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History - what gives? - Page 2

post #31 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
Ah, sorry. Since Utopia, Essayons, and I had turned the conversation/thread to the Holocaust, dictators (and communist leaders) and genocide I thought that you were following that particular thread of the conversation, too.
Nope. However, when it comes to knowledge of history, I wonder what number people would answer if asked the question, "How many people died in World War II?"

Laurie
post #32 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
Nope. However, when it comes to knowledge of history, I wonder what number people would answer if asked the question, "How many people died in World War II?"
That depends. Are you wanting it answered by complete total that were killed even indirectly and not specifically from the Third Reich or do you just want what the Third Reich was responsible for? It's not a simple question and really doesn't have that simple of an answer.

If the former, Japan and Soviet Russia need to be factored in - so you get a couple more genocides to add to the number.
post #33 of 50
Going back to Hitler, he was both paranoid and delusional. He distrusted his generals, blaming them for every military setback that took place. As the war went on he removed himself from making public appearances and radio broadcasts and even started to exclude himself from his inner circle. The man believed that his will alone was enough to win the war. His biggest mistake was invading Russia. Then he made the fatal error of dividing his forces after invading Russia. Stalingrad became a personal battle of wills between Hitler and Stalin. The Red Army was no less brutal as they pushed the Germans back further and further.

As far as people not knowing significant events in history, there are too many who don't know anything about recent/curent events. You see it a lot around election time when they come out with those polls asking who the current VP is, or who the Secretary of State is, and people have no clue. Are you kidding me? How can a person not know who our first president was? Or who was Abraham Lincoln? Please.
post #34 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons89 View Post
As far as people not knowing significant events in history, there are too many who don't know anything about recent/curent events. You see it a lot around election time when they come out with those polls asking who the current VP is, or who the Secretary of State is, and people have no clue. Are you kidding me? How can a person not know who our first president was? Or who was Abraham Lincoln? Please.
Oh, I'll completely admit that I'm not that fond of politics/government and even American history - too many years of that. I also had to take a couple semesters of state history for Oklahoma, which wasn't so bad.
That said, most of your questions are all common sense stuff. I bet even our Canadian members could answer them easily.

As for the first paragraph of your post. I had an uncle who loved military history so I learned about a lot of that before grade school! And actually learned to read fairly young and was reading the various books he had. Now I have a FIL that loves military history, particularly WWII, so I sit and discuss that with him. I should probably pay more attention to what books you're ordering and reading as he always loves books for gifts...
post #35 of 50
Thread Starter 
I can understand people not knowing specifics in history but I am suprised that many don't know some of the basic events that took place. I also think that history classes should go over ALL history including current events. It's true that lots of people have no idea who all is running our government. And even though our Canadian friends know these easy questions, I'm betting there's a lot of Americans who don't.

I have to agree, a normal school history class involves memorizing names, dates and places - b o r i n g!
I think it'd be a great idea to mostly show historical films in class. If I were a history teacher I'd even bring popcorn! I'm more of a 20th century history buff but if the history channel has on a film even about, let's say, roman emperors, I'm glued to it. I think it's a great way to learn.
post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post


No, they didn't. It was around 300,000 to maybe 340,000. Though what Japan did do was rather gruesome. Worse is that the US let some of them off in trade for information - stuff like what the Japanese collected by performing experiments on live people...
Lol my bad, I don't know what I'm talking about..I was totally not sure but I usually trust my first instinct and i had a feeling like I knew ...In any case, I do remember some kind of statistic being said comparing the rape of nanking to the holocaust. I think maybe the japanese killed at a higher rate in the given time than the nazis? I dunno..but the point was that so many other genocides go unnoticed while the holocaust is always emphasized as huge in all history books. Maybe that's because we are so proud that we stopped it and stopped hitler, that we gotta talk all about how gruesome it was!


Quote:
Originally Posted by lil maggie View Post
I can understand people not knowing specifics in history but I am suprised that many don't know some of the basic events that took place. I also think that history classes should go over ALL history including current events. It's true that lots of people have no idea who all is running our government. And even though our Canadian friends know these easy questions, I'm betting there's a lot of Americans who don't.

I have to agree, a normal school history class involves memorizing names, dates and places - b o r i n g!
I think it'd be a great idea to mostly show historical films in class. If I were a history teacher I'd even bring popcorn! I'm more of a 20th century history buff but if the history channel has on a film even about, let's say, roman emperors, I'm glued to it. I think it's a great way to learn.
I'm not so sure historical films are the answer. I've had classes like that and I feel like they were the worst! I much prefer listening to heated lectures coming from a professor who's passionate about his work. I can barely stand watching fiction films, I've been walking out of the theaters halfway through so many movies lately, and documentaries are just impossible for me. I'd much rather read a book than watch a documentary. I'm taking a class on the history of the vietnam war at the moment, and although I generally dislike this period of history I'm loving all of the readings for that class..
Maybe I'm the exception though, maybe the majority prefers movies. I'm not a visual person at all so that doesn't help any either.
post #37 of 50
Hi,

many people over here in Germany took real offence in Tom Cruise playing Stauffenberg in Valkyrie due to his involvement in scientology. Over here scientology is seen as an totalitarian sect and it just seems wrong that one of their most prominent members was choosen to play Stauffenberg, wo lost his life trying to bring down the totalitarian nazi sytem.

