English Language

yosemite

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The thread on learning a different language got me thinking about this. Sunday hubby and I were out driving and somehow the subject of English came up. He says it is too difficult to learn and that he has no problem with our younger generation not using the language correctly, or spelling correctly. I, on the other hand, cringe when I see the language abused and misspelled words drive me crazy. I'd hate to see our language go defunct and said to hubby that if we don't have a set language/spelling and everyone just spelled the way things sound to them, we wouldn't have any proper literature anymore and we may have troubling understanding each other and communicating. He disagrees.

I was in a large department store the other day and a huge black sign indicated the stationery department. Unfortunately the word stationery was misspelled as stationary.

I see a lot of use of "their" instead of "there" and vice-versa. Also improper use of "to" and "too". Another one I see frequently here is "loose" instead of "lose".

How do some others of you feel about our language and it's demise?
 

darkmavis

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My mom and I both become The Grammar Police at times. The misuse of its and it's bugs the heck out of me, as well as a lot of other things... There are rules for a reason!!


But then at the same time I've been known to totally blank on such things as stationery/stationary and compliment/complement, etc. and to be lazy at times with proper punctuation and whatnot...
 

goldenkitty45

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I think its really sad. I don't mind using the computer shorthand language, but if the kids do not know how to spell properly, we are in HUGE trouble by the next generation!
 

cat.ling

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I think there could be more of an effort to educate people about grammar rules, but at the same time languages always evolve over time. Spellings and grammar change, but that doesn't necessarily mean the language is going defunct.
 
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yosemite

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Originally Posted by Cat.Ling

I think there could be more of an effort to educate people about grammar rules, but at the same time languages always evolve over time. Spellings and grammar change, but that doesn't necessarily mean the language is going defunct.
I believe we add words to our language but I honestly feel that if we don't keep our spelling and grammar correct, our younger folks will age with no language/spelling skills which in turn will pass down to their children and before we know it the English language as we know it will no longer be recognizable.
 

ut0pia

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I think the spellcheck feature is responsible for this!! I hate it..
I used to NEVER misspell words until I started using MS word to type all of my papers. I used to never understand HOW people write their instead of there and such because it's a different word with an entirely different meaning....
But now, when I'm taking notes in class by hand I find myself wondering how to spell words, words that I used to know how to spell in 3rd grade... It's scaring me.
Or another one of my theories is that after reading more and expanding my vocabulary it's all gotten mixed up in my head...I dunno.
I don't think the english language will change like that though, I think it will be preserved because at most jobs communication is key, people email each other back and forth and if someone is used to writing in shorthand and with poor grammar will learn when they get to a job like this- otherwise they'd be embarassed.
 

katiemae1277

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I think that is important to use proper spelling and grammar in formal settings like writing reports, presentations for work, letters to the editor, that sort of thing. I don't mind shorthand on the internet, I use thru all the time
Misspelling does bother me, especially if it's an "easy" word and obviously a misspelling and not just a typo. Text speak used anywhere other than texting is just lazy IMO
 

denice

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I know some words have two spellings each of which are considered correct depending on the country you are in. One is grey and gray. One spelling is used in the U.S. the other in Britain. I don't know that either spelling is actually incorrect.
 

sarahp

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I'm a stickler for spelling and grammar, and I don't use text speak or shortened forms anywhere - it drives me nuts. It takes the same amount of time to spell correctly. If you don't have enough characters to spell properly what you need to say in a text message, then call the person


My children will be reading and writing from early on, and they WILL be good spellers.

If someone decides that you can just spell things however you please, how are you supposed to look up the meaning of a word you don't know? How are you supposed to find information on the subject when everyone spells a different way? How are you supposed to read things and get all the pronunciations correct if you can't figure out what word they're trying to use? There's a good reason to why things are spelled one way only.

Originally Posted by Cat.Ling

I think there could be more of an effort to educate people about grammar rules, but at the same time languages always evolve over time. Spellings and grammar change, but that doesn't necessarily mean the language is going defunct.
I really don't think spelling or grammar has changed much - more people just get lazy and spell things wrong.

Originally Posted by katiemae1277

Text speak used anywhere other than texting is just lazy IMO
See the irony in this sentence?
 

strange_wings

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Originally Posted by Denice

I know some words have two spellings each of which are considered correct depending on the country you are in. One is grey and gray. One spelling is used in the U.S. the other in Britain. I don't know that either spelling is actually incorrect.
I use grey. I blame reading too many books coming from other countries and friends.
But I've always spelled aluminium with an i, too, the British spelling for it.

