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The question that decided Miss USA

post #1 of 134
4/21/09 at 8:10am
Thread Starter 
Miss California was asked a question on same-sex marriage in the interview segment on same-sex marriage, as written by judge (and gossip-site purveyor, and very out gay rights activist) Perez Hilton. (Why he was a judge for Miss USA, I have no clue, but he was.)

This was her answer:

"We live in a land where you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage. And you know what, I think in my country, in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anybody out there, but that’s how I was raised."

It's pretty well accepted that Miss North Carolina won the pageant (Miss California came in 2nd) because of that answer. Perez Hilton has even said as much, and since he was a judge he would know.

The topic I want to ask opinions about isn't your stance on gay marriage. We have enough of those. But rather do you think it was fair to her to be judged on the political content of the question, was it fair for such a question to be asked in a pageant, and what do you think of her response to the question?
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post #2 of 134
4/21/09 at 8:17am
Personally, being that every element of "competitions" like that are so subjective, having that question be the deciding factor is just as legitimate as how she looks in a swimsuit.

In other words, not very legitimate. These things (pageants) are an absurdity that I'm surprised are still recognized as having any measure of substance.
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post #3 of 134
4/21/09 at 8:31am
I think it was a question that really doesn't have a place in a competition that involves judging on appearances. If you want politics, get some real moderators, like Bob Shieffer and lose the fluff judges.

Second if you are going to ask a question like that, have the decency to respect differing opinions. If only one answer is considered acceptable, that points to a form of intolerance which I don't care for. I thought her response was fine, well-worded and a reflection of her opinion, which she is entitled to.

If indeed the reason she lost out to another contestant as a result of that answer it makes the contest a joke.
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post #4 of 134
4/21/09 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keycube View Post
Personally, being that every element of "competitions" like that are so subjective, having that question be the deciding factor is just as legitimate as how she looks in a swimsuit.

In other words, not very legitimate. These things (pageants) are an absurdity that I'm surprised are still recognized as having any measure of substance.

I have to agree. Some of the questions and answers in the pageants make everyone involved look pretty stupid.

As for Perez Hilton being involved, like Paris, all they need is a surname "Hilton" and they can do pretty much anything they want.
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post #5 of 134
4/21/09 at 9:32am
Thread Starter 
She's getting quite the backlash from her "friends" in the California pageant world.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517277,00.html

Sad, IMO, that opinions are not allowed unless they go along with the crowd.
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post #6 of 134
4/21/09 at 10:27am
All of these competitions are ridiculous...By going on a competition like this, I have to say she is subjecting herself to being asked all kinds of questions that the judges consider important..Is it fair ?? HELL NO. Honestly all of their standards are odd to me, not just the fact that they want to know a certain opinion of hers that might be considered political...So nothing new here. The judges, producers, etc are the ones who set the standard and expectations of who they want to become miss america..So they can expect whatever they want.
It sucks but it's how it is. it's why I can't stand pageants in general. Sorry no offense to those who like pagenats or have participated in some.

Anyway I thought her answer was kidn of confusing. First she said it's great that we live in a country where we can choose gay vs. straight-but she believes marriage should be between a man and a woman. So does that mean that she agrees with legislature to allow gay marriage?? It kind of sounds like she does agree with it if she thinks it's great to be able to choose- that's what the whole gay marriage rights is about. And then she goes and contradicts herself.
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post #7 of 134
4/21/09 at 10:36am
I have totally mixed emotions on this situation.

But, ultimately, they asked her the darn question, if she was only allowed one view they should have told her, shouldn't they?

And I don't like Perez Hilton, I heard the nasty name he called her for having an opinion that he didn't like.
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post #8 of 134
4/21/09 at 11:04am
It's not as though it's a trick question, or even one that requires spewing ones political doctrine on the matter. All that needs to be said, is that any actions that don't infringe upon the rights of others, and in fact promote expressions of love and tolerance, are actions that should be encouraged by all, whether gay or straight.

And that should be the end of it.

She boned that question by saying up front that the premise for her argument was that her belief was dictated by "how she was raised". From what I've seen of society thus far, critical analysis needs to extend much further than merely stating, "That's how they did it". History shows that particular philosophy not necessarily serving us well.
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post #9 of 134
4/21/09 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
Sad, IMO, that opinions are not allowed unless they go along with the crowd.
But that's how it is everywhere. Family, friends, work, even here on this forum. If you have unpopular or uncommon opinions you become the outsider for the most part.

They asked her and she answered honestly - unpopular answer with the judges or not, honestly (provided it's not hateful) should be accepted. But then, she's lucky she got 2nd if they were so bothered by her answer.



I was over at DH in-laws when that came on tv. What surprised me the most is aside from a few most of them had so much make-up on they looked like they were 30+ years old!
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post #10 of 134
4/21/09 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
Anyway I thought her answer was kidn of confusing. First she said it's great that we live in a country where we can choose gay vs. straight-but she believes marriage should be between a man and a woman. So does that mean that she agrees with legislature to allow gay marriage?? It kind of sounds like she does agree with it if she thinks it's great to be able to choose- that's what the whole gay marriage rights is about. And then she goes and contradicts herself.
I thought that her answer was awkward, so on that point alone, it could have lessened her score. If she was berated because of her opinion, then that is completely different and completely Wrong
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post #11 of 134
4/21/09 at 1:50pm
Perez Hilton said she lost because of how she answered the question.

