Hannity agrees to be Waterboarded

And Keith will double it if Sean admits that he feared for his life. So many people brush off waterboarding as if its not torture. By paying $1000 per second, Keith forces Sean to stay with it long enough to understand that it is torture.

Hannity is a fool. He's making a joke of torture. REALLY BAD. Is he still trying to protect Bush?

Didn't they used to call this the "Chinese Water Torture"? There was a reason for that name. Were they trying to get politically correct by changing the name to something more innocent, like "Waterboarding"?

Yet one more pundit publicity stunt.

If he were to "withstand" the torture, opponents would simply say that the administers were proponents and did a far, far less thorough job with the waterboarding than was used on the detainees.

If he succumbs to the torture, proponents would simply say that the administers were opponents that did a far, far more severe job with the waterboarding than was used on the detainees.

Who told him that it was something only used seconds at a time, anyway? Have we seen anything yet describing how many seconds, or hours, this went on?

I'm lost. What is "waterboarded"?

Chinese water torture is something completely different. It involves a slow drip of water with the drops coming several minutes apart. After a period of hours / days, the victim will be driven crazy anticipating the next drop. It's much more of a mental torture rather than a physical thing. We did call waterboarding just 'water torture' back when I was in the service. The name was changed, I'm sure, under the "if we don't call it torture, it isn't" philosophy, just as the term "harsh interrogation techniques" was used rather than the term torture.

As for Hannity's waterboarding, it wouldn't be the first. It seems that I recall a CNN reporter letting himself be waterboarded a couple of years ago. But even if he were the first, it would be an apples and oranges comparison. Hannity (or Olbermann for that matter) will KNOW that they're not going to be killed during the interrogation and more than likely they would have some sort of pre-arranged signal to tell the torturers "OK, I've had enough." It would still be pretty crappy, but if you're not afraid the torturers are really going to drown you, it loses a lot of its sting.

I was listening to a conservative radio talk show earlier and they were discussing exactly what Grogs is saying, that it is argued that since Hannity will know he is safe it won't be the same experience that inmates have.
Their counter argument to that was that inmates are not stupid they actually read the reports that come out of the US government and they know the US government's intention of not killing anyone and just intimidating and scaring them all to get info out of them so it won't be that much different than Hannity's. To some extent they are right, but one thing is to read a report and another is to actually be faced with all those techniques, nowhere can they get information about to what extent US enforces the guidelines that are in those reports.

They were describing waterboarding on NPR the other day. They read from the manual that the military uses to do it. I'm going to get a lot of it wrong, but it's basically this. They place a piece of cloth over your mouth and nose and fill it with water. This blocks oxygen to the person. The person experiences a sense of drowning and loses consciousness, but the cloth is removed before the person actually stops breathing. They repeat this (according to the manual) for 20 minutes.

I couldn't find the recent radio discussion, but found this history of waterboarding with descriptions on how it has been done over the years:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=15886834

If Hannity wants to do this, I hope they do it per the government issued manual.

Yes, it isn't torture as some would lead us to believe And who cares if it is? After all these people killed how many??
Hannity is no fool and waterboarding is not torture. Bush protected us from more attacks, our new president and his administration will not. I think he (Obama and his clan) are the real fools here.

Well everyone has his opinions but IMHO torture is something used in the middle ages. What keeps people disciplined and obeying authority is simply all the knowledge, ability reason that we now have that wasn't there in the middle ages. So I think in the 21st century torture and intimidation SHOULD be obsolete. However, in the muslim world it's different- they are still operating on the level of the middle ages, science and knowledge is something they do not care for. So I dunno, I think i'm okay with waterboarding when it comes to muslim terrorists. They are all just socialized in a different world, one a normal western individual cannot understand and our rules don't apply there.

Gee...we've been told the entire world knows what it is, and considers the US a "barbaric nation" for using it on 3 terrorists.

The grand poobah of Al Qaeda put up with it for less than 2 minutes before he broke.

It may be torture, in the strictest sense of the word, but it is to what most consider torture as a kitten is to a lion.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/water-boarding.htm

There's a website about it.

I agree mostly on the basis that these people have no problems committing suicide for something they believe in - thusly threatening them with death gets you nowhere. Also what did they/would they do to our soldiers if they captured them? I'm pretty sure they wouldn't all sit down together and have a civilized talk. I'm not saying going down to their level is a good thing, but it's WAR. War isn't fair, it's not pretty, people die, period.

