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Case for Christ

post #1 of 67
6/7/09 at 11:58am
Thread Starter 
So I was wondering if anyone has read this book?

http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Jo.../dp/0310209307

A friend of mine was telling me about it last night and he boyfriend was reading it to find out what he believed. This man who wrote the book was an atheist and his wife was a Christian. He went out and did all this research trying to prove his wife wrong. Long story short, after all his time and effort, he realized he COULDN'T prove her wrong.

With everything that has happened to me recently, I have been doubting my faith and need something to help me figure things out. My dad and sister are Christians and my dad is even going to school to become a minister. I have even read his paper he had to write on finding his calling. I feel this would be a good book for me to read. It is a series but I want to know what others think that have read this.

Thanks guys!
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post #2 of 67
6/7/09 at 12:26pm
I have not read the book, but I will offer my opinions of faith.
It is such a personal thing, no one in my view can tell you what to believe, it must come from the heart. Religion is based in ancient beliefs, there are many stories to be told, I reccomend reading the works of Joseph Campbell, the parallels that many religions share is so fascinating.
I also went through many things, still am, and I question my faith, it is only human to do such. I am not Christian, I am Pagan, but I do believe Jesus was real, a man who saw things a different way, and was killed for it. I love the parables, so many lessons to be learned from that. (I have read the Bible cover to cover though I did skip all the begots)
Becoming Pagan sort of evolved for me. I was not comfortable with the concept of God as a male entity sitting on some celestial throne. I believe in the duality of the universe, dark and light, yin and yang, balancing powers at work around us always. Karma, what you put into this life you get back, good or bad. I sometimes have a hard time explaining this to Christians, not believing in one ultimate power.
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post #3 of 67
6/7/09 at 2:07pm
Have not read the book, but you are making me interested now in reading it. I already have a very strong faith in God and Jesus Christ, but I'm sure this book will help you out a lot.

You might also consider talking to a local pastor about your questions and finding someone that will mentor you in your walk in faith and Christ.
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post #4 of 67
6/8/09 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscarsmommy View Post
So I was wondering if anyone has read this book?

http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Jo.../dp/0310209307

A friend of mine was telling me about it last night and he boyfriend was reading it to find out what he believed. This man who wrote the book was an atheist and his wife was a Christian. He went out and did all this research trying to prove his wife wrong. Long story short, after all his time and effort, he realized he COULDN'T prove her wrong.

With everything that has happened to me recently, I have been doubting my faith and need something to help me figure things out. My dad and sister are Christians and my dad is even going to school to become a minister. I have even read his paper he had to write on finding his calling. I feel this would be a good book for me to read. It is a series but I want to know what others think that have read this.

Thanks guys!
I have not read that but a great book I have read is:

The Christ Commission by Og Mandino

Awesome book

http://www.nicd.us/TheChristCommission.doc

Quote:
I first recommend you read from the Bible, either Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John prior to reading Og's book. This pre-work will pay off big time. If you are familiar with the JFK assassination, you will also remember the Warren Commission. The sole reason for the commission was to dismiss the possibility of a conspiracy to kill President Kennedy. With that premise, "The Christ Commission" has as its primary goal, to dismiss the reports of Jesus rising from the dead.
A few pages into the first chapter, the main character within the book is transported back in time, to 30 years post crucifixion. He then interviews, sometimes it is like a cross examination, the prominent people involved in Jesus' life, subsequent death, and crucifixion. He interviews, Pontius Pilate, James, Jesus' brother, Joseph of Arimathea, Caiphas, Luke, John, and many others. Unlike the Warren Commission, the Christ Commission leaves no remaining questions to be asked, and no answers second guessed. The commission is ruthless, and without compromise- hence it gives us a full report. The reader is put into the position of feeling like they are actually right there with the commission. This is mainly so because it follows the scriptures very closely, and brings the characters to life in a most unusual setting and way. The rest of the review is in your hands. You will be amazed at the outcome.
Awesome, awesome book.
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post #5 of 67
6/8/09 at 11:11am
I have not read the book but I do find the idea interesting.

Years ago someone at work loaned me a book which tried to "prove" that there is a God. The gist of it was that since we have some notion of right and wrong, this has to come from somwhere and that can only be God. Needless to say I wasn't convinced.

To my thinking there are three great questions that we humans cannot answer:

1) Where did we come from?
2) Why do we exist?
3) What happens to our consciousness when we die?