Now, the poor girl that won gets no publicity and her runner up is getting all of it. This could be a career maker for Miss California.
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post #12 of 134
4/21/09 at 5:17pm
The trick with answering a question in a pageant is to answer what sounds the best to the public. A pageant is so much about just behaving and answering the way that makes you look best in the judges eyes. I do think because she said both she loved that you could choose but she didnt think it was right was the very wrong thing to say. She should have just stuck with the first part. Wouldnt have offended anyone and the judges would have probably liked the answer.
Now as for Perez Hilton being involved in the pageant, Miss USA INC should be ashamed to have had someone like that as a judge. The pageant is meant to judge these women on the good they do and the talent they have along with how pretty they are.
Although I still have lost respect since they axed the talent competition.

I try to avoid watching the pageants on tv, they make me miss it a lot and I'm already having to make myself not sign up for the next pageant here
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post #13 of 134
4/21/09 at 5:34pm
In my opinion, Hilton used the pagent for his own political agenda. You think it was luck that the question happened to be asked of Miss California? Her answer may have been a bit disjointed, but imagine you are on stage, on national TV and you realize in that moment that you have to either lie or lose. It would be enough to throw anyone.
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post #14 of 134
4/21/09 at 6:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn View Post
In my opinion, Hilton used the pagent for his own political agenda. You think it was luck that the question happened to be asked of Miss California? Her answer may have been a bit disjointed, but imagine you are on stage, on national TV and you realize in that moment that you have to either lie or lose. It would be enough to throw anyone.
Yes, that is why she didn't win. It wasn't about her belief. In the first place she never answered the question, and in the second place she wasn't polished in her answer. Miss USA is an ambassador who must be able to answer tough questions on the fly. She just didn't pass muster on this important quality, IMO.
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post #15 of 134
4/21/09 at 7:17pm
So what does the current Miss USA think about gay marriage? What did the previous one think about abortion? What does Miss America think about the pirate situation?

No, I really don't think they need to be able to answer the tough questions. Because until the other night, no one cared what they thought about politics.

And really, I can't see the promoters of the pagent wanting them to answer those type of questions. They want their Miss What-ever's to be liked by as many people as possible. That isn't going to happen if they start spouting off political views.

I don't think the question was normal. It was like she was expecting the same softball everyone else was thrown and got a curve ball instead.
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post #16 of 134
4/21/09 at 7:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn View Post
So what does the current Miss USA think about gay marriage? What did the previous one think about abortion? What does Miss America think about the pirate situation?

No, I really don't think they need to be able to answer the tough questions. Because until the other night, no one cared what they thought about politics.
I still believe it was about how she answered the question and not her opinion. One of the judges stated that she WAS NOT leading the judging prior to that question. She came in second and third in the swimsuit and evening gown competition.

Again, she never answered the question, and the statement she made about being able to "chose gay marriage or opposite marriage" is not a factual statement at all! Besides, being gay is not about a "choice."

She wasn't destined to win, and her crown wasn't stolen because of a political opinion. She simply wasn't the best contestant, pure and simple.
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post #17 of 134
4/21/09 at 7:28pm
I was adding to my answer right as you were replying, sorry about that.

Hilton himself stated she was ahead. And he says that in his mind "Without a doubt it cost her the crown". Of course he could be making himself and the controversary more important. I just think the question was unfair and it was asked for Hiltons own political reasons.
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post #18 of 134
4/21/09 at 7:35pm
I agree, it was a curve ball, and maybe all the questions should be analyzed by the panel ahead of time to make sure they are all non controversial. I think Perez was patting himself on the back a bit much, but I really did hear another judge say that she was judged second & third in the other two categories prior to the question.

