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No matter what you think - Letterman was appalling! - Page 6  

post #151 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
That's exactly what I've been wondering throughout this entire thread. I see how Palin especially Willow should be offended, rightly so but all of women? I don't get it and I wish someone had an argument that could at least make me see their side of why they think it's offensive to women.
I've been trying to think of an example that would have a similar connotation with the men, but it's really difficult because of the inequality that exists between the sexes to begin with. If someone has sex with multiple partners, a man would be a stud and a woman would be a slut. A man gets accolades from his peers, a woman is shunned (at least publicly). So even to make a comment during the elections that Obama would make a better President because he's better in bed than McCain still wouldn't hold the same connotation as saying that Bristol is inherently a stupid slut because she's a Palin and has a baby.

It's not even the rape/sex with a young girl thing that is the larger issue with me. It's that it's OK to make connotations (or outright statements) that a woman is of loose morals sexually and that somehow makes her less qualified to be a leader. To have the arguments that Hillary's policies would be lesser than Obama's based on the idea that she may be going through menopause, or that Sarah would be more inept at VP than Biden (she couldn't possibly make more gaffes...as many perhaps, but not more! ) because she has small children and - oh horrors! - a vagina and breasts is insulting to all women, IMO. Even the fact that we call the male candidates/politicians by their last names and the females by their less formal first names is indicative of this.

The fact is that Letterman, regardless of how funny you think he is , could even make that joke about Palin's manner of dress or her daughter's sexuality is insulting. Would it be funny if he said that Michelle Obama looks like a lawyer who would screw you in and out of the courtroom? (An example, that's all. No actual commentary on Michelle or her style.) I honestly can't even come up with anything about Sasha and Malia because they are too young, too adorable, and too off limits to even think of an example.
post #152 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
I've been trying to think of an example that would have a similar connotation with the men, but it's really difficult because of the inequality that exists between the sexes to begin with. If someone has sex with multiple partners, a man would be a stud and a woman would be a slut. A man gets accolades from his peers, a woman is shunned (at least publicly).
This was just as much of a shot at Alex Rodriguez, if not more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone needs to find a new interest, even Palin has excepted his apology.......
post #153 of 170
I think men can be sluts as well. I know in my circle of friends we call guys we don't like sluts among us all the time if they are sleeping with many women. In any case, I think it is our society's reaction that makes something a double standard. The word slut itself is negative, but someone may think of a woman who is promiscuous as a morally deprived woman while others may think of her as adventurous and one who likes to have fun. I never judge women who have promiscuous sex, if both parties are willing to have sex no strings attached, nothing wrong with that. Some people have that double standard, but I don't think everyone does. When my mom was trying to discipline me as a young lady, she used to say the usual well boys really want to get in your pants you should watch out for it, and I kept thinking: "...and what if I want to get into their pants as well" and I told her that and she kept pushing that it's different for boys and girls but I never accepted it and don't to this day.Of course I think everyone should teach their kids not to have sex until they are adults but what was really bugging me was that she didn't say "well in the near future you may feel the need to have sex your hormones may act up but just try not to share your feelings with guys you like until you are older", she implied that I'd be tricked into it. We know men and women have equal desires. It is people like that who spread this double standard, and my mom was VERY guilty of it although I didn't buy it thankfully. It is no different for men and women being promiscuous. It isn't jokes where women are called sluts that this double standard originates, it's people who create it and women are guilty of this included. I think that just by acknowledging it and saying that we shouldn't be called sluts because we're women we are contributing to preserving this double standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheylink View Post
This was just as much of a shot at Alex Rodriguez, if not more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes- this is a perfect example of how it's people's interpretation of the joke that made all the difference. No one said anything about Alex Rodriguez being called promiscuous because everyone automatically assumes he's going to be happy he was portrayed as a stud!! Come on that makes me mad. it's called gender inequality and unequal treatment!!
post #154 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I don't think anyone in this thread did say, "if things were the other way around", did they?
Actually, I did. If a similar comment were made about one of Obama's daughters or Biden's wife, I doubt the person who made the comment would keep their job, which is what should happen to Letterman, in my opinion. Or at least the writer who wrote the joke. It showed amazing insensitivity and a vile streak of smutty humor.
post #155 of 170
If A-Rod was upset or cared one way or another don't you think he would have spoke up by now. I think it is a safe bet to say he could care less if anyone thought he was having sex with a teenager in the dug out at the Yankee game.

His silence spoke for him.

