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Fat is the new smoking - Page 2

post #31 of 50
Here's my problem with the original topic, smoking is a personal choice and does effect those around you. If you want to poison yourself, go ahead, but you should not be able to poison those around you while doing so. Cigarette smoking should be illegal for this very reason.
post #32 of 50
On the subject of smoking:
Quote:
“Field studies of environmental tobacco smoke indicate that under normal conditions, the components in tobacco smoke are diluted below existing Permissible Exposure Levels (PELS.) as referenced in the Air Contaminant Standard (29 CFR 1910.1000)…It would be very rare to find a workplace with so much smoking that any individual PEL would be exceeded.â€
-Letter from Greg Watchman, Acting Ass’t Sec’y, OSHA, to Leroy J Pletten, PHD, July 8, 1997
I quit smoking and I agree that people shouldn't smoke around others because it's inconsiderate BUT I don't agree with laws banning smoking in entire towns/cities. How is it possible that it's against the law to smoke outside in the open air with no one around you? How is that bothering anyone? Surely, the car and bus emissions are a far worse health risk. How is it possible that it isn't against the law to drink all night at a bar? I am absolutely sure every person in every bar isn't calling a cab when it closes. You only get a DUI and that's only if you're weaving in traffic and only if you get caught. We could debate that the individual that smokes causes health issues and raises insurance costs but so do accidents from drunk drivers, liver disease and also people eating fast foods that are mostly fat content that raises blood pressure, cholesterol ect. Where does it stop? I'm still trying to figure out how the no smoking campaign got as far as it did.
And while we're talking smoking, who is picking up the taxes the smokers were paying now that so many have quit? That's a heap of revenue. I'm sure glad I quit and not having to pick up that tab twice
post #33 of 50
One of the best theories I've heard so far is that high-fructose corn syrup is at least a significant part of the problem. It wasn't in ANYTHING we ate 30 years ago, and now it's in everything. Even cat food!
post #34 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheylink View Post
Here's my problem with the original topic, smoking is a personal choice and does effect those around you. If you want to poison yourself, go ahead, but you should not be able to poison those around you while doing so. Cigarette smoking should be illegal for this very reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lil maggie View Post
On the subject of smoking:

I quit smoking and I agree that people shouldn't smoke around others because it's inconsiderate BUT I don't agree with laws banning smoking in entire towns/cities. How is it possible that it's against the law to smoke outside in the open air with no one around you? How is that bothering anyone? Surely, the car and bus emissions are a far worse health risk. How is it possible that it isn't against the law to drink all night at a bar? I am absolutely sure every person in every bar isn't calling a cab when it closes. You only get a DUI and that's only if you're weaving in traffic and only if you get caught. We could debate that the individual that smokes causes health issues and raises insurance costs but so do accidents from drunk drivers, liver disease and also people eating fast foods that are mostly fat content that raises blood pressure, cholesterol ect. Where does it stop? I'm still trying to figure out how the no smoking campaign got as far as it did.
And while we're talking smoking, who is picking up the taxes the smokers were paying now that so many have quit? That's a heap of revenue. I'm sure glad I quit and not having to pick up that tab twice

Actually the original subject is about obesity not smoking per se.

I agree with the poster that said the problem was in processed foods. I also disagree with the poster that said "real" food was more expensive and took too long to prepare.

We do not eat processed foods and none of us have difficulty with weight even though some folks in both our backgrounds do have weight problems.

Cooking decent meals from scratch does not require extensive cooking times. Yes, if you want to make baked spareribs it may take more time to bake than you are willing to wait if you are hungry after work. Having said that, the secret is in planning meals. If I want a good beef stew which I like to simmer at least 3 hours, then I'll make it after dinner the night before and cook it until my bedtime. Tomorrow night my dinner is ready to heat and eat. I do the same with pot roast. I do everything but the gravy the night before. Pork tenderloin cut into medallions fry up quickly and then I make a cream sauce by deglazing the pan, adding chopped apples and some cream. It takes about 25-30 minutes to make including a potato for me and fresh broccoli or green beans as a vegetable.

There is a lady that works in my building whom I know to say hello to and we've chatted a couple times. I noticed lately she is looking really trim. I commented to her on it and she said she had me to thank for it which took me by surprise. I asked her how so and she said one day we were talking about weight and food and I had commented that I believed in eating what we like without eating processed/junk food but to eat in moderation. She said that is all she started doing and she started losing weight and looks great.

