Originally Posted by jcat
What you both appear to be implying is that there are no moral absolutes, i.e., torture is acceptable when used on some individuals because "they" are different from "us". Could you explain how that attitude differs from the mindset of terrorists vis-Ã:censor:-vis "nonbelievers"?
It's much more than a simple case of "they" are different from "us". There is no moral equivalence between the United States or any other country which values human life and the Islamic terrorists whose singular purpose it is to eradicate
non-believers. They seek to destroy western civilization.
The numbers are incorrect. It refers to numbers of "pours", not number of actual sessions of waterboarding. KSM himself has stated he was waterboarded 5 times.
Originally Posted by JuneBugBear07
This is torture, IMO. And yes these terrorists "deserve" to be punished, but does that mean we have to do it in such a way? No. America is supposed to be the "good" guys, the brave, the honest, the noble....but doing stuff like this among other things is none of those, it shows us being just like them, justifying what they did, or DO, because we torture them, they in turn are just going to get even more mad and attack us. They want us to do this to them, it shows how evil we are to the world. Aside from that deep down, i would love to see the people who attacked our country suffer, but 2 wrongs never make a right. You always need to look at WHY people do things in the first place, these terrorists didnt just one day wake up and say I want to kill Americans, that hatred came from somewhere. If we try to understand them and all maybe we could i dunno maybe try and fix the problem?
As for getting info out of these people, well maybe we could tickle them into talking
Always worked for me
"that we have done" justifies any of the despicable acts of terrorism by demented Islamo-facists. It's insanity masquerading as religious belief. We should not hamstring ourselves out of fear that "they're just going to get more mad". What in the world would they do to us if they did
get angrier? Kill some Americans? Oh, right...
"If only we tried to understand where the hatred comes from we could fix the problem" does not work
. There is the implication in this line of reasoning that Americans have committed some transgression that has angered the terrorists. Do you know what we've done "wrong"? We're Americans. We enjoy liberty and the prosperity that comes from having freedom. Some of us are Muslim, but more of us are Christian, and some don't have religion at all. Along with our lifestyle, this is unacceptable to those who follow the perversion of Islam that we see manifested in terrorism.
Waterboarding is not used as a "punishment". It's a method of obtaining information from what are known as "high-value detainees", those terrorists in the upper levels of al-Qaeda, the "masterminds". (BTW, hundreds of US soldiers and Navy Seals are subjected to waterboarding to prepare them for it in the event of capture.) The US uses it as a way of extracting information, not confessions
from high-level detainees. In addition to special CIA agents and military personnel, trained in using the method, there are doctors present. Strict guidelines and safeguards are in place which dictate down to the second how long a session lasts, how much water may be used, how often, etc. Something else that the media fails to mention is that the terrorist is told he will not
be killed, so there isn't nearly the psychological impact as many previously thought.
There is no denying that waterboarding is a harsh method, but it is effective and has provided invaluable information to those charged with protecting US citizens. By declassifying all details of the waterboarding program, the present administration has foolishly and unnecessarily hindered our ability to keep this nation safe.