Originally Posted by ut0pia

I think the spellcheck feature is responsible for this!! I hate it.
It's actually helped me. But I try to actually pay attention to how I misspelled a word so I don't do so in the future. Surprisingly, before chatting online my spelling was terrible. For some reason my brain just wouldn't retain certain words. Now I can even spell a lot of really long medical words without thinking about it.


We've had several threads about this in the past. For the most part we all tend to have the same view - people should make an effort to try to use proper grammar and spelling, especially native speakers (non natives are always forgiven because learning a language is hard).

I think what matters the most is that people show some effort. If you never capitalize or even end your sentences in periods, it's obvious to others you're simply not trying at all. If your posts get skipped, it's your own fault for making it so difficult to read.
Otherwise we all make little mistakes. I have to edit several times, often, because I'll see some little mistake I made that I didn't noticed till coming back and reading it later.
 
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yosemite

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Originally Posted by Denice

I know some words have two spellings each of which are considered correct depending on the country you are in. One is grey and gray. One spelling is used in the U.S. the other in Britain. I don't know that either spelling is actually incorrect.
If both versions are considered correct in either the Webster or Oxford dictionary (I prefer the Oxford), then I don't have a problem with that. I'm more annoyed by the incorrect use of language, such as I mentioned originally, to/too; their/there/they're; lose/loose, etc.

Originally Posted by sarahp

I'm a stickler for spelling and grammar, and I don't use text speak or shortened forms anywhere - it drives me nuts. It takes the same amount of time to spell correctly. If you don't have enough characters to spell properly what you need to say in a text message, then call the person


My children will be reading and writing from early on, and they WILL be good spellers.

If someone decides that you can just spell things however you please, how are you supposed to look up the meaning of a word you don't know? How are you supposed to find information on the subject when everyone spells a different way? How are you supposed to read things and get all the pronunciations correct if you can't figure out what word they're trying to use? There's a good reason to why things are spelled one way only.



I really don't think spelling or grammar has changed much - more people just get lazy and spell things wrong.



See the irony in this sentence?
I think the reason you feel that way is that you were educated in Australia where spelling/grammar were considered important just as in Canada I was taught British spelling and grammar as we were considered a British colony. I believe some of that has changed in Canada over the last few years but when I went to school we learned the British spelling/grammar.

Originally Posted by strange_wings

I use grey. I blame reading too many books coming from other countries and friends.
But I've always spelled aluminium with an i, too, the British spelling for it.

It's actually helped me. But I try to actually pay attention to how I misspelled a word so I don't do so in the future. Surprisingly, before chatting online my spelling was terrible. For some reason my brain just wouldn't retain certain words. Now I can even spell a lot of really long medical words without thinking about it.


We've had several threads about this in the past. For the most part we all tend to have the same view - people should make an effort to try to use proper grammar and spelling, especially native speakers (non natives are always forgiven because learning a language is hard).

I think what matters the most is that people show some effort. If you never capitalize or even end your sentences in periods, it's obvious to others you're simply not trying at all. If your posts get skipped, it's your own fault for making it so difficult to read.
Otherwise we all make little mistakes. I have to edit several times, often, because I'll see some little mistake I made that I didn't noticed till coming back and reading it later.
We all make typos but that's not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking more about the actual total misuse of words and incorrect spelling of words. I also have come back and had to edit my posts, like adding an "s", deleting an extra "the", that sort of thing.
 

katiemae1277

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Originally Posted by sarahp

See the irony in this sentence?
true! but IMO is a lot shorter than in my opinion
and most people use that, it's kinda of a "forum" thing?
 
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yosemite

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Originally Posted by katiemae1277

true! but IMO is a lot shorter than in my opinion
I don't have a problem with using acronyms in forums or chat rooms. Acronyms are not bad grammar, incorrect usage of words, nor are they misspelled so they don't really fit in with my original question. I'm more concerned with our younger generation not being able to write a formal business letter a few years down the road because they will not have learned the spelling or grammar that would enable them to do so. Spellcheck does not pick up on incorrect usuage of things like their/there. As long as the word is spelled correctly it does not recognize that it is used incorrectly.
 

ut0pia

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spellcheck is bad for the same kind of misspells like mentioned in the OP- stationary instead of stationery. It will probably just correct it automatically without even calling your attention to it!
Sometimes I will write its instead of it's when i'm in a hurry or i'm passionately or anxiously trying to explain something
while not minding my grammar on instant messenger. Same with too and two. If i'm not paying attention to grammar I just write whatever it sounds like in my head..It's a trick my brain is playing on me and it only happens when i'm typing really fast because I know the difference and I never do it when I'm handwriting. It doesn't make sense because two and too are just really hard to confuse and I don't know how it happens. Maybe it's not my brain, maybe it's my hands that are playing a trick on me. You know what else has happened, sometimes I will start typing and type a word that I didn't mean to type, it's usually a really really common word that my fingers are so used to typing....and I'm like "what just happened" LOL
 

lil maggie

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Yes, I get annnoyed seeing people misspell words like to/too, their/there/they're. What also bothers me is the exchange of E's for 3's. I notice it even with tv shows like NUMB3RS. I get it that it's because it's a play on the word for the show but I see kids using it all the time.
 