Society always looks on a women who has multiple sex partners as a slut and a man as a stud, I don't see that double standard going away in my life time.
It is a double standard, it isn't right but it is reality.
post #156 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post

Yes- this is a perfect example of how it's people's interpretation of the joke that made all the difference. No one said anything about Alex Rodriguez being called promiscuous because everyone automatically assumes he's going to be happy he was portrayed as a stud!! Come on that makes me mad. it's called gender inequality and unequal treatment!!
Are u serious??!! I said a shot at Alex Rodriguez, not a notch in his belt.... DO you really think that even after his public promiscuity and scandalous divorce, admitted past use of enhancement drugs, that such a ridiculous, with out a question false and with no factual basis, makes him more of a stud? I know darn well that he doesn't see that, and I guarantee you that millions of Yankees fans didn't see that either, and they are the ones looking for a reason to hang him.
This link is partial and informative.....
http://primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/18948
My opinion is that someone made the best out of the situation they could, and it wasn't Letterman.....
post #157 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheylink View Post
Are u serious??!! I said a shot at Alex Rodriguez, not a notch in his belt.... DO you really think that even after his public promiscuity and scandalous divorce, admitted past use of enhancement drugs, that such a ridiculous, with out a question false and with no factual basis, makes him more of a stud? I know darn well that he doesn't see that, and I guarantee you that millions of Yankees fans didn't see that either, and they are the ones looking for a reason to hang him.
This link is partial and informative.....
http://primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/18948
My opinion is that someone made the best out of the situation they could, and it wasn't Letterman.....
Sounded like a "notch in his belt" comment to me.
post #158 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Sounded like a "notch in his belt" comment to me.
Who's? Why? What? If you are going to make such a bellicose statement, atleast take some time to state/defend your response.......
post #159 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
OMG!! I am sorry but I find this sexist.. I know it probably shows from my posts that I'm not exactly a Sarah Palin fan..but still isn't a father leaving his infant and children to go on a campaign the same thing??? Because, a lot of politicians have little children at home and leave them to go campaigning....it isn't something new. And I haven't heard anyone say that it goes against family values when a male does it...
There is nothing wrong with having your kids on the campaign trail within reason. However making them a perpetual photo-op sickens me. They are not cute kittens or puppies! This is especially true of the younger children. Like Clinton or not, they did right by Chelsea, and the proof is in the pudding.

As far as wandering off topic, Dave apologized but apparently that is not enough for some people. Some people want to use a few pieces of wood and some nails on him. His job is to be big-mouthed, so it occasionally gets out of hand. From my 27 year viewership, Dave is a gentleman.
post #160 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom of Franz View Post
There is nothing wrong with having your kids on the campaign trail within reason. However making them a perpetual photo-op sickens me. They are not cute kittens or puppies! This is especially true of the younger children. Like Clinton or not, they did right by Chelsea, and the proof is in the pudding.

As far as wandering off topic, Dave apologized but apparently that is not enough for some people. Some people want to use a few pieces of wood and some nails on him. His job is to be big-mouthed, so it occasionally gets out of hand. From my 27 year viewership, Dave is a gentleman.
I've seen some donkeys that are quite gentle too but they are still donkeys!

Ut0pia: You and your friends are truly amazing, if, as you say, you don't judge with double standards, but let me assure you - you would truly be in the minority. And, just to note, if you and your friends are referring to a male you know who has multiple partners as a slut, then you are being judgmental whether you see it that way or not.
post #161 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post

Ut0pia: You and your friends are truly amazing, if, as you say, you don't judge with double standards, but let me assure you - you would truly be in the minority. And, just to note, if you and your friends are referring to a male you know who has multiple partners as a slut, then you are being judgmental whether you see it that way or not.
Sure I agree that is judgemental, but I don't mean I generally label random guys as "sluts" just because they are promiscuous ..For example, one guy dumped one of my friend in a horrible and mean way and then dated a billion girls including flirting with me and all of my girlfriends..Clearly I don't like him because he dumped my friend not because he's dated so many girls and is promiscuous and we've called him slutty because he was mean to my friend. I'd do the same to a girl who has done something mean to me. But what I can do is accept a joke about a woman being called slutty and laugh about it because it doesn' thave to be so negative when it's used in a joking manner. Just like we know it's not a very good trait for a guy to be sleeping with many women but we still laugh about it when it's used as a joke all the time. The same can be done when women are called slutty, we can laugh about it because a woman's sexuality should not be taboo when you have guys flaunting how many women they slept with..We want equal rights but clearly we are not acting equal with women being so secretive and embarassed to talk about sex in general and guys being so aggressive and coming forward. I think we should be equal.
And honestly all of us on here are aware of the double standard, being conscious about it is the first step to letting go of it. That tells me that no my friends and I are not a minority.
post #162 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
Sure I agree that is judgemental, but I don't mean I generally label random guys as "sluts" just because they are promiscuous ..For example, one guy dumped one of my friend in a horrible and mean way and then dated a billion girls including flirting with me and all of my girlfriends..Clearly I don't like him because he dumped my friend not because he's dated so many girls and is promiscuous and we've called him slutty because he was mean to my friend. I'd do the same to a girl who has done something mean to me. But what I can do is accept a joke about a woman being called slutty and laugh about it because it doesn' thave to be so negative when it's used in a joking manner. Just like we know it's not a very good trait for a guy to be sleeping with many women but we still laugh about it when it's used as a joke all the time. The same can be done when women are called slutty, we can laugh about it because a woman's sexuality should not be taboo when you have guys flaunting how many women they slept with..We want equal rights but clearly we are not acting equal with women being so secretive and embarassed to talk about sex in general and guys being so aggressive and coming forward. I think we should be equal.
And honestly all of us on here are aware of the double standard, being conscious about it is the first step to letting go of it. That tells me that no my friends and I are not a minority.
I may be missing something but I find your post rather contradictory but that could just be my interpretation. I personally don't see men bragging about sex as being "aggressive and coming forward", nor women being circumspect as being "secretive and embarrassed". My own perception is that men need to prove themselves somehow by bragging about how sexually active/good they are when in reality I doubt they are any better than anyone else. Women usually don't need that confirmation of their prowess and thus don't need to talk about it. You've heard the old cliches about those that do or have don't need to prove it.