Christine
post #38 of 50
^ I have a German friend who was grumbling about that, too. The general opinion about him over here, is that like other scientologist, he's a nut case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
Lol my bad, I don't know what I'm talking about..I was totally not sure but I usually trust my first instinct and i had a feeling like I knew ...In any case, I do remember some kind of statistic being said comparing the rape of nanking to the holocaust. I think maybe the japanese killed at a higher rate in the given time than the nazis? I dunno..but the point was that so many other genocides go unnoticed while the holocaust is always emphasized as huge in all history books. Maybe that's because we are so proud that we stopped it and stopped hitler, that we gotta talk all about how gruesome it was!
I got your point - the same one I was making. And yes, it was a ridiculously short period of time for that many to have been slaughtered in - around six weeks!

I like documentaries, films tend to bore me (not one for a lot of drama), and tend to prefer to read about events, too.
post #39 of 50
utopia, you might be thinking of the Chinese government itself being responsible for the indirect killing of an estimated 20 million Chinese peasants thru starvation when they were trying to implement the communist regime, this happened in the 40s-50s also
post #40 of 50
I personally Love history!! I am more of a fan of the American Revolution and more into Ancient civilizations like Ancient Greece, Ancient Egypt and Messopotamia (sp?) but any history to me is fascinating, i mean there is sooo much to learn! I was lucky in high school both i had two history teachers, one i had two years in a row for Modern world history and the following for AP US history, he was amazing and really funny!! He was a tough teacher, but i learned a lot from him, he was one of hte fave teachers at my school. And my teacher for American Government was also awesome, he was a student of my first teacher, so it was almost a given he'd be awesome. I agree if you have a pasionate teacher then you are more likely to be passionate.
My grandpa was a pilot in WWII so i guess i learned a lot about it because of him. It is sad how little people know about anything. My freshman year of college I was in this english class. We read two books on the holocaust. One I loved was by Art Spiegleman, Maus: A Survivor's Tale, a graphic novel about a son listening to his father talk about his life through out the time of wwII. And we read Viktor Frankl-- A Man's Search For Meaning. We had to write a paper on something that had to do with the holocaust or the Rwanda genocide. Well this girl read my paper (we had to critique each other) and I used an example of how the state of Tennessee was about the same population of how many Jewish people were killed, about 6 million and stated that we as a country would have lost a whole state (trying to show how big a number of the Jewish people killed) and the girl said, that it didnt make sense and that I should use India as an example I was like India has wayyy more people than 6 million!!! SHe tried to argue with me...wow how did she get in college???

I think some people are just to absorbed in their own ideas and lives that they dont either care or want to know about history and the facts, they just make up their own!
post #41 of 50
I pretty much like all aspects of history, the less it's sugar coated the better. I do have my favorite areas, though: Ancient history starting with the early humans and the rise of the first civilizations all of the way through the decline and fall of the Roman Empire (), American history from the colonies all of the way through the Civil War, and World War 2. I also love military history.

I'm always hungry to learn more. Ancient Chinese history interests me, as well as Indian history (the country) since we only touched on them briefly in class. I have a small mountain of books here that I haven't even cracked the covers of yet. With more being added every month.

I also want to write about history. Nothing major at first but I wouldn't mind dabbling in something to get my feet wet. I've been bouncing around the idea of researching and writing about the beginnings of Rome to the point where it became a republic. I just worry about overwhelming myself.
post #42 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons89 View Post
I pretty much like all aspects of history, the less it's sugar coated the better. I do have my favorite areas, though: Ancient history starting with the early humans and the rise of the first civilizations all of the way through the decline and fall of the Roman Empire (), American history from the colonies all of the way through the Civil War, and World War 2. I also love military history.

I'm always hungry to learn more. Ancient Chinese history interests me, as well as Indian history (the country) since we only touched on them briefly in class. I have a small mountain of books here that I haven't even cracked the covers of yet. With more being added every month.

I also want to write about history. Nothing major at first but I wouldn't mind dabbling in something to get my feet wet. I've been bouncing around the idea of researching and writing about the beginnings of Rome to the point where it became a republic. I just worry about overwhelming myself.
If you want to write about history you really should become a college professor because you'd get so much recognition and actually be guaranteed pay for your work..My professors have all published many history books...
I want to write about history also but my ultimate dream is to write historical fiction ....lol I'm more of an emotional person (the personality test I did that strange_wings gave a while ago told me so too )so sugar coating and twisting it up is what i'm ALL about!
post #43 of 50
My goal is a Phd, so becoming a professor is an option. By sugar coating I mean I don't like when history is sanitized. I find school history textbooks to be a bit lacking in information but I at the same time I understand it's not practicable for them to be so.