I am not a Perez Hilton fan at all. I'm not even a gay marrage fan. I do believe that gays should have all the same rights as straights, but I'm not crazy about the idea of calling their union a "marriage." But I still think she lost because she wasn't the best contestant, and not because of political reasons.
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post #19 of 134
4/21/09 at 7:54pm
So, Heidi, three questions, then, right? Paraphrasing...
Q. Was it an appropriate question for the situation?
A. Maybe, given that the surprise served a useful purpose (see below).
Q. Given that it was asked, should the political content of the question determine an acceptable answer?
A. No.
Q. Was her answer acceptable?
A. In terms of content, yes. It was her opinion and she's entitled to it, regardless whether anyone agrees with her or not. In terms of expression, no. Contestants in these things are supposedly being judged on their poise, presentation, and other social skills, among other things. Her answer was comprehensible, but awkward. That the question probably came out of left field was a good test of her ability to respond to unexpected situations graciously, even if there might have been more appropriate surprise questions to use.
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post #20 of 134
4/21/09 at 8:06pm
rapunzel I mostly agree with you. However she was asked if the other states should follow in Vermont's path and legalize gay marriage, why? or why not? She offered her opinion that marriage should be between a man and a woman, but she never answered the question directly! Her use of the word "choice" was totally wrong and inappropriate. Contrary to her answer, the majority of people in this country cannot choose a "same sex marriage or an opposite one."
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post #21 of 134
4/21/09 at 8:25pm
Well, she's still entitled to her opinion, but she expressed it awkwardly and, as you observe, not even completely -- just more reason to fault her composure.
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post #22 of 134
4/22/09 at 7:08am
Uh, anyone else just wondering why the heck Perez Hilton even qualified as a judge? He's a gossip-hound who really is not at all impressive, nor known for anything significant aside from running his mouth/demanding all the attention he can get.
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post #23 of 134
4/22/09 at 7:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by plainjane View Post
Uh, anyone else just wondering why the heck Perez Hilton even qualified as a judge? He's a gossip-hound who really is not at all impressive, nor known for anything significant aside from running his mouth/demanding all the attention he can get.
Which then begs the question of why any of the judges for these inane competitions are qualified.
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post #24 of 134
4/22/09 at 10:46am
I don't believe in the contests in the first place and think it was wrong and stupid to base the winner on a question that you find you don't agree with.

IMO she had every right to say what she did if that is the way she felt. I'm glad she did take the stand and not say "politically correct" answer. If more people would stand up for what they believed in their hearts, we would not have to be so afraid of stepping on toes.

Also it was obvious she DID answer the question - not with just a yes or no. If she believes in no gay marriage then the answer is NO to the question in other states following what Vermont did. Was it necessary to say yes or no first?
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post #25 of 134
4/22/09 at 10:52am
While her honesty is admirable, you must agree that it doesn't mean her logic is sound. All she essentially said was that she didn't believe in equality, because history dictated to her that it need not be present for society to function in some capacity. Is that really all that impressive?

It would be great if child molestors all voluntarily outed themselves as well, but I'm not going to give them kudos for being one, you know what I mean?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I don't believe in the contests in the first place and think it was wrong and stupid to base the winner on a question that you find you don't agree with.

IMO she had every right to say what she did if that is the way she felt. I'm glad she did take the stand and not say "politically correct" answer. If more people would stand up for what they believed in their hearts, we would not have to be so afraid of stepping on toes.
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post #26 of 134
4/22/09 at 1:38pm
I'm wondering why it all matters.
Surely this competition, for all people like to say its about talent, or conversational skills, is about finding someone who looks really good in a swimsuit.
Why does it matter what her opinion is on gay marriage? TBH Does it actually matter if she can talk?
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post #27 of 134
4/22/09 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cata_mint View Post
I'm wondering why it all matters.
Surely this competition, for all people like to say its about talent, or conversational skills, is about finding someone who looks really good in a swimsuit.
Why does it matter what her opinion is on gay marriage? TBH Does it actually matter if she can talk?
I think honestly if it was all about looking good in a swimsuit there would no way to boil it down to just one girl. They all look good in swimsuits..That's why I wonder what's a pageant for anyway?
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post #28 of 134
4/22/09 at 4:18pm
Thread Starter 
Let me reiterate that I really didn't want a debate on whether she is right or wrong, logically flawed or a saint for her answer.

I also realized after posting this that one of the other judges was Holly Madison. While she does have more qualifications to judge whether they looked good in a bikini, having lived at the Playboy Mansion for years and all, that's all the qualification she has to be a judge, IMO. Perez Hilton has even less.

I haven't watched a beauty pageant in many, many years, and usually that was just to see the pretty dresses. But the questions I remember were things like "As Miss USA, what cause would you promote to help make the world a little better?" or "What do you think of the state of education in America?" Basically...total softballs that anyone could answer without offending anyone and making themselves look good at the same time. She was likely expecting the same type of question, which would explain the stammering and unorganized answer she did give. It wasn't polished, but she did come across with an honest final answer. It sounded like she started out with the "pc" answer and then decided to give an honest answer instead of a canned response.

Even if they had upped the ante and given ALL of the finalists more thought provoking, politically charged questions, it would only have been fair if they were judged on the manner in which they answered, not which side of the fence they chose to sit on. IMO, especially considering that the judging was available to the public and there were only 39 points separating those two going into the final "interview" round, I have very little to no doubt that her position on the question weighed as heavily, if not moreso, as the lack of polish in the composition of the answer.
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post #29 of 134
4/24/09 at 4:30am
Perez Hilton, like several other well known names on Television and radio, has spent a great deal of time turning his name into a Brand. Brand recognition is his game. IMO, everything he says and does, and I mean everything, is to serve a single purpose. To get people talking about Perez Hilton.

I don't know however, if he intended to "bushwack" the young lady, or if he simply wanted his name attached to the "hot button" question. But, I also think he didn't care if it hurt her or not, as long as people talk about "Rez".
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post #30 of 134
4/24/09 at 9:26am
Oh pish tush it's not even his real name! He stole it and his real name is Mario Armando Lavandeira. He got to where he is by posting celebtrity trash on a blog. IMO the pageant would do well to lose him.
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