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Refusing treatment for son's cancer

post #1 of 121
5/20/09 at 8:08am
Thread Starter 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,520690,00.html

They are now on the run. I can't believe these people! That boy is going to die and when he does, I hope they can charge the parents with some type of murder!
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post #2 of 121
5/20/09 at 8:22am
If the boy himself has opted for no treatment after one chemotherapy treatment then I don't have a problem with it. He and his parents have made a decision and it's not up to the "state" to interfere IMO.

I read here all the time how people don't want the government and states to make their decisions for them - isn't this a case of the same thing? If I make a decision regarding my own life, it's nobody's business but mine. That's what DNR's are for as well.
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post #3 of 121
5/20/09 at 8:28am
Thread Starter 
I'm sorry, but a 13 year old boy is nowhere near mature enough to make a life or death decision like that. Especially when the doctor describes him as:

Quote:
has a learning disability and cannot read, did not understand the risks and benefits of chemotherapy and didn't believe he was ill.
All this boy knows is what his parents have told him. Not to mention, that the law requires them to provide necessary medical care. I think chemo to prevent death by a very treatable disease falls under "necessary"

ETA: I don't think this can be compared with a DNR situation either. This boy isn't in a coma, he isn't brain damaged or in a vegetative state. He is otherwise healthy and could most likely live a long and normal life if his cancer is treated.
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post #4 of 121
5/20/09 at 8:31am
The boy is a minor, and the parents appear to be misguided at best - they claim to be following religious dictates. Roman Catholicism, which they claim to follow, certainly believes in modern medical treatments, especially when, as in this case, the type of cancer has been shown to normally react well to treatment. And, even the other sect the mother claims to be guided by has now said she should be working with the court.

I don't like that they're hiding behind 'religious beliefs', and one could certainly make a good argument that the boy is not making an independent, informed choice. I also believe they should be charged with child abuse and murder, should the boy die. The parents are responsible for the child's health - it's not their own bodies they're dealing with.
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post #5 of 121
5/20/09 at 8:31am
I think if the boy does not want to do it, and his parents are just respecting his wishes then they should be left alone! Chemo is so hard on a persons body! I watched my Mom going through chemo before she died and she was always sick! hurting and just so exhausted! maybe he figures he wants to enjoy the time he has left?? it is a very sad situation and I would not even want to imagine the heart ache his parents must feel. I couldn't imagine the pain of one of my children being diagnosed with cancer.
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post #6 of 121
5/20/09 at 8:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudmamiof4 View Post
I think if the boy does not want to do it, and his parents are just respecting his wishes then they should be left alone! Chemo is so hard on a persons body! I watched my Mom going through chemo before she died and she was always sick! hurting and just so exhausted! maybe he figures he wants to enjoy the time he has left?? it is a very sad situation and I would not even want to imagine the heart ache his parents must feel. I couldn't imagine the pain of one of my children being diagnosed with cancer.
That's the thing. He doesn't have to have only a little "time left". His type of cancer is VERY treatable and has a high success rate with chemo.
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post #7 of 121
5/20/09 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlleyGirl View Post
I'm sorry, but a 13 year old boy is nowhere near mature enough to make a life or death decision like that. Especially when the doctor describes him as:
I agree.