I have a friend at work who loves historical fiction.
post #44 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons89 View Post
My goal is a Phd, so becoming a professor is an option.
Or you could become a published writer that always talks on various documentaries who looks and says some pretty eccentric things. (some of them you always wonder if they do anything else...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
I want to write about history also but my ultimate dream is to write historical fiction ....lol I'm more of an emotional person (the personality test I did that strange_wings gave a while ago told me so too )so sugar coating and twisting it up is what i'm ALL about!
You're own post and reactions on here make that very apparent. No test needed.

I have a friend who's majored and has published some work on medieval history. Of course her work is in Dutch so I won't ever get to read it.
She can be a real hoot to talk with as she works the craziest references into a conversation. She also writes some historical fiction.

Good luck to both of you in your endeavors.
post #45 of 50
Just some random thoughts...

I LOVE that we can have such intelligent discussions here!!! You guys rock!! (So much for intelligent discussion, huh?)

I think there somehow needs to be a happy medium in the classroom between the dates and numbers, which generally are very boring but necessary to learn, and the human factor - more of the sociological aspect. I think young people would be much more interested in history if it were somehow more personal to them. Diary of Anne Frank was required reading for so long, but I never had to read it when I was in school. That put a personal story in the kids' minds, and made the Holocaust more real because it wasn't just the numbers. It's difficult for me to wrap my head around 6 million people killed in the Holocaust, or 20 million dead when China implimented communism. It's impossible for most teens to do so.

I also think that "movies" when they are done accurately and without all the special effects and blood and guts (though that can be accurate, it tends to take away from the understanding the whys and hows in lieu of the special effects) definitely should have more of a place in the classroom and in learning in general. Let's face it, the upcoming generations were not raised on books. They were raised on TV and computers, and that medium will make more of an impression.

I think certain episodes of Band of Brothers are amazing to show the brutality of war, how personal it is, but yet how it can be necessary sometimes. Actually, I love the whole miniseries. I also think that Conspiracy with Kenneth Branagh and Stanley Tucci as Heydrich and Eichmann is incredibly powerful. If you haven't seen it, it is a recreation of the conference held by Heydrich and Eichmann discussing the "Final Solution" which was taken from actual meeting transcripts/stenographs (that were supposed to be destroyed, but as I understand it one copy did survive). As you all said, the Nazis were meticulous with their documentation. There are a few scenes that are outside of the meeting and were dramatized, but the meeting is very real and unbelievable at how cold and calculating these men were.
post #46 of 50
The Band of Brothers episode "Why We Fight" would be a good one to show. Conspiracy sounds good, I may have to check that out.
post #47 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post

You're probably right. If you go back and review the favorite subjects in school most members here said they hated history. Very likely the people who dislike the subject tune out during it.
many ranges - it's the same with many lizards. I thought that was one of those common sense things that everyone knew.
OK so I went back and reviewed this thread and a grand total of 4 people said they hated history and I think there were 14 people who said they hated maths (rough count).

The people who had history down as one of their favourite subjects was between 5-6! soooo overall on TCS we're history buffs, me included
post #48 of 50
^I could have sworn more people said they found history boring or that they didn't like it. However, we've also had threads like this at least a couple times before so maybe I'm mixing them up.

For the record, I don't really hate math - I'm just terrible at it. I did have bad teachers, though, and couldn't stand a single one of them (a couple shouldn't have even been allowed to teach considering they were no good at it and verbally abusive to students).
post #49 of 50
Dates, names and places are important and I can see where people can be turned off of learning history if those things are the sole focus but I think it's just as important to look at the why and how events took place. It does no good to know that World War I started in 1914 if you don't know the events that led up to it.

Going back to the stupidity of Hitler, I still shake my head at him dividing his forces in Russia. If it were me I would have left my forces concentrated and : 1) Went for the oil fields in the Caucusus to secure those first, and 2) Focused more on keeping my troops supplied and the supply lines open. You also don't start a war on two fronts.

Despite being one of the biggest psycopaths the world has seen, he was also a mental midget.
post #50 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
^I could have sworn more people said they found history boring or that they didn't like it. However, we've also had threads like this at least a couple times before so maybe I'm mixing them up.

For the record, I don't really hate math - I'm just terrible at it. I did have bad teachers, though, and couldn't stand a single one of them (a couple shouldn't have even been allowed to teach considering they were no good at it and verbally abusive to students).

I sooo know what you mean about math! I hate it lol. I am good at something if i have a good teacher who makes me like it. Like in 8th grade, i got an A in algebra 1 because my teacher was awesome and i knew what i was doing. And Geometry in high school, i got A's and Bs because again my teacher was awesome. Algebra 2 my teacher thought he was real smart, and he called us dumb all the time, he said we could ask questions, that he prefered us to ask, but when we did, he would be like Ohhh how could you not know the answer to that, its soo easy...in a rude tone. He degraded all his students even the smart ones in calculus....thats why i never took calc. My Statistics teacher was pretty cool too, but she left us half way through the year and my B went to a C. The new teacher didnt know anything, she took stats once in college and was learning while we were learning... mind you this was an AP class so when it came time to take the AP test....most people even the really smart didnt pass because she left us unprepared. I also loved english, mostly to read books lol or write stories, im good at writing, at least i think so lol.
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