Faith provides an answer to those questions. But it's called "faith" for a reason. You cannot prove or disprove it, you either have faith in it or you don't.
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post #6 of 67
6/8/09 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
Faith provides an answer to those questions. But it's called "faith" for a reason. You cannot prove or disprove it, you either have faith in it or you don't.
exactly what I was thinking

Still might be an interesting read
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post #7 of 67
6/8/09 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
I have not read the book but I do find the idea interesting.

Years ago someone at work loaned me a book which tried to "prove" that there is a God. The gist of it was that since we have some notion of right and wrong, this has to come from somwhere and that can only be God. Needless to say I wasn't convinced.

To my thinking there are three great questions that we humans cannot answer:

1) Where did we come from?
2) Why do we exist?
3) What happens to our consciousness when we die?

Faith provides an answer to those questions. But it's called "faith" for a reason. You cannot prove or disprove it, you either have faith in it or you don't.
Great post.

I'm a devout agnostic, yet have a deeply-rooted faith in "something" transcending man. Probably because I look at half the crap we do as a society and can't bring myself to believe that we're at the top of any sort of developmental chain.

When cloning began getting a lot of press years ago, I came up with something called "The Doughnut Conundrum". It revolved around the scenario at work where someone brings doughnuts in and ultimately there's one left, and out of collective courtesy, it usually sits there all day. The conundrum revolves around the notion that a clone, in my opinion, would act only on instinct, not being in possession of the cerebral "conduit" to God that's necessary to make ethical/altruistic decisions. And thus, it would always eat the last doughnut.

To me, if a cloned human "ate the last doughnut", that would be a potentially serious hit against the existence of God. I don't want to believe right and wrong can be solely determined by experience, environment, and synapses. I need there to be something more.
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post #8 of 67
6/8/09 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keycube View Post
Great post.

I'm a devout agnostic, yet have a deeply-rooted faith in "something" transcending man. Probably because I look at half the crap we do as a society and can't bring myself to believe that we're at the top of any sort of developmental chain.

When cloning began getting a lot of press years ago, I came up with something called "The Doughnut Conundrum". It revolved around the scenario at work where someone brings doughnuts in and ultimately there's one left, and out of collective courtesy, it usually sits there all day. The conundrum revolves around the notion that a clone, in my opinion, would act only on instinct, not being in possession of the cerebral "conduit" to God that's necessary to make ethical/altruistic decisions. And thus, it would always eat the last doughnut.

To me, if a cloned human "ate the last doughnut", that would be a potentially serious hit against the existence of God. I don't want to believe right and wrong can be solely determined by experience, environment, and synapses. I need there to be something more.
You must not have been to my workplace! Although we are not cloned, the last doughnut is as good as gone if someone has the good fortune to get their hands on it!

I think that right vs wrong is based on experiences and environment and being taught by one's parents. Even animals like wolves have a societal code that teaches them "right vs wrong".
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post #9 of 67
6/8/09 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WELDRWOMN View Post
You must not have been to my workplace! Although we are not cloned, the last doughnut is as good as gone if someone has the good fortune to get their hands on it!
I thought the same thing!

Although, around here it would be the "Birthday Cake Conundrum". Sometimes there is a teeny tiny sliver of cake left at the end of the day, but no one wants to take the last piece. But I don't know how much of that is the "moral" dilemma of not wanting to take the last piece and how much is the amount of frosting left on that last corner piece that is overwhelming if you've been eating cake all day.

