At my wits end and I hate that feeling

ldg

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Ping, here are my thoughts, for what it's worth.

Here are the goals:

1) Ping, as the existing kitty, is the priority. Ping's health and happiness are paramount.
2) Tiny needs to be happy and healthy too - but she needs to learn how to behave properly in your home.

To achieve number 2, here are my thoughts:

I agree with GoldenKitty. I think Tiny should be separated in her own room (if that's possible) for a reintroduction. Let her out only for supervised "visits" - and also for "behavior expectations retraining." (A new phrase I just made up
). This will give Ping some "breathing" room.


Cats learn best through positive reinforcement, so forget the squirt bottle. It will only make her scared of you. For the "negative" reaction, get an empty can and put some coins in it. When she goes for Ping, rattle the can loudly - the loud noise should startle her out of the attack if done properly. Say "NO" firmly. Pick her up and put her in the bathroom for a 5 minute time-out. When the time-out is up, do not say a word, do not look at her, just open the door and walk away. She learns that attacking Ping gets her isolated and ignored.

For the positive reinforcement, let her know when she's doing "good." When she is around Ping and playing nicely or not attacking him, or if she walks past him without attacking him, or is laying down near him - praise her to high heaven. Well - praise both of them, because we don't want Ping left out. Give them both 2 treats.

Create as much vertical space as you can. If it's a dominance thing, having the ability to go "up" often helps diffuse the physical aspect of it. Don't know if you live in your own home or rent, but if you don't rent, stuff like this is really cool and pretty easy to do yourselves: http://www.katwallks.com/customerphotos.htm. Of course cat condos and cat trees are an option. They can also easily be "built" by pyramiding or building "steps up" out of large rubbermaid containers.

But I'd go for separating her first. Go for supervised visits. When she shows aggression, back in her room she goes. I'd do this first for a couple of weeks, though I would use the can of coins to break the attack.

I would definitely at least put her in her own room for the night, so Ping can slowly get back to realizing it is safe to sleep in the bedroom with you.
(His behavior now won't change overnight
).

I'd also use vanilla on both of them before their supervised visits. Dab it behind their ears, at the base of their tails, on their bums, and under their chins. Find real vanilla - not the synthetic, mostly-alcohol based stuff.

But focus on positive reinforcement when possible. And focus on letting her understand that aggressive behavior gets her ignored.

To that... when she attacks you or hubby, blow a short, sharp puff of air directly in her face. Say NO firmly. It's a little late - but is she teething? Either way, get some bendy straws. After blowing in her face and saying "no," hand her a bendy straw to bite/chew, and walk away. Given that for a few weeks at least, she should be confined for the night, biting you in bed or while sleeping won't be an issue. If you decide not to do this, it's a PIA, but blow, say "no," and give her a straw. If she doesn't focus on the straw but continues to try to play/bite you, blow, say "no," give her a straw, and put her in the bathroom for a 5-minute time out. Again, the idea is to get her to realize that biting a human at all is NOT ok, and it gets her ignored.

...but she is a kitty.
She needs lots of attention and play time (though do make sure Ping always gets attention - play or love, whatever - first). Give Tiny lots of play time in her room - make sure she's not just alone in there all the time. Put up a bird feeder just outside a window in her room or one that uses a suction cup and stick it on the window - and make sure she's got some way to sit at window height. But again - when she's playing nice, not playing with your limbs or biting you - praiser her. Help her understand what is OK and what isn't.




Laurie
 

ldg

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....and if you don't want to put her in her own room for reintroduction, at least feed her in a separate room where you can close the door.



Laurie
 

goldenkitty45

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Sometimes feral cats act totally different socially then an ordinary domestic housecat and this can be part of the problem.

I still think putting her in a room by herself will help. I'm also assuming she is spayed too. Females tend to be more territorial then males and this could also be the reason.

I hope you can get things to work out. Keep in mind that PING really should be in charge and he's your #1 priority over Tiny.
 

shanynne

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Originally Posted by LDG

Ping, here are my thoughts, for what it's worth.

Here are the goals:

1) Ping, as the existing kitty, is the priority. Ping's health and happiness are paramount.
2) Tiny needs to be happy and healthy too - but she needs to learn how to behave properly in your home.

To achieve number 2, here are my thoughts:

I agree with GoldenKitty. I think Tiny should be separated in her own room (if that's possible) for a reintroduction. Let her out only for supervised "visits" - and also for "behavior expectations retraining." (A new phrase I just made up
). This will give Ping some "breathing" room.


