History - what gives?

lil maggie

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I went to the show early today with a gal pal of mine to see the movie Valkyrie. My GF went because she has a crush on Tom Cruise, I went because I love history. All in all, it was a pretty good movie and the popcorn and milk duds were great!


As seen in previews, it's a historical thriller set in Nazi Germany during World War II which tells of the 1944 plot by German officers to assassinate Adolf Hitler. Of course, there's more to it but I'm not writing this to give a synopsis of the movie.

The movie is pretty much historically accurate which was suprising since most movies love to add extras to make it more exciting. After the movie was over, my GF turns to me with an astonished look and says..."you mean Hitler didn't get assassinated?" For a moment I thought I was on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno and it was a Jaywalking skit.
She was serious. Here I thought the average person on the street knew the circumstances of how Hitler died.

My GF went to college for 1 year and told me she never learned about world wars in school. I'm curious...if you don't major in history, do they not teach any history that's in the 20th century? I would think learning about 2 world wars would be pretty darned important
 

clixpix

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Oh come on...I'm sure her high school history curriculum included "wars"...she just didn't pay attention!


I'm always surprised when someone doesn't know something like that which would be considered "common knowledge" IMO. I'd like to think those Jaywalking people are faking it. They're probably not, but I like to think so.
 

kluchetta

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gosh, I'm pretty sure even my 16 year old knows that. But I will admit, the longer you've been out of school, the harder it is to remember that stuff.
 
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lil maggie

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Yep, my first thought was that she doesn't remember.
I love to watch Jaywalking because whether those people are faking it or for real, it always makes me feel like such a genius
 

kluchetta

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Originally Posted by lil maggie

Yep, my first thought was that she doesn't remember.
I love to watch Jaywalking because whether those people are faking it or for real, it always makes me feel like such a genius
Ha ha, sort of the opposite of watching Jeopardy!
 

strange_wings

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^Jeopardy always leaves me wondering how some of those people get on the show and why they goof up such easy questions.

Originally Posted by clixpix

Oh come on...I'm sure her high school history curriculum included "wars"...she just didn't pay attention!


I'm always surprised when someone doesn't know something like that which would be considered "common knowledge" IMO. I'd like to think those Jaywalking people are faking it. They're probably not, but I like to think so.
You're probably right. If you go back and review the favorite subjects in school most members here said they hated history. Very likely the people who dislike the subject tune out during it.
I've always loved history. I have a very good ability to memorize and recall anything I read so it made that a subject I could do well in without doing anything at all!


Speaking of common knowledge, Friday while out with my MIL shopping a store had a radio on. The DJ asked a question as to what a bee and turtle have in common. The answer was supposedly that both are deaf?
Who would actually believe this? Turtles have ears and can hear, though not many ranges - it's the same with many lizards. I thought that was one of those common sense things that everyone knew.
 
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lil maggie

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Jeopardy is great but as you get older, your mind knows the answer but it takes so long for it to reach your mouth to shout it out. The answer, or rather question, is said by the contestant before you can even start to form the word


As far as what a bee and turtle have in common? I never heard of turtles being deaf. I might have said something stupid like WAX - bee's wax/turtle wax
 

valanhb

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I hope no one else had to deal with the high school history that I had.


The actual history teacher had a nervous breakdown (I'm not making this up!), and the first semester substitute was an English teacher who apparently didn't pay attention in her history classes past the Revolutionary War. That's all we learned about. Covered the Civil War in 2 weeks, and only because the final had to include it.


Second semester wasn't any better. This guy did know history, but I honestly don't remember anything about WWI, and he grazed through WWII. He wanted to spend 3/4 of the semester on Viet Nam, because that's all that was important to him. I think he may have mentioned the Korean War in passing.

My college history was World History I (which ended with Greece at its height, I believe), and History of the Christian Church I & II since I went to a parochial college.

So honestly, I might not have learned something as basic as how Hitler met his end and the end of Nazi Germany had it not been for my father, who was a history major in college, and my own interest. I learned more from the History Channel than I ever did in school.
 

swampwitch

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There is disagreement about how Hitler died. Some close to the SS say his suicide was staged. So maybe we don't know how he really died?

BTW, I can't stand to see Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt any more! I don't even see the characters for the movies they are playing, all I can see is Brad Pitt dressed like a soldier, or Tom Cruise dressed like a officer or whatever.
 

essayons89

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I've been reading a book called "The Third Reich at War". Between reading that book and watching "Schindler's List" in one of my classes my senses were a bit over loaded. I was going to make a thread talking about what I was reading but I haven't done so and it's too heavy for the lounge.

Hitler and his cronies were nothing short of monsters.

