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Nancy Pelosi accuses the CIA of lying

post #1 of 17
5/15/09 at 5:37pm
Thread Starter 
Nancy Pelosi has changed her story at least 3 different times about enhanced interrogation techniques.

First it was that they weren't briefed about it at all. Then they were briefed, but not told it was used. Then, well, yes and aide was briefed and told me that it had been used, but I had my hands tied so just back-door supported the letter of objection. (That's being disputed, it seems she did have the power and authority as ranking minority member of the Intelligence committee, and she would have known it too.) Now it's that the CIA lied to Congress (which is illegal) and it's the Bush Administration's doing. The CIA is firing right back at that allegation.

So, is Nancy twisting in the wind or did the CIA lie? What's your take on the situation? And why isn't this grabbing huge headlines in all of the mainstream media??? (closest thing on CNN.com is "CNN Wire: Gingrich rips into Pelosi"; MSNBC.com does at least have an article and analysis in their Politics section - surprising with the rabid left streak on their channel; CBSnews.com doesn't have a mention of Pelosi on their front page; ABCnews.com actually does have the CIA response in their top stories).
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post #2 of 17
5/15/09 at 5:46pm
My take on it is only my opinion; but my opinion is that far, far, FAR more people in government knew exactly what was going on than we know of thus far. And, I can't help but to think that some of the people shouting the loudest about justice and accountability are actually trying to cover what they themselves knew with a "don't look at me, the bad guys are over there" approach.
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post #3 of 17
5/15/09 at 6:31pm
Maybe it's just me but I've been always been under the impression that Pelosi is too stupid to be involved with any briefings.

It's all about CYA.
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post #4 of 17
5/15/09 at 8:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
Now it's that the CIA lied to Congress (which is illegal) and it's the Bush Administration's doing. The CIA is firing right back at that allegation.

So, is Nancy twisting in the wind or did the CIA lie?
Last year I borrowed a number of books about the CIA, and even if only 1/100th of what I read is true, there is a whole lot that the CIA can do that is "off the books" and the President while "in the know" has deniability of knowing about it, all for the sake of popularity.

The CIA does a whole lot of things that are both illegal and unethical all in the name of fighting terrorism. Will they let someone hang out to dry to protect themselves and their agenda? Of course. To do otherwise would be stupid on their part.
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post #5 of 17
5/15/09 at 9:15pm
To be honest, when it comes to fighting terrorism, I really don't feel a need to know everything that is done by the government or the CIA.
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post #6 of 17
5/16/09 at 6:55am
I watched some of the video of Pelosi's press conference the other day.
She looked very nervous and had to read every word off her notes.
I think she knew. My question is, why would the CIA brief them on something they weren't doing?

It seems Barack is steering clear of it, very smart of him.

I think it was a huge mistake on Pelosi's part to call the CIA liars.
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post #7 of 17
5/16/09 at 8:54am
Pelosi has now backtracked and said it was the Bush administration and not the CIA that lied to her. Handy fall guy.

She's in deep trouble, even with her own party. I suspect she is trying to extricate herself from her accusations now. You do NOT want the CIA or the intelligence community as an enemy if you want any long-term power in the government; they have a long memory, and they have long-term interests that they will protect.

I have heard journalists say that the CIA has already contacted them about showing them the proof Pelosi is lying.
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post #8 of 17
5/16/09 at 11:34am
I think she's nuts. She should have just said something like "it was after 9/11, we were all scared and went too far" and instead of lying just apologize. Now she's in more trouble than she ever would have been since she can't get her story straight, it's pretty clear to me she's gotta be the one lying.
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post #9 of 17
5/16/09 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
And why isn't this grabbing huge headlines in all of the mainstream media??? (closest thing on CNN.com is "CNN Wire: Gingrich rips into Pelosi"; MSNBC.com does at least have an article and analysis in their Politics section - surprising with the rabid left streak on their channel; CBSnews.com doesn't have a mention of Pelosi on their front page; ABCnews.com actually does have the CIA response in their top stories).
It is grabbing headlines, but one has to look at sites that offer more than sound bites.

From the Washington Post:
Pelosi Accuses CIA of 'Misleading' Her on Interrogations

Accusations Flying In Interrogation Battle


CIA Chief Rebuts Pelosi's Charges

Quote:
"I'm sure Karl Rove is proud that the Republicans found a way to criticize Nancy Pelosi for not doing enough to stop the same illegal practices that they supported and continue to defend," said Rep. John Yarmuth (Ky.). "It's clearly a desperate attempt to find any political traction with an American public that has given up on them."
From the New York Times:
Pelosi Says She Knew of Waterboarding by 2003

In Detainee Furor, a Rare Stumble by Pelosi

From the LA Times:
Pelosi says CIA misled Congress about waterboarding


Panetta fires back at Pelosi on interrogations

From the Wall Street Journal:
Pelosi and CIA Clash Over Contents of Key Briefing

CIA Chief Rebuts Pelosi on Briefings

All this controversy seems like a good way (smoke and mirrors?) to prevent the establishment of a "truth commission", as some Democrats, including Pelosi, have demanded.
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post #10 of 17
5/16/09 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
I have heard journalists say that the CIA has already contacted them about showing them the proof Pelosi is lying.
Which in my eyes means nothing. Proof can be doctored when there is a need. The CIA is a highly secret organization that can make things happen and make things appear anyway they want.