And I think that the government intervening in a situation like this where a child's life is in danger is okay.
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post #8 of 121
5/20/09 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlleyGirl View Post
ETA: I don't think this can be compared with a DNR situation either. This boy isn't in a coma, he isn't brain damaged or in a vegetative state. He is otherwise healthy and could most likely live a long and normal life if his cancer is treated.
Even in a DNR situation, the kid wouldn't be allowed to make that descision himself.
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post #9 of 121
5/20/09 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudmamiof4 View Post
I think if the boy does not want to do it, and his parents are just respecting his wishes then they should be left alone! Chemo is so hard on a persons body! I watched my Mom going through chemo before she died and she was always sick! hurting and just so exhausted! maybe he figures he wants to enjoy the time he has left?? it is a very sad situation and I would not even want to imagine the heart ache his parents must feel. I couldn't imagine the pain of one of my children being diagnosed with cancer.
This is exactly what I was trying to say (but you said it much better). I can imagine how awful the parents must feel when that child cries and begs not to have to be put through more chemo. It would break my heart if it were my child to hear that. I myself would not opt for chemo should the need arise. Why spend your last days being sick, sick, sick? I know some of you have said this is a treatable cancer - maybe it is but there are no guarantees.
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post #10 of 121
5/20/09 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlleyGirl View Post
ETA: I don't think this can be compared with a DNR situation either. This boy isn't in a coma, he isn't brain damaged or in a vegetative state. He is otherwise healthy and could most likely live a long and normal life if his cancer is treated.
But that isn't so! They said he had a learning disability, could not even read so it appears to me as though he does have some brain damage and except for being in a vegetative state/coma, he will never live a normal life. In this situation, the onus is on his parents to make his decisions for him because even if he was 18 or 25, he is not mentally equipped to make that decision himself.
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post #11 of 121
5/20/09 at 8:48am
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Originally Posted by kscatlady View Post
I agree.

And I think that the government intervening in a situation like this where a child's life is in danger is okay.
OK - then who decides where to draw the line? The government can intervene in this situation but not in another - who is going to make that decision? Folks, you can't have it both ways - either they can intervene and override peoples wishes or they can't.
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post #12 of 121
5/20/09 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlleyGirl View Post
His type of cancer is VERY treatable and has a high success rate with chemo.
That's whats so sad as well knowing that But, he's of an age when he can think for himself in this sort of situation because he knows what to expect from the treatment

My nextdoor neighbours little girl who's 9 goes for regular checkups after having leukemia, and on their last visit my neighbour said there was a teenage boy who was on the same cancer ward as his daughter. Sadly his came back, and he told my neighbour he made the decision he wasn't going to go through any more chemo again
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post #13 of 121
5/20/09 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
This is exactly what I was trying to say (but you said it much better). I can imagine how awful the parents must feel when that child cries and begs not to have to be put through more chemo. It would break my heart if it were my child to hear that. I myself would not opt for chemo should the need arise. Why spend your last days being sick, sick, sick? I know some of you have said this is a treatable cancer - maybe it is but there are no guarantees.
I agree, there are no guarantees....you can die from the chemo even if you would maybe survive the cancer. I would never opt for chemo myself! My Mom was a strong woman and it broke her down to the point she wanted to just stop fighting. She was sick all the time,headaches,chills,vomiting,diarrhea and many other things! It was painful to be around her, because we knew she was in so much pain. To me it is quality over quanity. If I can have a short time here and be comfortable, as opposed to a long and miserable life. I would rather live a short life.
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post #14 of 121
5/20/09 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlleyGirl View Post
I'm sorry, but a 13 year old boy is nowhere near mature enough to make a life or death decision like that. Especially when the doctor describes him as:



All this boy knows is what his parents have told him. Not to mention, that the law requires them to provide necessary medical care. I think chemo to prevent death by a very treatable disease falls under "necessary"

ETA: I don't think this can be compared with a DNR situation either. This boy isn't in a coma, he isn't brain damaged or in a vegetative state. He is otherwise healthy and could most likely live a long and normal life if his cancer is treated.

13 year old girls are allowed to have abortions without parental consent.
I would think if teenage girls can have abortions and it is their right to have abortions, then it is, also, this boy's right to not go through chemo.
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post #15 of 121
5/20/09 at 10:43am
I bet most of the parents at St Jude's Childrens Hospital would be grateful to have a child with a treatable cancer - and a way to treat that cancer that's been pretty well documented, and successful. And, a lot of people are assuming chemo is necessarily incredibly debilitating - that's not always the case these days.

If the boy can be shown to be fully competent and able to make his own decision, ok, stupid or not, that's it - but that does not seem to be the case here.
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post #16 of 121
5/20/09 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by darlili View Post
I bet most of the parents at St Jude's Childrens Hospital would be grateful to have a child with a treatable cancer - and a way to treat that cancer that's been pretty well documented, and successful. And, a lot of people are assuming chemo is necessarily incredibly debilitating - that's not always the case these days.

