New danger in the National Forest - not cougars, not bears - POT GROWERS!

That sort of thing has been a problem in Oregon for well over a decade. The "crops" are commonly spotted by helicopter when the forest service is looking for fires. Another problem is people who own large plots of land up in the woods and aren't around to properly take care of their property - the growers go onto obscure corners of private property and use it and then the real property owner gets into trouble.

It's not confined tot he US - we have it in France too - in fact the forest below me is used to grow pot and all the locals know it.

Well, IMO an easy way to end this is by legalizing it... It blows me away that pot is still not legal.

I agree. I think a 1/2 dozen plants would look very nice against our back fence.

I just read a reason recently on the "why nots" of legalizing it. My husband is for it due to the extra income the US could get, but I'm still not 100% sure about it.

For me, there is still a lot that I need to know about it and clarified from an impartial source.

There's no problem with it at all. In the long run, it's healthier than tobacco.

I wouldn't have a problem with its legalization until, say, some stoned SOB comes racing through my sister's subdivision and runs over my niece.

Yeah, I know, driving whilst "impaired" would still be a crime, but something about some stoner being given some measure of sanction for his behavior by the powers-that-be (for an activity that was illegal yesterday) kind of ticks me off, as it reeks of "Well, we're fighting a losing battle, so screw it, let's exploit the situation instead and see where it goes".

The hypocrisy of that, when countered with the sanctimonious government attitude regarding, say, the legalization of prostitution, just doesn't square with me. This is not a nation that has its bearings with regards to "morality", so lets at least make decisions on sound utilitarian grounds instead of (contrived) ethical ones.

That said, I'm not saying all that use marijuana are "stoners", and am not disparaging those that use it recreationally in a responsible fashion. Nor am I necessarily saying it should have ever have been illegal in the first place. I'm merely remarking on the devious manipulation of right and wrong.

Everything in this post can be applied to alcohol - and it's legal. I personally don't see any difference at all between the 2 except that I personally don't believe marijuana to be addictive as is alcohol. I grew up with an alcoholic father and I can guarantee that I would have preferred it if he had smoked marijuana instead. I know that some folks smoke a lot but I believe that is a choice not an addiction.

Yeah, hence all of my disclaimers I felt I needed to throw in. Marijuana is just yesterday's alcohol; prohibition and all that. Same situation. A lot of moral high-grounding with no way to really enforce the law, and thus, all of the dangers that come with the economics of illegal trafficking. You could plug alcohol into the equation and I'd likely feel the same way about it, if it had been demonized and rendered illegal for the last 70 years or whatever.

For practical purposes, I suppose I don't discern between alcohol and marijuana; or any such substance. If you're in the comforts of your own home and wish to escape and detach in that way, more power to you. The minute you do it in a public sphere, and even approach your personal limits, I wish you nothing but the worst.

There is an issue of responsibility here. I have no problem with drinking in public, i.e., bars, provided you do it responsibly and have someone sober doing any driving. The same could be applied to marijuana. In downtown Toronto there is at least one marijuana cafe I believe where folks who use it "medicinally" can go to buy it and smoke it. I'd personally like to see those cafes replace some of the drinking establishments.

The reason why pot is not legalised is simple. Smoking pot can (and does) lead to the use of much more powerful and damaging drugs. While I agree, that smoking pot may be no worse than lets say, having a few drinks, it can lead to people experimenting with other forms of drugs to get a much better or stronger high. I do believe this may be the #1 reason why pot is not legalised. Now, if they every do legalize pot, they better make sure they withdrawal ALL bans on exotic animal ownership too. I mean, what is more dangerous, my animals or someone driving while stoned on pot!!
On a side note, cougars are never a problem in our national forests, that is their home

With one exception. It's easy to test for alcohol impairment, but difficult to test for marijuana impairment, since it stays residually in your body for 30 days or so.

I actually disagree with this. I think pot smokers are more like weekend drinkers - they use it occasionally for recreation. I and many of my peers smoked pot when we were younger and not one of them went on to use hard drugs. If anything, most of us pot smokers were scared stiff of any harder drugs. It can be likened IMO to those who start drinking and end up becoming alcoholics. I think persons who try and use hard drugs are going to do it whether they smoked pot or not. I personally find that to say smoking leads to heavy drugs is akin to saying drinking leads to alcoholism. Some will, some won't - it really is part of the genetic makup and mentality of the person using the drugs or alcohol IMO.

No, I think this is the reason folks at the DEA will give, but I don't think it's a very good argument. It is true that something like 90% of heroin users previously smoked pot, but if you look at the percentage of pot smokers who move onto heroin it's only a very small percentage. So the idea that droves of people will be driven to shoot up heroin, smoke crack, or whatever in search of a bigger high just doesn't wash. I would also bet dollars to doughnuts that you would see the same type of relationship between alcohol and hard drugs.

If you've never seen it before , I recommend watching Penn and Teller's Bull**** episode about the war on drugs. It addresses this and many other objections about legalizing drugs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMdFiw8bZHc

As far as marijuana vs. alcohol, it's a scientific fact that alcohol increases aggressive behavior - fights, wife beating, etc - in many people. Marijuana does just the opposite. Stoners just don't go around picking fights. Marijuana was outlawed for racial reasons (targeting Mexican workers). My opinion on the reason why it's still illegal is because it lacks the lobbying power that the big alcohol producers have. Of course, that could be because the marijuana lobbying groups are all too stoned to care about it.