What you both appear to be implying is that there are no moral absolutes, i.e., torture is acceptable when used on some individuals because "they" are different from "us". Could you explain how that attitude differs from the mindset of terrorists vis-Ã:censor:-vis "nonbelievers"?

Assuming that's true, what's the justification for using it so many times?
Waterboarding Used 266 Times on 2 Suspects


DOJ Memo: CIA Report Claims 9/11 Mastermind Waterboarded 183 Times


Is waterboarding effective? CIA did it 266 times on two prisoners

Let them do it to him, I hate how people talk about what they are going to do but are too chicken to do it. If he doesnt believe it is torture then it should just be like taking a shower to him....

This is torture, IMO. And yes these terrorists "deserve" to be punished, but does that mean we have to do it in such a way? No. America is supposed to be the "good" guys, the brave, the honest, the noble....but doing stuff like this among other things is none of those, it shows us being just like them, justifying what they did, or DO, because we torture them, they in turn are just going to get even more mad and attack us. They want us to do this to them, it shows how evil we are to the world. Aside from that deep down, i would love to see the people who attacked our country suffer, but 2 wrongs never make a right. You always need to look at WHY people do things in the first place, these terrorists didnt just one day wake up and say I want to kill Americans, that hatred came from somewhere. If we try to understand them and all maybe we could i dunno maybe try and fix the problem? As for getting info out of these people, well maybe we could tickle them into talking Always worked for me

I'm really biased when it comes to dealings with muslim fundamentalists. I really believe they are ages behind the west and cannot be dealt with the way we deall with people in our world. I have a muslim friend whose parents are kind of fundamentalist, he said that the way they raised him - he was having trouble reconsiling the fact that he is communicating with a jewish man who was his teacher in high school. He was always taught that jews should be shunned. My friend no longer believes any of this crazyness and shares with me all of the ridiculous things he's been taught. It's scary. Honestly I don't think any westerner can understand any of it, it just seems irrational!! Like another one of my muslim friends' grandmother was killed by his grandfather because she didn't cook him a good dinner one day. Who could EVER understand any of this???

If Hannity wants to do it, let him. I watched an episode of Myth Busters were the red-haired female myth buster was subjected to Chinese water torture, while being strapped down. I can't remember how long she lasted, but she was becoming terrified and they had to stop the experiment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFFslAjUyj4

It's much more than a simple case of "they" are different from "us". There is no moral equivalence between the United States or any other country which values human life and the Islamic terrorists whose singular purpose it is to eradicate non-believers. They seek to destroy western civilization.

The numbers are incorrect. It refers to numbers of "pours", not number of actual sessions of waterboarding. KSM himself has stated he was waterboarded 5 times.



Nothing "that we have done" justifies any of the despicable acts of terrorism by demented Islamo-facists. It's insanity masquerading as religious belief. We should not hamstring ourselves out of fear that "they're just going to get more mad". What in the world would they do to us if they did get angrier? Kill some Americans? Oh, right...

"If only we tried to understand where the hatred comes from we could fix the problem" does not work. There is the implication in this line of reasoning that Americans have committed some transgression that has angered the terrorists. Do you know what we've done "wrong"? We're Americans. We enjoy liberty and the prosperity that comes from having freedom. Some of us are Muslim, but more of us are Christian, and some don't have religion at all. Along with our lifestyle, this is unacceptable to those who follow the perversion of Islam that we see manifested in terrorism.

Waterboarding is not used as a "punishment". It's a method of obtaining information from what are known as "high-value detainees", those terrorists in the upper levels of al-Qaeda, the "masterminds". (BTW, hundreds of US soldiers and Navy Seals are subjected to waterboarding to prepare them for it in the event of capture.) The US uses it as a way of extracting information, not confessions from high-level detainees. In addition to special CIA agents and military personnel, trained in using the method, there are doctors present. Strict guidelines and safeguards are in place which dictate down to the second how long a session lasts, how much water may be used, how often, etc. Something else that the media fails to mention is that the terrorist is told he will not be killed, so there isn't nearly the psychological impact as many previously thought.

There is no denying that waterboarding is a harsh method, but it is effective and has provided invaluable information to those charged with protecting US citizens. By declassifying all details of the waterboarding program, the present administration has foolishly and unnecessarily hindered our ability to keep this nation safe.

Hi,

in American prisons you'll find people who have beaten their wives or killed someone out of greed. You could consider this as "operating on the level of the middle ages"- so would it be OK to waterboard an American to- lets say find out were he/she has hidden the body of a victim?