I agree, you sure don't want to get on the bad side of that organization.

Am I paranoid of "big brother?" You bet! These intelligence agencies have the means to watch anyone and anything they want and be able to cover up and deny every last deed they do. Very many things that they have done, are doing and will do in the future will never ever be made known to the public, no matter what the cost of them keeping it under wraps.
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post #11 of 17
5/16/09 at 8:52pm
Thread Starter 
...and there are so many conspiracy theories about these agencies it's not even funny. Not a big fan of conspiracy theories, personally. If they wanted to hide these enhanced interrogation techniques, they could have.

They did brief Congress, or at least the Intelligence Committee, who they were supposed to brief. Timeline and what was exactly said as a side note, they did do the briefings. I do know that they can and have and do keep operations from the general public. I think that's part of their job; we don't need to know everything that happens in that realm. They didn't keep this behind the scenes, they haven't changed their story, and there are others on the Intelligence Committee who back up their story. Pelosi, on the other hand, has repeatedly changed her story and even her own party is getting fed up with it.
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post #12 of 17
5/16/09 at 10:15pm
Intelligence agencies are all about conspiracy. It's their job to collect information: They conspire to collect it so of course there are going to be theories on how they go about it and whether they are going about it legally, morally or not. And a lot of times, it's not legal and/or moral. The only difference is that sometimes they get caught and they have to either cover it up or attempt to explain it away using any means that they have available to them, including pinning the blame on someone else. Better to take down one than an entire agency.

History has shown time and again that you can't always get the information that you want and need, legally and/or morally. However, history has also shown that if you torture someone enough, you can get them to say and admit to crimes that happened on another planet, so it's not a hugely reliable means of gaining accurate information.

Am I for torture? No of course not. But I tend to stick my head in the sand when it comes to certain situations that I know are taking place but I just can't bring myself to think about.
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post #13 of 17
5/17/09 at 2:13pm
Thread Starter 
That's all fine and good, but what does it have to do with Pelosi and what she knew and when she knew it?
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post #14 of 17
5/17/09 at 5:20pm
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/05/1...on-her-claims/

Link above to a statement Pelosi made to CNN regarding information gleaned from Abu Zubaydah by interrogation. Pelosi, knew, no one can say she didn't know IMO.
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post #15 of 17
5/19/09 at 2:40pm
I think Pelosi is a disgrace. Just fess up for god's sake.

I don't think any of us need to know anything the CIA is doing if it is for the good of the country. Problem is, some of them are power hounds.
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post #16 of 17
5/20/09 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
Which in my eyes means nothing. Proof can be doctored when there is a need. The CIA is a highly secret organization that can make things happen and make things appear anyway they want.

I agree, you sure don't want to get on the bad side of that organization.

Am I paranoid of "big brother?" You bet! These intelligence agencies have the means to watch anyone and anything they want and be able to cover up and deny every last deed they do. Very many things that they have done, are doing and will do in the future will never ever be made known to the public, no matter what the cost of them keeping it under wraps.
Well Said!
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post #17 of 17
5/21/09 at 6:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
Last year I borrowed a number of books about the CIA, and even if only 1/100th of what I read is true, there is a whole lot that the CIA can do that is "off the books" and the President while "in the know" has deniability of knowing about it, all for the sake of popularity.

The CIA does a whole lot of things that are both illegal and unethical all in the name of fighting terrorism. Will they let someone hang out to dry to protect themselves and their agenda? Of course. To do otherwise would be stupid on their part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
Which in my eyes means nothing. Proof can be doctored when there is a need. The CIA is a highly secret organization that can make things happen and make things appear anyway they want.

I agree, you sure don't want to get on the bad side of that organization.

Am I paranoid of "big brother?" You bet! These intelligence agencies have the means to watch anyone and anything they want and be able to cover up and deny every last deed they do. Very many things that they have done, are doing and will do in the future will never ever be made known to the public, no matter what the cost of them keeping it under wraps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
Intelligence agencies are all about conspiracy. It's their job to collect information: They conspire to collect it so of course there are going to be theories on how they go about it and whether they are going about it legally, morally or not. And a lot of times, it's not legal and/or moral. The only difference is that sometimes they get caught and they have to either cover it up or attempt to explain it away using any means that they have available to them, including pinning the blame on someone else. Better to take down one than an entire agency.

History has shown time and again that you can't always get the information that you want and need, legally and/or morally. However, history has also shown that if you torture someone enough, you can get them to say and admit to crimes that happened on another planet, so it's not a hugely reliable means of gaining accurate information.

Am I for torture? No of course not. But I tend to stick my head in the sand when it comes to certain situations that I know are taking place but I just can't bring myself to think about.
But Linda, this thread isn't about what the CIA does or doesn't do. It's about Pelosi. The CIA stuff is fodder for a whole other thread.
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