I'm a history major, which means I'm a bit biased, but I believe schools need to focus more on history. How many have heard the quote: "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"? History seems to keep repeating itself in one form or another.
 

baloneysmom

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I am not surprised at all. Being Jewish myself, and growing up in a mostly Jewish community I believe I am pretty educated on the whole situation surrounding Hitler and the War. When I moved to an area where I can pretty much say I may be the only Jew LOL I realized no one here knows anything about the War.

When I mentioned to my boyfriend that Millions died in the war he was shocked, he thought that the war lasted 1 year, and only around 100k people died. After he made this comment he and I rented a couple of movies so that he would be aware of what went on. Let me tell you, was he ever shocked at what went on. I was amazed that he didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t know and started asking around to other people to see what they knew. It was the same as my boyfriend, they had no clue. Shocking IMO, absolutely shocking, they all know now what went on as I took it upon myself to mention it.

I honestly donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t think that areas and communities that donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t have many Jews (Or other races, religions who suffered hardship in history) take the time to educate people fully and properly about these things as there is no one to push the importance of it. They may know about it, but not the nitty gritty details.
 

yosemite

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Originally Posted by BaloneysMom

I am not surprised at all. Being Jewish myself, and growing up in a mostly Jewish community I believe I am pretty educated on the whole situation surrounding Hitler and the War. When I moved to an area where I can pretty much say I may be the only Jew LOL I realized no one here knows anything about the War.

When I mentioned to my boyfriend that Millions died in the war he was shocked, he thought that the war lasted 1 year, and only around 100k people died. After he made this comment he and I rented a couple of movies so that he would be aware of what went on. Let me tell you, was he ever shocked at what went on. I was amazed that he didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t know and started asking around to other people to see what they knew. It was the same as my boyfriend, they had no clue. Shocking IMO, absolutely shocking, they all know now what went on as I took it upon myself to mention it.

I honestly donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t think that areas and communities that donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t have many Jews (Or other races, religions who suffered hardship in history) take the time to educate people fully and properly about these things as there is no one to push the importance of it. They may know about it, but not the nitty gritty details.
Actually I would have to disagree with you on this. I was raised and educated in New Brunswick and one thing I do believe is that the education we received (at least my generation) far exceeds that of the Ontario system. I attended Ontario schools during my latter teenage years and they were years behind what we had learned in NB.

It may just be a generation thing that you are experiencing because for sure as the daughter of a man who fought in WWII and a grandfather who fought in WWI I can assure you we were well aware of what happened.
 

baloneysmom

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No, I didn’t say anything bad about your education system. In fact, I entirely agree that you guys have an amazing education system with a wide range of subjects and some pretty interesting and fun ways the teachers teach. I have met far more educated people here then in Toronto, not only educated but a more stable mind set in a working environment. I believe the way the kids are taught here have more of a family value. I am not quite sure how to explain it, but working here, and learning is far less stressful, more understanding, and supportive then anything I have experienced in Toronto

Like I said though, I grew up very Jewish environment (without the religious stuff) I went to Hebrew school, the Jewish community Center, I have been to Israel on class trips etc. Where I came from it was hard to find anyone who didn’t know about the war, and most details, because everyone was so passionate about it. I have been here 2 years and have not met another Jewish person. I have met one person who heard of another Jewish person LOL. I just don’t think people know about it because the passion is not here. There isn’t that one teacher, who is Jewish, that makes the biggest project of the year about this war. I still to this day have not met anyone who know just how horrible the war is… they may know it was horrible, but really don’t know the extent of it.

Keep in mind i am not a huge social butterfly. When i say "everyone i have met" it doesn't mean i have thousands of friends. By this i mean people in my neighborhood, work environment, and friends. Its not many people.
 

ut0pia

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Maybe people learn about WWII but not about hitler's death? I don't remember really touching on how he died in my high school courses. The class focused more on the war itself and then its consequences. I mean I do remember that we learned that he died but the circumstances of his death were not focused on because after the war ended it's not really all about hitler anymore..Maybe your friend thought he got killed by the allies in the process of his defeat which isn't too tragic IMO.
 

yosemite

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Originally Posted by BaloneysMom

No, I didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t say anything bad about your education system. In fact, I entirely agree that you guys have an amazing education system with a wide range of subjects and some pretty interesting and fun ways the teachers teach. I have met far more educated people here then in Toronto, not only educated but a more stable mind set in a working environment. I believe the way the kids are taught here have more of a family value. I am not quite sure how to explain it, but working here, and learning is far less stressful, more understanding, and supportive then anything I have experienced in Toronto

Like I said though, I grew up very Jewish environment (without the religious stuff) I went to Hebrew school, the Jewish community Center, I have been to Israel on class trips etc. Where I came from it was hard to find anyone who didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t know about the war, and most details, because everyone was so passionate about it. I have been here 2 years and have not met another Jewish person. I have met one person who heard of another Jewish person LOL. I just donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t think people know about it because the passion is not here. There isnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t that one teacher, who is Jewish, that makes the biggest project of the year about this war. I still to this day have not met anyone who know just how horrible the war is… they may know it was horrible, but really donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t know the extent of it.