Do you think your goverment will draw a line there and just waterboard muslims? Or do you think there could come a time when Americans could be subjected to torture by their own goverment? McCarthy had quite a which hunt on for un-american behaviour, if I remember correctly. Would it have been OK for McCarthy to order waterboarding on suspected communists?

So if it is OK for the US to decide to use different standards on muslim terrorists- is it OK for muslim countries to use torture on American soldiers according to their own standards? Every country simply makes their own standards on whom and how they will torture?

Are you so sure that all of the watertorture victims really were muslim terrorists? No mistakes were made there? Or is it just personal bad luck if one gets watertortured by mistake?

regards,

christine

...............

Feeling like you're about to drownd 266 times in aa row sounds quite terrible to me.


Don't you think it's a bit strange that for example Canada isn't hated throughout the world? Although it is just as free, un- muslim and rich as the USA?

you might find this site interesting:

http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/hateamerica.html

Not even WANTING to understand others might not be the way forward in my opinion.


christine

I agree with you!!! Guess they just don't make Americans like they used to ---look at the atrocities that the Japanese & the Germans used on our POWs, yet our fathers and grandfathers weren't out screaming that we should do the same. No, we were the Americans, the free and the brave, the Beacon of Democracy and Justice that shone throughout the rest of the world
And for anyone who honestly feels that the Muslims are out to get "us" just because of religion, they really, really need to check out some alternate media, such as FreespeechTV and/or WorldLinkTV and see why people feel like they do. Poverty and the sights and sounds of their children dying do so much to parents' hearts; the experience of growing up in an area where 3 out of 5 children will die before they reach 15 causes a different outlook to a young person's mind.
Heck, even a check on history might reveal why the Middle East isn't exactly happy with the Western World. The British conquered & divided, and when were the conquered ever happy about that
Would we like it if China uses their financial and military power, and takes our US lands for the resources, then divies our states into regions of their own making??? Would we just "take it", esp. if they told us we couldn't be Christians any more???

How do you understand someone who thinks it's okay to kill women and not face punishment??? someone who thinks all jews should be killed??
I've tried, and i've tried hard to understand muslim fundamentalists..but I just can't wrap my head around their beliefs.
The US is most likely hated simply because of usual role as a peace maker, always trying to intervene in everything...I don't think the US should be a peace maker, I think every country should fend for itself, the US brought this muslim conflict on ourselves IMO.

If I'm not mistaken they do this already. No every country shouldn't make their own standards, we should not torture, that's how I think it would be in an ideal world, but that's provided that every single country agrees to this- If these countries deny any kind of communicaton with the west and reject everything western, refuse to any agreements, then I think they are beyond the point in which we can treat them humanely if we cannot reason with them. I don't think it's possible to reason with Muslim fundamentalists.

And you don't think this will start an upwards sprial of world wide torture? If it is OK for America to tortures enemies to get information- shouldn't it be OK for other countries to torture Americans? The Geneva convention is a frail thing, and breaking it can't be a good idea. Why should any country stick to it if the American's won't?

a "little bit" of torture will lead to "a little bit more" torture and so on.

Do you for example think there would be less land mines around if the US had signed the Mine Ban treaty? Land mines do tend to explod, regardless if it is a child stepping on them or an enemy soldier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa_Treaty



Christine

Which is by the way, one of the main reason why Germany is a stable democracy now .

People of my dads age still remeber American planes dropping off sweets over Berlin or been given a bar of chocolate. The Marschall Plan was essential to that too, without it Germany might have not been built up to what you guys here call "western standards".


christine

Your dad sure raised his girl right - you have done well at paying attention to history
Maybe Sean Hannity's experience will open a few minds and hearts - one can only pray & hope

Have you guys ever communicated with anyone muslim on a personal basis?? One of my muslim friends rejects what all of those fundamentalists are doing, considers himself secular and non religious but will still avoid talking and even thinking about all of this because it makes them feel sinful and wrong to call them out and say out loud that they are wrong, it's just what muslim indoctrination has done for him...It scares me how people can be subjected to this. It really opens my eyes to how different they are and how our power organization is not effective on them.
cjh27 I know you're in Germany so you must know many turks. I must say though European muslims are just not the same, I know many turkish myself and they are just totally secular ..
I really felt the same way you do- I was sure the US MUST NOT EVER TORTURE. Until some things just opened my eyes.