As the majority of our members are women it does not surprise me that most of us here are aware of the double standard. Women have been aware of the double standard for quite some time.
post #163 of 170
Utopia, I have to ask, how would you like it if Letterman had called you a slut on National TV.

There are many people out there that laugh at jokes that are unkind to others, it doesn't make it right.
post #164 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
My own perception is that men need to prove themselves somehow by bragging about how sexually active/good they are when in reality I doubt they are any better than anyone else. Women usually don't need that confirmation of their prowess and thus don't need to talk about it. You've heard the old cliches about those that do or have don't need to prove it.

As the majority of our members are women it does not surprise me that most of us here are aware of the double standard. Women have been aware of the double standard for quite some time.
By perception, do you mean repeated viewings of "Animal House", or actual men in a real world?

The media would like you to think there's this uber-sexual-machismo permeating all male social groups, likely because it makes for good comedic fodder, and because it's provocative. Personally, I've found a very self-deprecating tone amongst men when it comes to talk of such things, perhaps somewhat to combat the very stereotype you speak of, and perhaps in ironic response to the heightened sexual awareness of society today, and the inherent pressures that come with it.
post #165 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keycube View Post
By perception, do you mean repeated viewings of "Animal House", or actual men in a real world?

The media would like you to think there's this uber-sexual-machismo permeating all male social groups, likely because it makes for good comedic fodder, and because it's provocative. Personally, I've found a very self-deprecating tone amongst men when it comes to talk of such things, perhaps somewhat to combat the very stereotype you speak of, and perhaps in ironic response to the heightened sexual awareness of society today, and the inherent pressures that come with it.
Actually my own observations have been that it's more often the real young ones that need to brag about their conquests and the older (mid-life crisis) ones just trade their 50 year old wife in for 2-25 year olds so they can appear to be "seen" by the world as pretty darn attractive and potent. Neither of those 2 categories qualify as real men for me personally. We can always hope the young ones will grow up and learn better manners and fortunately most do.

Oh heck - here we go way off track again and I'm still a culprit. I promise - no more off topic replies.
post #166 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keycube View Post
By perception, do you mean repeated viewings of "Animal House", or actual men in a real world?

The media would like you to think there's this uber-sexual-machismo permeating all male social groups, likely because it makes for good comedic fodder, and because it's provocative. Personally, I've found a very self-deprecating tone amongst men when it comes to talk of such things, perhaps somewhat to combat the very stereotype you speak of, and perhaps in ironic response to the heightened sexual awareness of society today, and the inherent pressures that come with it.
What, "inherent pressures" would that be?
post #167 of 170
Folks, do you think you could get back on topic? Or would that just be ? It might be time to close this thread.
post #168 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
Folks, do you think you could get back on topic? Or would that just be ? It might be time to close this thread.
I personally think it's time to close the thread - everything has been said and Dave has apologized, Sarah accepted - it's over - the fat lady sang!
post #169 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I don't think anyone in this thread did say, "if things were the other way around", did they?
Yeah. It started with the 2nd post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45
You can bet your next paycheck that if the exact thing was said about Obama's family, Letterman would be in jail!
There are more, but I didn't want to take the time to look for them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
So, are you really saying that people should just be allowed to say anything vile, rude or mean spririted and other people should just suck it up and not call the person on their rotten behavior.


FTR, I do realize they have the "freedom" of speech to say whatever they want, that in no way, shape or form makes it right.
Of course not. I already stated that Letterman was out of line.
post #170 of 170
And on that note, as everything seems to have been said at least once, I'll close the thread.
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