If the boy can be shown to be fully competent and able to make his own decision, ok, stupid or not, that's it - but that does not seem to be the case here.
That may be true of "most" of the parents at St. Jude's Childrens' Hospital but it is still that family's decision - not St. Jude's hospital, the government, the state or those parents who would make a different decision. Who gets to decide when to pull the plug so to speak?

Like Cindy said, if 13 year old girls can make abortion decisions, I don't see why a 13 year old boy cannot make a "chemo" decision.

I can only imagine what kind of pain he must have experienced to be so adamant that he does not want further chemo treatment even though a poster above says that chemo is not necessarily painful any more. Obviously it was to this boy or he would not have refused it after the first time.
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post #17 of 121
5/20/09 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by darlili View Post
I bet most of the parents at St Jude's Childrens Hospital would be grateful to have a child with a treatable cancer - and a way to treat that cancer that's been pretty well documented, and successful. And, a lot of people are assuming chemo is necessarily incredibly debilitating - that's not always the case these days.

If the boy can be shown to be fully competent and able to make his own decision, ok, stupid or not, that's it - but that does not seem to be the case here.
Have you ever watched someone close to you receiving chemo treatments? if so I think you may have a different opinion on whether or not it is incredibly painful! My Mom was getting chemo treatments just a few years ago. And I can assure you shew was in incredible pain.
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post #18 of 121
5/20/09 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudmamiof4 View Post
Have you ever watched someone close to you receiving chemo treatments? if so I think you may have a different opinion on whether or not it is incredibly painful! My Mom was getting chemo treatments just a few years ago. And I can assure you shew was in incredible pain.
My best friend's husband also refused chemo after the first couple treatments and he was in his early 50's, highly educated, no mental facility issues and quite capable of making the decision. His decision was respected by his doctors - too bad this family's decision is not respected.
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post #19 of 121
5/20/09 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
My best friend's husband also refused chemo after the first couple treatments and he was in his early 50's, highly educated, no mental facility issues and quite capable of making the decision. His decision was respected by his doctors - too bad this family's decision is not respected.
I agree with you 100% imagine the horror of your child being diagnosed with cancer, then for him to decide the treatments were too painful and then to be told he would be taken from you if you don't make him take treatments!! rhis is horrible and so sad! I really feel for these parents!
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post #20 of 121
5/20/09 at 12:19pm
I had Chemo for 5+ months, it is not an experience I would like to go through again.

I felt like it affected my mind for many months afterward. When I tried to talk my brain knew what I wanted to say but the words didn't want to come.

I remember being soooooo weak, just weak to the bone.

I am wondering what they are going to do if they find this boy and his mother.
Are they going to take him to a cancer treatment facility, forcibly, tie him down against his will and force the Chemo drugs into him? Is that what this so called "free" country is all about now?
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post #21 of 121
5/20/09 at 12:23pm
I have had a standing DNR order from the DAY I could by law and prior to it had a paper I wrote up that mom would have enforced with my wishes ...

On a different note while my mother was dying , my aunt was battling stage 4 cancer with chemo and radiation . She DIED not from the cancer but the drugs used to kill the cancer killed her..

As for have some disabilities FOEY ... I have lots of them and still can in some cases make a more informed decision than someone without ... I agree with Linda and Cindy 13 is a reasonable age to make this choice
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post #22 of 121
5/20/09 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I am wondering what they are going to do if they find this boy and his mother.
Are they going to take him to a cancer treatment facility, forcibly, tie him down against his will and force the Chemo drugs into him?
Isn't that a horrible thought if they do that
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post #23 of 121
5/20/09 at 2:05pm
I saw an interview with some doctors on CNN who said they would not forcibly give chemo. They said what they try to do in a case like this would be to talk with the child and his parents and try to convince them.