The thing with "faith" in anything, especially a higher power such as the Christian God, is that it can neither be proven nor disproven. The only religion that could be theoretically disproven is that Zeus and all the other Greek Gods and Goddesses were never found on Mount Olympus. Most other higher beings exist on some mystical plain that is not visible or accessible by man. So you'd have no more luck proving the existance of Christ as you would proving the existance of Isis or Osiris. Nor would you truly be able to prove their non-existance. It's all a matter of faith, as has been stated already.
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post #10 of 67
6/8/09 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WELDRWOMN View Post
Although we are not cloned...
Sure. That's what all the clones say.
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post #11 of 67
6/8/09 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keycube View Post
Sure. That's what all the clones say.
Oh NO! I've been found out
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post #12 of 67
6/8/09 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
The thing with "faith" in anything, especially a higher power such as the Christian God, is that it can neither be proven nor disproven. The only religion that could be theoretically disproven is that Zeus and all the other Greek Gods and Goddesses were never found on Mount Olympus. Most other higher beings exist on some mystical plain that is not visible or accessible by man. So you'd have no more luck proving the existance of Christ as you would proving the existance of Isis or Osiris. Nor would you truly be able to prove their non-existance. It's all a matter of faith, as has been stated already.
Actually, Jesus Christ is a historical figure whose existence can be proven.
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post #13 of 67
6/8/09 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WELDRWOMN View Post
Actually, Jesus Christ is a historical figure whose existence can be proven.
As a historical figure, yes. Not as the Son of God.
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post #14 of 67
6/8/09 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
As a historical figure, yes. Not as the Son of God.
Right, that is where faith comes into the picture.
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post #15 of 67
6/8/09 at 3:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
Although, around here it would be the "Birthday Cake Conundrum".
It's similar here, but different. The only reason no one takes the last slice of cake where I work is because whoever gets the last one is obligated to wash the cake dish.
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post #16 of 67
6/8/09 at 6:53pm
No one but Jesus has come back from the dead on his own Jesus IS the son of God. He fufilled the prophasies in the Old Testement 100%
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post #17 of 67
6/8/09 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
No one but Jesus has come back from the dead on his own Jesus IS the son of God. He fufilled the prophasies in the Old Testement 100%
But if he ascended into heaven, as the Bible says, then there is no body left on earth and thus no way to scientifically prove that he is/was the Son of God. And with no bones (whether not there or not found), there is no way to DISprove it either. It's all faith, either way you look at it.

Your statement is all faith based, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. But there is simply no way to prove that as fact or fiction.
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post #18 of 67
6/9/09 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
It's similar here, but different. The only reason no one takes the last slice of cake where I work is because whoever gets the last one is obligated to wash the cake dish.
Unfortunately, we have a similar thing with the coffee pot. If someone drinks the last of the pot, they would feel obligated to make another pot, so they'll leave about 3 drops in the pot. Then the next person comes along, sees that there is just a little bit of (typically burned and nasty) coffee left and walk away. Sometimes the coffee pot will sit like that for a couple of hours until someone finally decides that they want coffee enough to make a fresh pot.
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post #19 of 67
6/9/09 at 8:46am
Just a quick shout-out to all of the christians; good on you for being so impassioned in your beliefs that it's such an essential part of who you are...in spite of the fact that there will always be those that try to refute that very essence. Usually they try and hide behind "science". There will always be those that need to look "more right", in the face of there not even being an obtainable definitive answer.

I always somehow feel bad when religious threads even remotely project a hint of denouncing that which makes someone feel whole. Even when it's completely objective and logical, it seems so easy to rain on someone's parade with these issues. I'm not talking about this thread necessarily; I just always feel bad that christians have no weaponry with which to defend themselves other than how good the notion of Jesus makes them feel. And yet, I'm so very envious of that.

I've been baptized, and have tried so hard to "get it" when it comes to christianity. I have obstacles that I can't explain. But I'm always impressed by those that are inspired from without, rather than within.
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post #20 of 67
6/9/09 at 10:39am
Once you believe in your heart, the doubts will vanish. Many do struggle their entire lifetime.

And everyone WILL spend eternity in one place or the other. Your choice as to where before you leave - there will be no other chances

Question to some that have posted. For the non-believers or the ones not sure - are you willing to read the book mentioned to find out the answers?
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post #21 of 67
6/9/09 at 1:15pm
The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith are both excellent books.

But, I have to completely recommend Tim Keller's The Reason for God: Belief in an Age of Skepticism.

Read that alongside C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity. Both completely reinforced my faith.
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post #22 of 67
6/9/09 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Question to some that have posted. For the non-believers or the ones not sure - are you willing to read the book mentioned to find out the answers?
Hi,

not really- personally I'd rather read Immanuel Kant ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Kant ), which I haven't gotten around to doing yet. I think that would be a more interesting and challenging option, as his moral philosophy suits me better.

regards,

christine
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post #23 of 67
6/9/09 at 3:00pm
This book sounds interesting. Although I think many things in the bible can be disproven through science ( I know many people choose not to believe in science either and trust the bible over it but i'm speaking generally), it is pretty obvious to me that such things as how did life originate will never be answered by science and there are no other alternative answers besides what's found in scriptures, so I mean if he's trying to say that you can't disprove the fact that God created the earth in 7 days then that's pretty obvious to me, of course you can't disprove that. It would be interesting to me if he actually tries to disprove the smaller questions and actually finds flaws in scientifically accepted theories.
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post #24 of 67
6/9/09 at 4:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Once you believe in your heart, the doubts will vanish. Many do struggle their entire lifetime.