Keep in mind i am not a huge social butterfly. When i say "everyone i have met" it doesn't mean i have thousands of friends. By this i mean people in my neighborhood, work environment, and friends. Its not many people.
I didn't think you were dissing the education so no worries. You are very correct in that there are few to no Jewish people in the Maritimes. I don't think I ever met a Jewish person when I was growing up. My mom used to work in Montreal when my dad was overseas and she worked for a Jewish family so was familiar with them and their customs which she passed on to us kids so we probably were the only kids around that even knew anything about Jewish folks. When I moved to Toronto, naturally I met a lot of different peoples. I dated a Jewish man for several years and came close to marrying him, even to the point of taking classes with a Rabbi to convert to Judaism so I may be a bit more familiar with Judaism than the average Gentile.

I believe every child, Jew or Gentile, needs to know what happened to 6 million Jews in WWII and about Hitler and his cronies. As someone else said, otherwise there is the danger or history repeating itself.
 
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lil maggie

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I also heard that there is no actual proof that Hitler committed suicide. There are books that state that the Russians have his bones and dental records, but I'm sure it can be highly debated as to how he actually died.

What I find so shocking is that there really are people that will deny that the holocaust happened. I've actually run into such a person and nothing will convince them otherwise. Lies, myths and propaganda? Some claim that although there were prison camps, there were no death camps. There are some who think that the Jews were treated terribly by the Nazi's therefore invented the legend of the Holocaust.

The Nazi's recorded everything. We have tons of film in our US archives that were confiscated or released by the Germans after the war. I find it hard to believe that anyone can watch an actual historical film and think that (careful, graphic) bulldozing hundreds of bone thin bodies into shallow graves never happened or thinking the ovens in those camps weren't real. There really are individuals that reject the historical consensus that Nazi Germany slaughtered over 6 million Jews during the 1930's and 40's.

I agree that we should learn from history so mistakes won't be repeated.
I think it would be truly sad to dismiss or forget the atrocities of WWll.



*Today is Memorial Day ... A day of remembrance for those who have died in our nation's service, the ultimate sacrifice.
 

ut0pia

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I don't think it's odd that people deny the holocaust because I know that some people are really suspiscious of any information that is regarded as true by society. Some people think everything in life is a big conspiracy. So- no surprise there clearly you can't convince anyone like this to believe in any kind of history..I've heard that there are still people in the US saying that no civil war history is reliable because it was written by the north and they still wave their confederate flags...
lol anyways. It's hard to think about which historical facts are real because honestly, they're accepted in mainstream society so we regard them as true, but how can we be sure? We're relying on the experts for everything. I guess I accept history as true but I'm keeping in mind that it's all just about the sociological construction of reality.
 

essayons89

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Originally Posted by lil maggie

The Nazi's recorded everything.
In great detail, too.

There were 12 million people killed during the holocaust. Six million were Jews. There were Poles, Gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally and physically handicapped, and many others of Slavic descent who were deemed as "racially inferior" by the Nazis. The atrocities weren't just committed by the SS and the Gestapo. Paramilitary units, secret police, German civilians, and many in the Whermact also participated in the atrocities. I still have trouble wraping my head around how planned and systemic the holocaust was, and how people like Hitler, Goebbels, Eichmann, and Himmler (just to name a few) had such causal regard for human life. At the same time the Nazis used years of propaganda and rhetoric to brainwash people that the groups of people I mentioned above were "less than human".
 

misty8723

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strange_wings;2639641You're probably right. If you go back and review the favorite subjects in school most members here said they hated history. Very likely the people who dislike the subject tune out during it. I've always loved history. I have a very good ability to memorize and recall anything I read so it made that a subject I could do well in without doing anything at all! [img said:
How on earth can anyone hate history?
 
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lil maggie

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^ I agree especially when history is a reflection of ourselves and our behavior.
Learning history helps us to confront the complexities of it in ways that promote critical and creative thinking about the challenges we face and the opportunities we have for positive change.


Originally Posted by ut0pia

I don't think it's odd that people deny the holocaust because I know that some people are really suspiscious of any information that is regarded as true by society. Some people think everything in life is a big conspiracy.
No, I still think it's shocking and odd that anyone can deny the holocaust because of the information out there. It's not just text, it's actual film footage taken not by just one side. Bryan is right, there are so many films depicting this AND in great detail by only us? No, most of it by the Nazi's, the very people who committed these atrocities. The proof is all there in black and white (and in some cases color).
 
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