They also said there's a 95% cure rate for his cancer. Knowing that, it just seems so unnecessary and tragic for him to die. I know when I was a kid, I wasn't good at taking the long view on anything, and in a couple of cases -- nothing anywhere near as serious as this -- wish the adults at hand had been a little stronger with me. I wonder if peer counseling would help -- if he could talk to kids who had the same cancer and chemo, and if they thought it was worth it maybe he would reconsider.
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post #24 of 121
5/20/09 at 2:10pm
This is a local story for me.....I'm sorry, but I think the courts are right. Does he understand he will likely die without chemo? I've sat with people through chemo, are watching 2 people get chemo right now, it's not a pretty thing. But does this 13 year old boy understand the decision he is making?
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post #25 of 121
5/20/09 at 2:44pm
95% cure rate? That is very debatable. Also, you say they wouldn't "force" him to undergo chemo, well that is exactly what they are doing with the courts approval. Don't you think the doctors have talked to the boy and his parents?

The boy went through one round of chemo and he opted out. There are alternatives to chemo.
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post #26 of 121
5/20/09 at 3:49pm
I heard 75% remission rate (there's never a guarantee that it won't come back), but really that's neither here nor there.

He's 13 years old and has enough of a learning disability that he can't read. He doesn't believe that he's sick. And apparently even the first dose of chemo was enough to make him refuse any more treatments. No, 13 is not old enough to make decisions for his own wellbeing on his own, but his parents support his decision.

Frankly, I hate that they are using religion as the excuse now, because they obviously did utilize modern medicine for him to be diagnosed, get prescribed chemo, undergo the first treatment, etc. It wasn't all decreed by the courts - they wouldn't have known he was sick if they hadn't sought modern medicine for the diagnosis.

I think the court has gone too far with this, but that seems to be the wave of the future. The boy has made his choice, his parents support his choice and even if HE doesn't understand the consequences of his decision they do. It's up to them to explain it to him if he doesn't understand it.
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post #27 of 121
5/20/09 at 5:36pm
I suspect the boy will suffer more as he succumbs to the cancer than he would have taking the chemo. That's a sad thought.

I have to take the side of keeping the government out of private family matters. If the boy is mentally handicapped enough that he really shouldn't make a choice for himself, then his parents should do that for him. And if the parents trust the boy enough to allow him to make the decision, that's their choice. None of us know this family and to place judgement on their decision isn't fair to them.
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post #28 of 121
5/20/09 at 7:59pm
I heard an interesting argument this evening on the radio when I was running an errand. The caller hadn't made up his mind about this situation but brought this up as another argument.

If a 13 year old boy killed another child the state could argue that he should be tried as an adult, depending on the crime at hand. It's been done successfully in other states. However, in this case the state is arguing that a 13 year old is not old enough to make life and death decisions for himself and his parents can't make the decision unless it's one the state supports. So which it? Are they old enough to be treated as adults, or are they not old enough to make life and death decisions?

I have to say, this thread is really interesting in showing how an issue like this one can really throw the stereotypical "party lines" out the window. Usually you can tell, pretty accurately, who will agree with you and who won't before the thread gets going. This one is definitely making strange bedfellows out of some of us.
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post #29 of 121
5/20/09 at 8:16pm
Interesting thought Heidi.....so is he a child or an adult?

I do also agree, if he thought chemo was bad....imagine what his death will be like. He won't get a chance to grow up, won't graduate high school, go to college.....does he fully realize the implications of this decision? Can we really expect a 13 y/o to make such a decision? It's like "OK, do you wish to die for your parent's/your religion or suffer through chemo & likely live?"

The one thing I hate is the religion aspect of this. I don't like the "can of worms" this will open up re: religion & medicine - I forsee many more religion vs. medicine court battles in the near future, more than normal.
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post #30 of 121
5/20/09 at 9:11pm
Thirteen year old girls shouldn't be allowed to have abortions without parental consent, and a thirteen year old boy should be allowed to make that decision. The judge had it right, he was going to let the boy have his way IF the prognosis wasn't good which it was. I think the mother has some mental problems too.

Yes, I have had someone close to me go through chemo. Recently.
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