Let's not forget all the medicinal uses, too (although the big pharmaceutical companies want us to).

I guarantee you there are many more cases of DUI because of alcohol than marijuana.

No question about it. My point though, is that to have what's illegal today be rendered legal tomorrow, and then have negative circumstances resonate due to its sudden legality (especially if it's due to "profit motive" on the part of the government), could be difficult to stomach under certain circumstances.

Again, the parallel with alcohol seems to be an exact one, if you're looking at prohibition transitioning into legalization with an excise tax (which is what the hypothetical issue is here). It's just that prohibition was so long ago, no one remembers what it was like for alcohol to be taboo, and just takes its current legality for granted.

I actually don't have a beef with the legality of marijuana, per se.

EDIT: After thinking about it, I may have missed your point completely (no shocker there! ). Are you saying that the far greater number of DUI's is due to alcohol being legal (and thus, readily available)? A different argument, but worth pondering.

Well, this is easy to explain. Alcohol is legal and easier to get. You get stopped for being high on pot, you will not only be charged with OVI/DUI, you will be charged with possession of a controlled substance. I never want to see pot legal. Not that I am really against anyone from using it, but we have enough idiots on the road as it is. People can not drive with a cell phone stuck to their ear, let alone a stoner high on pot. I find it strange, that many people would like to see pot made legal, but are happy when there is a ban put in place on regular cigarette smoking. I don't like to see anything baned, but we just don't need anything else that makes people act stupid. We have enough of that with alcohol.

I think you would be amazed at how easy pot is to get if you want it. The chances of being charged with possession of a controlled substance would only be if you have any "extra" with you in the car. As another poster said, there really is no way to measure how much is in your system or even if you have been smoking. I've known folks who acted more stoned when they were sober than stoners. I certainly have no argument with your cell phone in the ear comment. 3 nights in a row I was almost hit by someone merging onto the highway while talking on their cell phone. I don't see that as anywhere near the same as DUI. As for the people who are happy to see cigarettes banned, those folks probably never smoked anything in their lives, especially pot. My husband and I both quit smoking in January and he is adamant that tobacco companies should not be allowed to sell cigarettes. He saw my brother on oxygen 24/7 in our living room and me in the hospital for 9 days with COPD issues and it certainly put him off cigarettes. I, on the other hand, think it is up to the individual. I liked smoking and I only gave it up because I had to.

As for people acting stupid, it doesn't take marijuana to make some people act stupid so I don't think it's right to blame pot for their stupidity.

Naturally, it's all in the eye of the beholder. As you well know, there are many folks that think it is stupidity to keep exotic animals but I don't want to see it banned for responsible people like you. There are responsible drinkers and there are responsible pot users. It's wrong to paint everyone with the same brush and ban something for everyone because of a few idiots and I think you would agree with that thinking John.

LOL, you crack me up.

I agree. I think pot smokers actually drive under the speed limit due to being so mellow.

Or so you've heard, eh?

It is absolutely ridiculous that weed is illegal. It is a plant!! You pick a flower and smoke it. No stoner is out there killing people because the need more weed! You have to smoke 2x your body weight to OD Do you have any idea how much weed that is??? You would probably just pass out after a lb! It is NOT a gate way drug! If you want to do drugs you are going to do it with or with out pot! It is just stupid. Make it legal and tax it. Get these people out of jail and prison for a NON VIOLENT drug crime. Stop waisting tax payers money over weed! Legalize weed and stock in Freto Lay will go up

MJ is no more a gate way drug than alcohol. Alcohol is worse, it lowers your inhibitions far more than weed. MJ is also not physically addictive, alcohol is. The perscription drugs that doctors have no problem handing out to us all for pain are far more addictive that the two of those combined, and the biggest threat for kids. Oxycodone anyone? Synthetic morphine, and legal.
Be a little old lady growing a plant in your yard to help you with pain management, your going to be in trouble, though you are out in the sunshine and geting excersize. Be that same lady stoned off her butt on presciptions meds starring at the TV, good for big Pharma!
The list can go on and on about the good things Marajuana can do, but it has this huge stigma attached to it. And happens to be easy to grow for those with even the the brownest of thumbs, can't have people producing their own drugs for pain, that would just be wrong!
To Yosimite, hee hee! The plants are quite beautiful, like christmas trees if grown to their natural shape. Stink like skunks though! (if done right)
I know this form *ahem* friends that have grown.

So one benefit of MJ being illegal...

Today in the city where I live, police were able to raid a club where many dangerous gang members were because they smelled MJ from the club on the street.

Many of those caught had prior violations and warrants.

Because they opted to crack down on the pot smoking, they were able to catch a bunch of criminals.

Not the best argument, but an interesting anecdote.

I am not kidding!

People are going to smoke weed if it is legal or not so why are we waisting time and money on putting stoners in jail when we could be taxing it and making money.