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Breeding Discussion - Page 2

post #31 of 42
I almost feel as if this is a Cat Breeder's Anonymous meeting... Hello, my name is Sohni and I got a Egyptian Mau stud first!

My experience was through emails back and forth between me and a few different Mau breeders. I didn't have the advice from this board, or else my path would probably have been much different. These breeders advised me to get a male first, and then find a couple of suitable females. So I did. Then I found this board and was lucky to find a few mentors.

Luckily, my male Mau has a decent pedigree and some good points so I am able to work with some of the best Mau lines in N.A.

I will agree that males are more than a little tough to keep. Tsekani is a huge love bug, but I can't let him have free run of the house. I followed him one day to keep an eye on him, and he whipped around and sprayed my couch before I had any time to react at all. He only has one female to keep him happy right now.
post #32 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohni View Post
I almost feel as if this is a Cat Breeder's Anonymous meeting... Hello, my name is Sohni and I got a Egyptian Mau stud first!.
Finding your way as a breeder must be quite difficult in the beginning, so it's probably a good idea to listen to as many different oppinions on breeding and have as many discussions about different ways to go about starting your own cattery as possible.


A bit OT, I'm chatting to another person (unfortunately in a German Forum) about her plans to breed Mau's.

She's found an even more bizar way to start breeding Mau's by buying a female "Mau" (the daughter of street cats off the streets of Kairo) from an Egyptian Ex-pat living in Germany, and is/ was thinking of getting her stud from EMRO in Kairo. Of course none of these cats have a pedigree ..... I think she'll have a hell of a time getting these cats registerd as Egyptian Mau (if she can find a breeders society that still has an open class for this breed). Do you know of any breeder who's actually done this recently?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohni View Post
My experience was through emails back and forth between me and a few different Mau breeders. I didn't have the advice from this board, or else my path would probably have been much different. These breeders advised me to get a male first, and then find a couple of suitable females. So I did. Then I found this board and was lucky to find a few mentors.
And again I've got the same question for you: What reasons were you given to start with a boy and not a girl?

What would you have done different looking back now?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohni View Post
Luckily, my male Mau has a decent pedigree and some good points so I am able to work with some of the best Mau lines in N.A. !

Congrats! Any chance we could see some piccies of your boy?

regards,

Christine
post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh27 View Post

She's found an even more bizar way to start breeding Mau's by buying a female "Mau" (the daughter of street cats off the streets of Kairo) from an Egyptian Ex-pat living in Germany, and is/ was thinking of getting her stud from EMRO in Kairo. Of course none of these cats have a pedigree ..... I think she'll have a hell of a time getting these cats registerd as Egyptian Mau (if she can find a breeders society that still has an open class for this breed). Do you know of any breeder who's actually done this recently?
Oh wow, that is really risky. Imports are not meant to serve as any easy way to obtain breeding cats. I worked with imports with the Turkish Van breed, and I would never do an import x import match. Imports serve to expand the gene pool, and unless a new breeder is working with other experts they should be completely avoided. You have to breed imports to the best lines available to set type and correct faults. The Mau as a breed has become more refined over the years, and there is no way that two randomly bred cats are going to produce kittens that meet the standard. Even the first generation or two is unlikely to be productive.

CFA allows imports to be registered, but they can't be shown until the third generation. However, there are several steps that must first be taken for the cats to be approved. One also has to be very careful about introducing undesirable traits to the breed, such as white spotting, points, and dilute.

I also don't reccomend trying to "back-door" the cats into a minority registration association that makes things easier. It could backfire on her in the end, as more established breeders may view the pedigrees with suspicion.

Since she already has a cat from Cairo, I suggest she get in contact with some of the established Mau breeders. This way they can at least tell her if she has something that can be used. . . or something that will cause nothing but headaches.
post #34 of 42
I don't have a lot of pictures of Tsekani it seems. I'd like to get some professional ones taken someday. I brought him to two shows, and he did really well at the ACFA show, coming in third best cat. He has since developed a nasty spraying habit, and I am hesitant to show him much more. I was planning to concentrate on showing my new kittens instead.





In terms of advice to get a male first, I think they were trying to make a sale. But they did say that the 'heart' of your cattery is your star male. I have since had my mind changed, and believe that the quality of the females you own is just as, if not more, important.

I wouldn't change the path that I took, though. I learned a lot along the way and that is the best way for me to grow. If I am mentored/advised along, I don't become as passionate as when I learn on my own. I am MORE than thrilled to have mentors now, but I learned as much from my mistakes.

Judging from how important lines are to the top Mau breeders in North America, I would think that introducing 'street-cat' lines would be an uphill battle.
post #35 of 42
I plan on starting with females now.
I have to find a good show quality alter sphynx first.
I will start looking for one in the next few months.
I will be showing the new sphynx and Cleo together.
Then I will show for at least to years.
I am not rushing into anything.
post #36 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisCat View Post
Oh wow, that is really risky. Imports are not meant to serve as any easy way to obtain breeding cats. I worked with imports with the Turkish Van breed, and I would never do an import x import match. Imports serve to expand the gene pool, and unless a new breeder is working with other experts they should be completely avoided. You have to breed imports to the best lines available to set type and correct faults. The Mau as a breed has become more refined over the years, and there is no way that two randomly bred cats are going to produce kittens that meet the standard. Even the first generation or two is unlikely to be productive.

CFA allows imports to be registered, but they can't be shown until the third generation. However, there are several steps that must first be taken for the cats to be approved. One also has to be very careful about introducing undesirable traits to the breed, such as white spotting, points, and dilute.