We don't go to McDonalds, Taco Bell, Harvey's, Wendy's, D'Arby's or any of those types of places. The thing is, once you start eating real food you won't want or like the junk stuff. My husband said that after we married, he started eating better and healthier and that now he doesn't like restaurant food. There are only a couple restaurants that he'll even consider eating at and that's because the food is well prepared.
post #35 of 50
^not only that but it's also SO MUCH cheaper to eat real foods...
We don't eat any fast food or junk food in my family either, and to me paying $6-10 for lunch sounds expensive based on the prices i'm used to. My parents probably pay around $10-20 for a family dinner for 3 people on most days, fresh vegetables and meat are just that much cheaper.
Alas, both my parents and I have weight problems. We are okay(me the least probably with my extra 10 pounds), but it's a huge struggle. I used to weigh 170 for my 5 7 height which is a lot now i weigh 155 after trying so hard.
post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
I just don't have the energy to go on about how I think that being fat is not the person's fault it's not like people say that the majority of fat people are that way due to lack of exercise..I mean since there is such a huge population of overweight people in the US it makes sense that it would be this way but that's not the whole story. Clearly there are those who really are fat due to their own lifestyle choices..
But I know many many people for who it's genetics. It's not even a medical condition such a thyroid condition or anything like that, it's simple genetics- my dad included. He is normally 230 pounds but works hard to stay at 170 which is perfect for him. If he eats normally he tends to gain weight and as soon as he catches the scale rising he starts to eat fuit salads for dinner. Is that normal? I don't think so. But that's what keeps him at a healthy weight...
One question, just what would be considered a person's own fault?

It IS our own fault when we overeat, plain and simple, no one forces food in another person's fault.

As for you Dad, what is normal? IMO, there is no normal, everyone's metabolism is different.

It is not "normal" eating for your Dad if he gains weight. Normal varies by person. "Normal" eathing for your father is what keeps him at 170 and NOT 230.
post #37 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheylink View Post
Here's my problem with the original topic, smoking is a personal choice and does effect those around you. If you want to poison yourself, go ahead, but you should not be able to poison those around you while doing so. Cigarette smoking should be illegal for this very reason.
Do you really think they should be illegal? Or was that just a typo? IMO, we already have too many illegal items and we waste too much money policing them. Make tobacco illegal would just drive it underground and, instead of making massive tax revenues off of it, the government would have to throw money down a hole in a futile attempt to stop it. As far as banning smoking in public places where it can harm or at the very least annoy other people, I have no problem with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
^not only that but it's also SO MUCH cheaper to eat real foods...
We don't eat any fast food or junk food in my family either, and to me paying $6-10 for lunch sounds expensive based on the prices i'm used to. My parents probably pay around $10-20 for a family dinner for 3 people on most days, fresh vegetables and meat are just that much cheaper.
I disagree with you here. It sounds like you're conflating going out to eat and staying in and eating a TV dinner. I can typically get a meal that can be nuked for $2-4, and something in a can (soup, ravioli, etc) typically costs ~ $1. There are also economy of scale issues to consider. The Dugger family can probably get really good deals because they can buy the super economy size for everything, but a single person has to buy the smaller sizes (and pay more) or else throw out large quantities (and pay even more). Processed foods (TV dinners and such) generally just serve 1, and last for months in any case, so this isn't an issue. If you're just referring to going out to eat, I agree with you. I generally avoid going out as much as possible.

Unfortunately, I don't see myself getting away from the processed stuff anytime soon. 25-30 minutes cooking a meal is about 24-29 minutes longer than I want to spend. Plus, I'd actually have to learn how to prepare the stuff. I could see maybe doing it on a weekend when I have a little bit of free time, but when I come in from work at 8 PM, I want something I can toss in the oven or on the stove and then be done with it.

As far as the personal responsibility for a person's weight, I think the weight needs to be looked at as a symptom, rather than the underlying root cause. Take, for example, two men of the same age, same height and build, who eat similar foods and get about the same amount of exercise. If one weighs 200 while the other weighs 250 then (assuming it's not something like a thyroid) the difference is most likely genetic. The fact that one guy is heavier, and will thus be more likely to have heart disease, is a symptom brought about by the underlying genetic cause. There are people out there who, because of their genes, remain thin on a diet of Twinkies and Big Macs and similarly there are people who eat small, balanced meals, exercise every day, and still aren't thin.
post #38 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
One question, just what would be considered a person's own fault?