Cats learn best through positive reinforcement, so forget the squirt bottle. It will only make her scared of you. For the "negative" reaction, get an empty can and put some coins in it. When she goes for Ping, rattle the can loudly - the loud noise should startle her out of the attack if done properly. Say "NO" firmly. Pick her up and put her in the bathroom for a 5 minute time-out. When the time-out is up, do not say a word, do not look at her, just open the door and walk away. She learns that attacking Ping gets her isolated and ignored.

For the positive reinforcement, let her know when she's doing "good." When she is around Ping and playing nicely or not attacking him, or if she walks past him without attacking him, or is laying down near him - praise her to high heaven. Well - praise both of them, because we don't want Ping left out. Give them both 2 treats.

Create as much vertical space as you can. If it's a dominance thing, having the ability to go "up" often helps diffuse the physical aspect of it. Don't know if you live in your own home or rent, but if you don't rent, stuff like this is really cool and pretty easy to do yourselves: http://www.katwallks.com/customerphotos.htm. Of course cat condos and cat trees are an option. They can also easily be "built" by pyramiding or building "steps up" out of large rubbermaid containers.

But I'd go for separating her first. Go for supervised visits. When she shows aggression, back in her room she goes. I'd do this first for a couple of weeks, though I would use the can of coins to break the attack.

I would definitely at least put her in her own room for the night, so Ping can slowly get back to realizing it is safe to sleep in the bedroom with you.
(His behavior now won't change overnight
).

I'd also use vanilla on both of them before their supervised visits. Dab it behind their ears, at the base of their tails, on their bums, and under their chins. Find real vanilla - not the synthetic, mostly-alcohol based stuff.

But focus on positive reinforcement when possible. And focus on letting her understand that aggressive behavior gets her ignored.

To that... when she attacks you or hubby, blow a short, sharp puff of air directly in her face. Say NO firmly. It's a little late - but is she teething? Either way, get some bendy straws. After blowing in her face and saying "no," hand her a bendy straw to bite/chew, and walk away. Given that for a few weeks at least, she should be confined for the night, biting you in bed or while sleeping won't be an issue. If you decide not to do this, it's a PIA, but blow, say "no," and give her a straw. If she doesn't focus on the straw but continues to try to play/bite you, blow, say "no," give her a straw, and put her in the bathroom for a 5-minute time out. Again, the idea is to get her to realize that biting a human at all is NOT ok, and it gets her ignored.

...but she is a kitty.
She needs lots of attention and play time (though do make sure Ping always gets attention - play or love, whatever - first). Give Tiny lots of play time in her room - make sure she's not just alone in there all the time. Put up a bird feeder just outside a window in her room or one that uses a suction cup and stick it on the window - and make sure she's got some way to sit at window height. But again - when she's playing nice, not playing with your limbs or biting you - praiser her. Help her understand what is OK and what isn't.




Laurie
Some excellent suggestions here!

You know, cats can sometimes be like children. They might play too rough or pick on each other, there are times when even bullying might be involved.

When Tiny starts picking on Ping, as Laurie as suggested, she needs to be scolded, just as you would scold a child. Sometimes, clapping your hands together and a "Hey! hey! stop that!" said in a "stern" tone of voice, can go a long ways to stopping the unwanted behavior. Also, talking to Tiny "don't you go biting and hurting your brother Ping" with that special tone of voice, the kind that they know they have done something wrong can also be very helpful.

As far as feeding time goes, can you feed them both the same thing? If not, you may have to start feeding them in the same room and just keep picking up Tiny and putting her back in front of her food dish each time she does this. Be firm, but gentle. It *will* take time, but she will learn.

Everyone's given such great advice, but I especially like the idea of the time-outs and the vanilla to make them smell the same.

The key is to "redirect" the kitty's attention.

Lastly, be consistent, firm, but gentle. By being consistent, firm and gentle, you will teach Tiny discipline in a kind way and her love and trust for you will grow. Once Ping sees that you are actively "looking out" for him, his trust and love will grow as well.

As has already been suggested, keeping them apart at night, at least until you feel comfortable that Tiny's aggressive behavior has stopped is a good idea. Also, if possible, make sure Ping has his *own* safe zone.

Also, maybe Felliway diffuser might help.

If after you have tried all of this and there is still no change, because she *must* learn that she cannot attack Ping, then you and your husband can decide if you want to rehome her. Ping has the right to feel safe and that safety comes from you.

Hope this helps!
 

threecatowner

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I love all the info on this thread - it's like Super Nanny for cats!