I also don't reccomend trying to "back-door" the cats into a minority registration association that makes things easier. It could backfire on her in the end, as more established breeders may view the pedigrees with suspicion.

Since she already has a cat from Cairo, I suggest she get in contact with some of the established Mau breeders. This way they can at least tell her if she has something that can be used. . . or something that will cause nothing but headaches.


Yes,

that's the general direction we're gently trying to convince her of . I'm no Mau expert but I doubt that her girl will be good enough to allow her to register her. It would be best if she were to neuter her girl and try to find a German Mau breeder as a mentor- and only start with foundation cats when she's got enough experience with breeding Mau's. We'll see what happens....

regards,

christine
post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohni View Post
I don't have a lot of pictures of Tsekani it seems. I'd like to get some professional ones taken someday. I brought him to two shows, and he did really well at the ACFA show, coming in third best cat. He has since developed a nasty spraying habit, and I am hesitant to show him much more. I was planning to concentrate on showing my new kittens instead.




Ooooh, he really is a cutie , thanks for showing your boy to us Iprefer cat breeds that are natural looking


Very adorable nose, if I may say so .... and those tummy spots

You should definately have some professional photos taken


regards,

christine
post #38 of 42
I have to say that I understand very well what StefanZ is talking about. We both live in a smallish countries where the amount of cats is a lot fewer than in US and the catteries are small. For example we don't keep stud houses in our yards, and almost all of the cats live as pets and family members amongst their humans. To avoid high percentage of inbreeding, we have to hang on to those males which can be left unaltered, and often import cats from another countries.

I'm planning on starting breeding, and at the moment I only have males: one neuter, one stud (actually 2 but the other one doesn't live with me anymore because my neuter hates him..), and one male kitten.

Why did I end up having males? Well.. I actually was looking for a female at first, but when I laid my eyes on Utu, my neutered male, I fell in love and there was no way out..
I was going to bury my breeding plans for several years and got another male to keep company for the first one and to go to shows with. He was the best from his litter and was sold with breeding rights, so I ended up having a stud. He doesn't spray at all, and is very kind and loving kitty.
My other stud, who lives with my best friend, is very handsome and gorgeous, his only fault is a bit too pale eye color. His color is very rare here and his previous owner sold him because she couldn't find suitable female for him. When he still was living here, he was spraying a lot, but stopped it completely now that he doesn't have any cat company.
And finally the kitten. He is my other stud's son, and a payment from 'borrowing' my stud for his breeder. If a suitable female kitten would have been born, I would have taken her.

I'm currently looking for a new cat, but the breed and color I have chosen are quite rare and we don't have any breeders of that breed (or color) here in Finland. So I had to contact a breeder in Germany, and now we are waiting to see how the mating is going and if her female gets pregnant, and if a kitten of desired color and quality is born. This color is so rare, that I've told the breeder that if a female isn't born, I'm willing to take a male.
I'm still young (if 24 counts as young), so I have all the time in the world to wait for the right female to appear. In the meanwhile I'll keep studs or show alters and try to learn as much as possible about the breeds I've chosen (British Short- and Longhairs, Scottish Folds, in colors silver and points).

Sorry about the extra long post..
post #39 of 42
To say stud boys should be kept as family members is really pretty unrealistic in most cases IMO. Stud boys are dangerous, they can be fine and friendly one moment and attack you the next.
I am always mindful when around studs, they are not predicatable at all. I know the sweetest most sooky boy and just the other week he tried to go his owner, luckily she had a broom in hand. Once the moment is passed, he's sooky once again. But to live with that indoors, roaming free in the house - not a chance!

With most boys spraying, they cannot be kept inside. And girls are kept indoors, you cannot have the boy around the girls.
post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymotus View Post
To say stud boys should be kept as family members is really pretty unrealistic in most cases IMO. Stud boys are dangerous, they can be fine and friendly one moment and attack you the next.

With most boys spraying, they cannot be kept inside. And girls are kept indoors, you cannot have the boy around the girls.
I've never heard about a stud attacking their owners! Mine have never done anything like that and they are both 2 years old, they do roam free in the house, and I know several people who own studs and the only problems are spraying and yowling that I've heard of.
I do understand that if the studs who attack people have lived their lives in a stud house, they aren't so used to having people around and it could be causing the aggressive behavior.

We also don't have the possibility to keep the studs outdoors as it gets very cold during winter. Obviously it is almost impossible for a breeder to have both females and males indoors, but if they have enough space for them (so that they can be kept separated), they will have both sexes. I think that is pushing it, and my males are going to be neutered when I find a female.
post #41 of 42
Doubt it's a common occurrence, but it can and does happen, most probably to be explained as redirected aggression - something to always be mindful of when dealing with entire boys.

Stud boys outdoors get plenty of attention and handling, it's a priority for most to keep their boys very happy. They are not simply put outdoors and forgotten.

Of course hormonal outburst are not just limited to the boys, I know of calling girls who get a bit toey with their owners and can bite, scratch etc.
post #42 of 42
I have never been attacked, but I did see my stud go after another cat once. My sister's spayed, diabetic, cat was staying with me and she escaped the room I had her isolated in. She went downstairs with me in pursuit, but before I could get her, Tsekani saw her and he launched himself at the side of his cage. I have never seen a cat move that fast ever, and he was dead serious. He is the sweetest cat ever to people, and to Sohni, my male neuter, but he didn't like something about Rose. I was thinking maybe that because she was spayed and smelled wrong because of her diabetes.. Anyway, I agree that studs can be unpredictable, but I would never imagine that he would attack me.

My boy lives inside, but in a 10 by 12 foot cage with Sohni, and they are best friends. I let them both out whenever I can and they get attention daily.
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