It IS our own fault when we overeat, plain and simple, no one forces food in another person's fault.

As for you Dad, what is normal? IMO, there is no normal, everyone's metabolism is different.

It is not "normal" eating for your Dad if he gains weight. Normal varies by person. "Normal" eathing for your father is what keeps him at 170 and NOT 230.
You posted this while I was writing my last reply, but this is basically what my last paragraph was talking about. Yes, there really are a lot of people out there who just need to eat less and exercise more. But what about the guy who eats too much, exercises too little, and is still thin? Should he really get a lower rate on his insurance just because he happens to have been born with good genes that keep his metabolism fast enough to burn everything off? In my mind, the only fair way to handle it is either to take all of the factors into account and charge the thin guy more because of his unhealthy eating and exercise habits or just charge everyone the same amount regardless.
post #39 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
One of the best theories I've heard so far is that high-fructose corn syrup is at least a significant part of the problem. It wasn't in ANYTHING we ate 30 years ago, and now it's in everything. Even cat food!

Totally agree. HFCS graphed with obesity rates: definitely a correlation.

(I do want to note though: growing corn for this reason was meant to be a safeguard for the US never having a food shortage. It just got out of hand obviously with downsides that most likely werent expected. I also dont now if ppl realize that you can't actually eat the corn grown for corn syrup. It is different coren than what you would normally see in the produce section. That alone gives me the heebiejeebies)

HFCS is even in most bread. I also find hidden sugars by many names, HFCS or other, in almost ever commercial food brands from tuna to peanut butter. I have to spend a lot extra on my food bill to avoid HFCS and hidden sugars (and trans fat - also linked to obesity).
post #40 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grogs View Post
I disagree with you here. It sounds like you're conflating going out to eat and staying in and eating a TV dinner. I can typically get a meal that can be nuked for $2-4, and something in a can (soup, ravioli, etc) typically costs ~ $1. There are also economy of scale issues to consider. The Dugger family can probably get really good deals because they can buy the super economy size for everything, but a single person has to buy the smaller sizes (and pay more) or else throw out large quantities (and pay even more). Processed foods (TV dinners and such) generally just serve 1, and last for months in any case, so this isn't an issue. If you're just referring to going out to eat, I agree with you. I generally avoid going out as much as possible.

Unfortunately, I don't see myself getting away from the processed stuff anytime soon. 25-30 minutes cooking a meal is about 24-29 minutes longer than I want to spend. Plus, I'd actually have to learn how to prepare the stuff. I could see maybe doing it on a weekend when I have a little bit of free time, but when I come in from work at 8 PM, I want something I can toss in the oven or on the stove and then be done with it.
And therein lies the problem. A lot of folks just don't want to take the time or bother making a decent meal so they eat junk instead and end up with weight problems. I get home at 6 pm and have a good, quality meal on the table by 7 or 7:15 latest. It's all about planning.

I was single and lived alone for years and I would buy in bulk, on sale and spend a couple hours on a weekend preparing meals to make my own TV dinners (you can buy TV dinner trays to make your own TV dinners). On the nights I was tired or too busy to cook, I could whip out my own home-made TV dinner and eat quality food. As my old dad used to say, where there is a will, there is a way. It's all about choices - good and bad.
post #41 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDubbie View Post
Totally agree. HFCS graphed with obesity rates: definitely a correlation.

(I do want to note though: growing corn for this reason was meant to be a safeguard for the US never having a food shortage. It just got out of hand obviously with downsides that most likely werent expected. I also dont now if ppl realize that you can't actually eat the corn grown for corn syrup. It is different coren than what you would normally see in the produce section. That alone gives me the heebiejeebies)

HFCS is even in most bread. I also find hidden sugars by many names, HFCS or other, in almost ever commercial food brands from tuna to peanut butter. I have to spend a lot extra on my food bill to avoid HFCS and hidden sugars (and trans fat - also linked to obesity).
What totally freaks me out about it, other than it is a man made laboratory factory processed fake food syrup hidden in pretty much everything is that it is in in huge quantities in even baby formula. Infants and children are being RAISED on this processed modified stuff.
After a lot of research I am confident that HFHS is not good for anyone in any quantity and the people who make ludicrous amounts of money off it have a commercial stating it is fine in moderation, but to raise whole generations on high fructose corn syrup formula, feeding them modified syrup several times a day for all they eat for months on end, then when they get a little older they eat high fructose corn syrup formula in addition to snacks and meals laced with it as well...I wouldn't say that is setting their body up for success.
post #42 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
I get home at 6 pm and have a good, quality meal on the table by 7 or 7:15 latest. It's all about planning.
I do this too. I literally spend hours in the kitchen, sometimes I feel my days are fix a meal, clean the meal, work, fix lunch, clean lunch, work, fix a meal, clean a meal - try to find time for life
Just kidding of course but I easily spend hours each week cooking, cleaning fruits and veggies, cutting foods, doing dishes (even with a dishwasher), etc. I have help in the kitchen but it is still a HUGE commitment, both financially and mentally/physically and also of course time wise. Planning is essential. But I totally love fixing real fresh food, it is so delicious!