sarahp

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Originally Posted by Yosemite

We all make typos but that's not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking more about the actual total misuse of words and incorrect spelling of words. I also have come back and had to edit my posts, like adding an "s", deleting an extra "the", that sort of thing.
Haha I always go back and correct my typos too
I type fast and don't check over what I wrote, and I often miss words because my brain is going faster than my fingers, but I generally go back and fix it if I notice it.

I do think the British system emphasises proper use of words, and places a high degree of importance on spelling and grammar.

From what I've seen of the US system, there's not that same emphasis. I think a lot of it is due to lack of resources and funding, so teachers just do what they can with what they have.

Originally Posted by katiemae1277

true! but IMO is a lot shorter than in my opinion
and most people use that, it's kinda of a "forum" thing?
Hehe, I know - I consider those sort of things necessary in "forum speak"
 

strange_wings

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Originally Posted by ut0pia

Maybe it's not my brain, maybe it's my hands that are playing a trick on me. You know what else has happened, sometimes I will start typing and type a word that I didn't mean to type, it's usually a really really common word that my fingers are so used to typing....and I'm like "what just happened" LOL
My brain and fingers seem to go on auto pilot, too. It's fine when you can edit what you've written, but in IM or chat putting the wrong word in completely is embarrassing.


Though, if we want to get really nit picky look at all of your I'm's.
Oddly, most of your I's are fine!

Originally Posted by sarahp

From what I've seen of the US system, there's not that same emphasis. I think a lot of it is due to lack of resources and funding, so teachers just do what they can with what they have.
This is mostly dependent on the type of teachers one had. I had a high school English teacher that was a bit over the top, expecting things that were not even done in college... and on bad time scales. I think she would have preferred being an AP teacher, but my school didn't have any AP classes.
Another part of it is how much one has read, how early they started reading, and what they read. If you're reading classics when you're 10-12 you're much more likely to have a better grasp of language and grammar than one who doesn't read. Though there's also learning disabilities that a lot of schools do not look for or try to support.
That goes back into funding, of course.
 

ut0pia

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^Reading definitely has a big part in it. Kids who read a lot will use their grammar perfectly without even having learned the rules of grammar, just intuitively..
And also, and this is more for spreaking properly: it matters whether parents read to their children before children can read on their own.
 

strange_wings

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Originally Posted by ut0pia

And also, and this is more for spreaking properly: it matters whether parents read to their children before children can read on their own.
Mine never did. I can't even recall if I've ever seen my father reading a book...
I did have an uncle who would read the Sunday paper to me, books about military craft and such, and science. I honestly do not know when I actually learned to read! I just remember actually reading through some of those books by myself during the afternoons when my mother was laying down or watching tv. This would have been around when I was 4-5, before starting school. I also remember going to the library around that time to get field guides and other similar books.

I think pushing kids not to get cutesy picture books in kindergarten to second grade would probably help. I had to beg the librarian and sneak over to actually get decent books. (if my kindergarten teacher was around she wouldn't let me grab the books intended for second - forth grade)
 

ut0pia

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

Mine never did. I can't even recall if I've ever seen my father reading a book...
I did have an uncle who would read the Sunday paper to me, books about military craft and such, and science. I honestly do not know when I actually learned to read! I just remember actually reading through some of those books by myself during the afternoons when my mother was laying down or watching tv. This would have been around when I was 4-5, before starting school. I also remember going to the library around that time to get field guides and other similar books.

I think pushing kids not to get cutesy picture books in kindergarten to second grade would probably help. I had to beg the librarian and sneak over to actually get decent books. (if my kindergarten teacher was around she wouldn't let me grab the books intended for second - forth grade)
My dad was the same way, his parents never read to him but he read a lot as soon as knew how. I was the opposite I didn't like to read as a kid but my mom always read to me (I did like to listen to people read to me) and was pushing me to read when I got older, she would make me read for 2 hours every day during summer vacations...Eventually I started to enjoy reading on my own but i'd probably be one of those people who never read a book in their lives if it wasn't for my parents reading to me and pushing me to read classics as a kid...
i guess it depends on the kid's disposition..some kids probably need that push by parents.
 
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