted by whiteforest

I've used some Les Poochs products before. Nice, but very pricey!

Are there any texturizers that you recommend? My grooming supply wholesale book doesn't have a single one.


I went ahead and ordered all of the shampoos and conditioners since he's due for a bath if I want to get a trial run with the whitening shampoos in before the show. I somehow doubt Finn is as excited about this as I am.
How often should he get a bath between now and then, be it with the whitener or just a "regular" bath?
Jerob and/or House of Anjou, Allsystems has a version of it and so does Bark to Basics! If you're using CCS, then the after bath seriously diluted will suffice.

I suggest you try a full blown show grooming just for the experience. You'll know how stained or discolored he is once you get him wet, you'll see yellow patches...if there are no yellow patches, consider yourself blessed and ignore the whitening steps.

I would bathe him at least 3 times between now and August but that's just me....


Originally Posted by missymotus

Oh my!
I'll stick to my shorthair, 5 minute wash and wear cats
Even my Abys take about 20 minutes to bathe hon but they are sun dried....
 

epona

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
4,663
Purraise
949
Location
London, England
This thread just makes me glad that the GCCF bans colour enhancing shampoos, it all seems like too much effort. I keep my mostly white cat looking clean and sparkly (and free of any oil/tomato juice/red wine he may have come into contact with - those who have heard about Radar's antics will understand!) with a combination of very dilute dish detergent solution and warm water.

Be wary of using human shampoos on cats - a lot of people seem to recommend brands such as Pantene which contains Methylchloroisothiazolinone, something I'd resist using on my head, let alone rubbing all over 90% of a cat's surface!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14

whiteforest

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
1,230
Purraise
11
Location
Michigan
I woke up this morning to find that Finn is missing a patch of hair on his neck.
Of course yesterday I paid the non-refundable entry fee. The spot is about an inch long behind his one ear. He plays really rough with one of my other cats so my best guess is that it got pulled out.
The skin looks healthy and smooth and there's no signs of irritation. Is there any chance the hair will come back enough in time? This is just my luck.


Edited to add: Another of my cats woke up with a tiny bald patch on his eyebrow this morning.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16

whiteforest

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
1,230
Purraise
11
Location
Michigan
August 15-16 is the show. I ordered some vitacoat in hopes that it might help his coat fill in nicer by then. Not sure what else I can do.
 

goldenkitty45

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Aug 29, 2005
Messages
19,900
Purraise
44
Location
SW Minnesota
Oh you have plenty of time for most of it to grow out. Just keep the guys from beating up on each other till then.
 

epona

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
4,663
Purraise
949
Location
London, England
Don't know what it's like in other registries, but in the GCCF a small blemish that is obviously a scratch will not be penalised (I even know of one OSH that did really well despite a little nick out of the edge of her ear, the judges said it showed she was a bold and fearless personality which is expected of the breed). If it looks like it could potentially be ringworm they won't likely get through vetting in due to the risk of it spreading to other cats.
 

sohni

TCS Member
Super Cat
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
941
Purraise
11
Location
Vancouver Island, BC
I am going through a similar issue. My kitten had a staph infection on her neck and it's been cleared up through antibiotics. She still has a scab in the area and the hair is growing back, but I paid a non-refundable show fee two weeks ago.

The show is this upcoming weekend, and I have to go because I have arranged to deliver my last kitten at that show.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20

whiteforest

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
1,230
Purraise
11
Location
Michigan
It's not ringworm. I was reassured of that after a play session between cats this morning when one walked away with a large gob of white fur hanging out of his mouth.
He just flops ontop of him and licks and bites his neck. They will be separated from July 4th until the show, but if it gets any worse between now the 4th I'm not sure it'll all grow back enough. I'll be especially disappointed if I can't show in August because my plan was to see how he does and get him in another show right away. There's only one more local show and that's in September, so if I have to wait I won't get him into a second show until 2010 sometime. I know these things happen with animals, but man...this is supposed to be my first show!

Sohni, I'm assuming the staph infection won't be cleared up in time? It's frustrating, especially in this economy, to be spending money on something for nothing.
 
Top