What helps me is coming home from the grocery store and going straight to food preps. We eat a lot of fresh fruits and veggies, and all need to be washed and stored properly to last a proper amount of time. Plus, I home make a good portion of food for my whole family, and that includes pets (the dogs with direction from my vet and reptiles, I haven't attempted cat food).

We are lucky to have a big fridge/freezer and clean storage space for bulk foods free of pests, and dishes to store the food inside and pots and pans/cutting boards and such to cook with and prepare basic meals, along with cleaning supplies, a working oven and stove, etc. We also live in a rural area and have access to fresh foods at good prices locally. Many people also aren't near as lucky and don't have access to as many good foods on a regular basis, and if they do, they don't have much storage, knowledge, or things to cook with and on, or a combo of all of them. And that doesn't include the time and dedication that is required. I remember some years when I livd in a very small apartment and it was much harder.
And yes, of course, it is all about choices, that is what is life is about when it all comes down to it - regardless of what it is for the most part. And some have an easier time with choices than others due to availability, location, and demographics, among many other factors. For many young people a choice is not available, for instance the bad lunches offered in school cafeterias or bad hospital food devoid of real live nutrients and fresh whole foods. Or those children who are raised on corn syrup formulas. Or kids that don't get a recess anymore.

The pace of life in today's society in America leaves little time for family time and meals for most average citizens. And the options aggressively marketed to those people in a time crunch or as a good deal are often very poor in terms of real nutrition. I hope we can all help each other as a society and nation because that is what it is going to take to reverse this health crisis.
post #43 of 50
Not eating a TV dinner, actually cooking from scratch. At least where I live, fresh vegetables and meat are very cheap, especially meat maybe not so much vegetables. I mean certain vegetables are expensive but there are also the very cheap ones, like I love steamed broccolli for example and those are extremely cheap..And on some days obviously home made meals will cost a lot more because there has to be variety but I think the way it adds up: cooking from scratch is much cheaper in the end than eating fast food.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grogs View Post

As far as the personal responsibility for a person's weight, I think the weight needs to be looked at as a symptom, rather than the underlying root cause. Take, for example, two men of the same age, same height and build, who eat similar foods and get about the same amount of exercise. If one weighs 200 while the other weighs 250 then (assuming it's not something like a thyroid) the difference is most likely genetic. The fact that one guy is heavier, and will thus be more likely to have heart disease, is a symptom brought about by the underlying genetic cause. There are people out there who, because of their genes, remain thin on a diet of Twinkies and Big Macs and similarly there are people who eat small, balanced meals, exercise every day, and still aren't thin.
I agree 100%, that's the point I was trying to make too.
post #44 of 50
So, have we reached a consensus that for most people being overweight is their own responsibility for whatever reason?

I have learned from this thread. I didn't know about the Corn Syrup thing.
And I never considered the processed foods deal either.
post #45 of 50
I just wanted to add that the schools and hospitals where we live are very much into ensuring healthy food. When I recently spent 9 days in hospital, the food was healthy and good quality.
post #46 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
the secret is in planning meals.
Yep, but therein lies the rub. I am not anywhere near organized enough to plan meals, and cooking for one person is tricky and annoying (to spend that long for one meal for one person). Sometimes I do make a large meal and freeze portions for later, but not all foods freeze well and I don't have a large freezer anyway. I know I'd lose weight (note: I am not especially overweight, but losing 10-15 pounds wouldn't be bad) if I planned and cooked more, but really it's hard to come home from a day at work and want to make something just for me. Probably if I had kids or a husband it would be more satisfying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDubbie View Post
HFCS is even in most bread. I also find hidden sugars by many names, HFCS or other, in almost ever commercial food brands from tuna to peanut butter. I have to spend a lot extra on my food bill to avoid HFCS and hidden sugars (and trans fat - also linked to obesity).
No kidding! My mom gets sick from HFCS (and I try to avoid it and trans fats anyway), and it's so hard to find anything that doesn't have it in the ingredient list! At least I don't drink soda anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
I think the way it adds up: cooking from scratch is much cheaper in the end than eating fast food.
It might be for large families, but $2.00 for a Whopper Jr and fries at Burger King or for a frozen Banquet TV dinner is way cheaper than most meals I can make for myself. I can make meatless chili for about $1 a serving, but most other foods are more expensive than beans are.