Seriously, it all sounds good to me. When Tiny attacks you in your sleep, how do you mean? I ask because I had a female kitten who bit my nose - hard - in my sleep to wake me up, and it DROVE ME CRAZY! I bought her a pacifier, but she wanted no part of that. This was not an agressive cat, ever - it was just her behavior as a kitten.

We had another cat - Cujo (yes, that's why we named him Cujo) who was a stray/feral and very aggressive. He attacked legs - and he did bite through skin - as you walked. It was all about the chase with him. He went on a female hormone (Ovaban - this was the 1980's), to curb spraying and it calmed him down considerably, as well.

The advice of putting Tiny in a room at night so Ping can come back to your room is good. With us, Mickey did eventually come back to sleep with me (he left my son's top bunk), and Scaredy sleeps two feet away from him in a rocking chair - every night.

Try these things the above posters suggested - it may change things well enough that you can get back to a normal routine. In my case it happened almost without my realizing it. As Scaredy grew up a little (and it's only been 7 months) she calmed down - it could happen with Tiny, too.

Bless you for trying!
 

fifi1puss

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You guys are a hoot! "behavoir expectation training" (I love it!) , super nanny for cats.
I am laughing out loud at work! You guys are gonna get me in trouble!
 
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ping

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Uggg I just found out one of them peed on my livingroom floor. I was cleaning by the section of my husband's area. Moved a speaker that he had on the floor and there was pee there and in another section. How one of them were able to pee under it I'll never know but it was pee. And it is so wet and humid (been raining almost everyday since last weekend) I don't know when I will be able to steam clean the area.
 

ldg

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I'm so sorry.


Don't bother steam cleaning it, that won't do it. You must get an enzyme cleaner. Nature's Miracle is sold in most pet stores, but it doesn't work that great and usually needs 2 - 3 applications.

If you can afford it, I would invest in a black light, to make sure there aren't any more spots you don't know about (at night, use the black light with the lights off and any pee will turn up as an orange splotch): http://www.amazon.com/BL6-Portable-6.../dp/B000IAECQU

Also, if you can afford this cleaner, I thoroughly recommend it: http://www.nokout.com/odorelim/pets/

There is a home-made formula that apparently works well. I have to go look for the link.

Blot up what you can now. When you use whatever enzyme cleaner or home remedy to clean, SOAK the area, down to the floor boards. Let it sit for 10 - 15 minutes, soak up the extra wet, and you MUST leave it to air dry. We usually set aluminum foil over the area - it helps discourage continued use of the place (the smell encourages them to keep using it).

How many litter boxes do you have?



Laurie
 

ldg

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Found the link. If you use this home made version, follow the instructions that come with them: http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=13

But yes.... whatever product you use, the point is - use a LOT of it, and "wet and squishy" is, IMO, a great way to describe how any carpet should feel after an enzyme (or home remedy) cleaner has been applied to carpeting or fabric that has been peed on.

Laurie
 

StefanZ

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About home remedies to clean pee:

Remove the worst with diluted vinegar essence (=vinegar alcohol). Wash after it with green or yellow soap (green or yellow bolt soap).
I hope the translations make sense...

If it is somewhere you cant really wash, ie a sofa; soak with the vinegar essence solution, dry, and use the vacuum cleaner.

Green or yellow bolt soap is by the way very useful in many situations where cats are involved: so for example for the normal cleaning of litters.



The modern enzymatic cleaners LDG talks about is of course good, but this is another story.
 
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ping

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I have not had much time to update ya'll on how things are going here. Whichever was peeing on stuff is no longer doing that. We have a strong feeling that it was Tiny for some reason. The one spot we thought was pee (because Ping did pee there once) there is a pipe that is leaking because a nut needs to be tightened. We are waiting on the guy that did the repair to come by and fix that today.

Ping and Tiny seem to be getting a long better. I have come to the conclusion that she was doing the things she did to get him to play. But he is a big lazy cat that just does not play much anymore. And hubby said that I could do whatever I felt would work in this situation (when I went over everything said here). I made the decision that Tiny needs someone closer to her own age to play with. So today I went and got a friend for her. I believe it is a he, 8 wks old, and is a mezer mix. He is in the bathroom right now getting used to the sights, sounds and smells here. Maybe later today or tonight I will let him out for a short or visitation with the others. We will see how that goes.

Oh and as for the other two getting along Ping a few days ago finally put is paw down on her behavior and showed her who is bigger and has the upper hand here, and after that things have been fine. And Ping is back sleeping with me at night. I guess it just took time.

I will post pictures of the new one in a bit.
 

ckblv

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That is great news Toughie, I am happy for Ping and I imagine it is a huge load off your mind also.
 
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