And everyone WILL spend eternity in one place or the other. Your choice as to where before you leave - there will be no other chances

Question to some that have posted. For the non-believers or the ones not sure - are you willing to read the book mentioned to find out the answers?
Now this where I get all up in your face. (for lack of a better term, I don't mean it to be mean ) So we only go to two places I assume you mean Heaven or Hell? What of the many beliefs in reincarnation? The Christians who believe in Purgatory. What of people who do not believe in the Christian God, and there are many many, that do nothing but good their entire lives and only help that are of differing faiths. They are going to be sentenced to eternial damnation simply for not believing Jesus is their savior? Isn't it stated in the Bible, "In my Fathers house, there are many rooms" I choose that to mean, and interpretation of the Bible is so subjective, that there is room for all of us.
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post #25 of 67
6/9/09 at 4:28pm
Yes there are many rooms in Heaven for the believers. I don't believe in reincarnation - only Heaven and Hell. God would like for all of us to be with him - he has from the beginning; but sadly that will not be....and its in Revelation that all will not be in Heaven;............however, there WILL come a day where "every knee will bow and declare Christ is King" - that goes for Satan, his followers and everyone that exists.
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post #26 of 67
6/9/09 at 4:37pm
As a non-believer, I would read this book, but not to "find faith" it would simply be interesting to me, same way the stories in the Bible are interesting to me.

as for one of 2 places I'll go, I'm not worried about going to hell because I don't believe in it
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post #27 of 67
6/9/09 at 4:37pm
When I was an athiest, my dad gave me a copy of "The Case for Christ" and I did not care for it. You may get something out of it, so I won't discourage you, but I really did not care for it. I was skeptical of it coming in however. I did enjoy reading CS Lewis, Donald Miller, and especially Henri Nouwen. Nouwen's "Life of the Beloved" is still one of my favorite books:

http://www.amazon.com/Life-Beloved-S.../dp/0824511840
http://www.csec.org/csec/sermon/Nouwen_3502.htm

What I like about Life of the Beloved is that Nouwen examines how painful and joyful a faith journey is- how deeply personal it is. Unlike "The Case for Christ", "Life of the Beloved" is not an apologetic work- meaning it isn't trying to convert anyone. Nouwen shares his faith experience and his theology.

Donald Miller is another favorite- especially the last three books:

http://www.donaldmillerwords.com/searching.php

first chapters:
http://www.donaldmillerwords.com/resources.php
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post #28 of 67
6/9/09 at 4:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Once you believe in your heart, the doubts will vanish. Many do struggle their entire lifetime.

And everyone WILL spend eternity in one place or the other. Your choice as to where before you leave - there will be no other chances

Question to some that have posted. For the non-believers or the ones not sure - are you willing to read the book mentioned to find out the answers?
I'm not a non-believer, but I wouldn't necessarily call myself a Christian either. I do think that you do know in your soul what seems most right for you as far as beliefs go. Religions tend to be more cookie cutter, telling you what you must believe if you want to get into heaven. I don't think the answer is that straightforward, and I don't think I'm going to read it in any book written by man. I consider myself spiritual, but I haven't ever found a religion that totally works for me. I'm a constant seeker on the path of truth so, yes, if there is any book out there that has "answers," I would definitely read it.
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post #29 of 67
6/9/09 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Yes there are many rooms in Heaven for the believers. I don't believe in reincarnation - only Heaven and Hell. God would like for all of us to be with him - he has from the beginning; but sadly that will not be....and its in Revelation that all will not be in Heaven;............however, there WILL come a day where "every knee will bow and declare Christ is King" - that goes for Satan, his followers and everyone that exists.
and what about all of the muslims, buddhists , jews, etc where will they go? I mean if christianity is the one true religion, all of the others are wrong and there are only 2 places heaven and hell what will happen to the people who didn't do anything evil, were compassionate and lived not too differently from a good christian, but didn't even hear of Jesus Christ were born into a different religion, where will they go?
Oh and also do you believe that hell is temporary, like you are sentenced to a certain time in hell depending on how evil you were?
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post #30 of 67
6/9/09 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Yes there are many rooms in Heaven for the believers. I don't believe in reincarnation - only Heaven and Hell. God would like for all of us to be with him - he has from the beginning; but sadly that will not be....and its in Revelation that all will not be in Heaven;............however, there WILL come a day where "every knee will bow and declare Christ is King" - that goes for Satan, his followers and everyone that exists.
So me, as a person who has tried their best to be a responsible caring individulal, treat all people, animals and all growing things with respect,to hell, simply because I do not belive as you do?
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