Like I said, I avoid processed foods as much as possible, but I can see why most people eat so many processed foods. I definitely think that there should be cooking classes required for food stamp applicants, and I definitely think that processed foods should not be covered by food stamps. The other day at the grocery store, the lady in front of me bought packaged cookies, chips, Coke, and other junk, and paid for it with her EBT (food stamp) card!
post #47 of 50
^That's so true about the food stamps. I think the lower working class in the US is too tired by life, too exhausted, apathetic or just unaware to care for themselves properly in general..
People living in trailer parks will feed their children with nothing but junk food bought with the food stamps, and then complain their kids have ADD- it's not ADD it's just all that sugar they feed them that makes them so hyper. I've been shocked by cases like this that I've seen from some of the people I've gone to high school with.. Soda pop and ritalin really is the diet for many lower class US kids. It's soo sad...
And it's rarely the educated middle to upper class americans, it's always the poor..
post #48 of 50
Where I live vegetables can be very expensive, same with meat...

Also want to add, just because a person is overweight doesn't mean they are eating large quantities of food or eating only junk food, and just because someone is not overweight doesn't mean they DON'T eat a lot of food or don't eat junk food or fast food.
post #49 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
What if the group were based on skin color instead of an activity (smoking) or weight?
Lots of actions are against the law. I think a smoker's right to smoke ends at the beginning of someone else's nose. Being fat is a whole different thing. If you are fat it doesn't make my clothes smell, it doesn't make me sneeze or make my eyes water, and it doesn't pose a health risk for me. Second hand smoke IS unhealthy. I don't care what OSHA says. I just found out yesterday my friend's cat was having breathing problems, so he was taken to the vet. Guess what he has? Smoker's lungs. Yup, the poor kitty has a serious health condition now because people smoked around him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
No, there aren't laws against being fat, but it is acceptable for businesses to discriminate against smokers and fatties. It's OK for insurance to have much higher rates for smokers,...
It's OK for insurance companies to do a lot of things. Until recently, I had to pay the more expensive premiums because I was of child bearing age. I had a hysterectomy a long time prior. Since the 2004 hurricanes in Florida, property insurance rates have gone through the roof. Many people have paid their premiums for 30 years without ever having a claim, but now their policies are not being renewed. Male driver's under 25 years old have to pay higher auto insurance premiums.

None of these circumstances are fair, but insurance companies gamble on the safer side to avoid claims. Those with the least amount of risk pay the least amount of premiums. It's unfortunate that people who are overweight may be included, but is it really any less fair than any of these other situations?

It stinks for people like you and my husband who have pre-existing conditions and cannot get insurance, unless they are fortunate enough to qualify for a group policy. That's a whole 'nother thread though.
post #50 of 50
Our governor went on food stamps for a week to experience what people who use them go through every week. He was appalled that he could not afford fresh food for every meal. There is no way to eat balanced fresh meals daily if you are poor or struggling.
There are so many reasons why people are overweight. The chemicals, HFCS and preservatives effect our metabolism and hormones. I have good genes by the luck of the draw but did gain gobs of weight when I was on steroids. I lost it but it did teach me that you don't know why someone is overweight most of the time.

It does take a lot of work and a fair amount of money to be healthy, thin and in shape.

I have a friend who is having bypass surgery because she can't lose weight no matter what she does. Her insurance covers it and she is lucky that it does. Not everyone has that option either.
I think premiums should be the same for everyone regardless, because you can't discern who is going to be healthier and cheaper to cover by weight or a smoking habit. There are plenty of thin people who have chronic diseases lurking under their svelte frame.

I have never smoked and can't really stand the smell. I am allergic to the smoke and have an awful reaction to it. I like being able to be in public places and restaurants and not have to smell smoke or inhale it. I don't care if someone chooses to smoke, that is their own business in my opinion. I do care, however, if I am forced to inhale second hand smoke or smell it.
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