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post #31 of 50
What an interesting paper http://www.news-medical.net/?id=12896
It's not terribly difficult to find this information if anyone wants other sources that say the exact same thing. I wonder if this theory will prove correct?
post #32 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
What an interesting paper http://www.news-medical.net/?id=12896
It's not terribly difficult to find this information if anyone wants other sources that say the exact same thing. I wonder if this theory will prove correct?
I think I'd prefer Chicken Pox.
post #33 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
I think I'd prefer Chicken Pox.
Well, what it's saying is that as we vaccinate against this more and more those of us who did get it naturally won't encounter our natural booster as nature intended - thus shingles are more likely to happen.

Obviously this will eventually pass as no one catches the wild virus anymore and those who have had it eventually age and die. The other solution is more boosters for us via vaccinations in the mean time.
post #34 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
Why on earth would you want to put your child through the horrid discomfort of Chickenpox!? It's painful! It's itchy! And there are risks that come with it too.

While Chickenpox is typically a benign, self-limited disease, serious complications can happen. About 14,000 people are hospitalized because of chicken pox and approximately 100 people die of chickenpox every year. The risk of complications is highest in people with compromised immune systems, newborns, and adults.

By preventing your child from being protected against Chickenpox, you are taking the risk of him/her being one of those 100 people who die! Why not take the small risk the other way? I'll tell you why! Fear mongering! And people buy into!

Here is a site that explains the complications very well. One of which is Shingles that occurs later in life, but you only get it if you have had Chickenpox.

http://dermatology.about.com/cs/chic...hickencomp.htm

I've had Shingles! I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy! It's horridly painful. And while I was lucky and caught it early enough and went on antiviral medications, many aren't. And those that aren't are subjected to horrid nerve pain to the area for the rest of their lives! And I mean seriously painful nerve pain.

Let me ask you something.

Cancer is a growing concern. Even people who do not have family histories of certain types of cancer or who have never smoked are getting cancer.

If there were a vaccine available that would prevent you from ever getting cancer, but that vaccine had to be administered before a certain age, and let's say that age was under 18 where a parent's permission was required, would you have your child vaccinated? Now remember, it would allow them to live the rest of their lives without the risk of ever getting any type of cancer. What about a vaccine for HIV/AIDS? Hep C? Or any number of other fatal incurable diseases?

Would you prefer to let your child go through their life with the chance of getting any one of those incurable diseases than to allow them one small second to get a vaccine that would protect them the rest of their lives?

Sure there are occasional complications from vaccines. But people fail to remember that those complications are few and far between and that the number of people who are vaccinated and do not experience any complications far out number the few that do.

I'm sorry, but I can't buy into the archaic thinking that it is better to allow a child to become sick than to protect them with through advances in modern science.
I agree with Linda on this one. I had a horrid case of the chicken pox when I was little (I believe I was in kindergarden at the time, I cought it from a classmate). I was covered head to toe and vividly remember how aweful I felt. Now that there is a vaccine that can help prevent another child from getting it, I would definitely vaccinate if I had a child. (and yes nothing's fool proof, but it's better than nothing). I wish my mom would have had me vaccinated and saved me the discomfort and pain of the chicken pox. (I don't think she even knew it was an option when I was little though, she had me vaccinated for everything else though MMR,etc.)

I do understand that parents have different opinions on vaccinating and I respect that. I think that yes, as with anything, when you vaccinate you take a small risk- but not vaccinating comes with larger risks IMO depending on the vaccine/disease. I'd rather not gamble with a life or putting someone through terrible discomfort/pain. I think the key here is for each person to do their own research, have an open dialogue with their doctors, and make the choice that their most comfortable with. For me- I'd rather vaccinate.
post #35 of 50
Seems people are starting to have H1N1 parties in the hopes that their kids get infected!

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre...-49837517.html

I still have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that there are some parents that will knowingly expose their kids to potentially deadly diseases!
post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
Seems people are starting to have H1N1 parties in the hopes that their kids get infected!

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre...-49837517.html

I still have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that there are some parents that will knowingly expose their kids to potentially deadly diseases!
Deadly?????? Most reported cases, in Ontario at any rate, have been termed to be mild. Add to that the fact that apparently if we are older our chances of getting it are less than the younger people because we have immunities.

I really think people get too panicky over this stuff. Good common sense can be a wonderful thing, unfortunately it is in short supply.
post #37 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
Deadly?????? Most reported cases, in Ontario at any rate, have been termed to be mild.
I said "potentially". Yes, most are mild, but there are deaths from both Chickepox and H1N1.
post #38 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
I said "potentially". Yes, most are mild, but there are deaths from both Chickepox and H1N1.
There are deaths from all sorts of minor ailments but mostly due to the person's poor immune system or weakness. Healthy people (including children) shouldn't fear catching the flu.

There is way too much fear-mongering IMO. Our US head office sent us an edict that we had to go out and purchase hand sanitizing solution, thermometers, masks, et al, after the news of the H1N1 broke. The hand sanitizers had to be at every desk and in the kitchen. We were told it might get to a point where we would have to do a temp check on couriers entering our suite. That's just plain crazy!
post #39 of 50
The parents are having these H1N1 parties in case the flu mutates into a more deadly form, so their kids can get it while its still mild.

"Their apparent reason is a belief that it's better to get the virus now while it causes mostly mild illness than in the fall when a possibly mutated and more deadly version could appear, says the British Medical Association, warning against such disease-swapping socials."

But, if the virus has mutated into a more deadly form, isn't there a chance that the virus will have changed sufficiently that kids who catch the milder version aren't protected against the more deadly form? And aren't they just helping to spread the epidemic? I'm not sure I follow their logic.
post #40 of 50
We've had deaths in Manitoba from H1N1 where the person has had no underlying medical conditions that would have contributed to that death.

So IMHO it's irresponsible to purposefully expose your children to a disease just so they get it and become immune.

How would you feel if you exposed your kid to chickenpox or H1N1 or any other "mild" disease just so they got it and became immune, and they turned out to be the small percentage that got really sick and died? Pretty terrible I would imagine.

Playing crap shoot with your kids' health is irresponsible.

EDIT: The term "your" is used in it's broad sense and not directed to any one person in particular.
post #41 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
We've had deaths in Manitoba from H1N1 where the person has had no underlying medical conditions that would have contributed to that death.

So IMHO it's irresponsible to purposefully expose your children to a disease just so they get it and become immune.

How would you feel if you exposed your kid to chickenpox or H1N1 or any other "mild" disease just so they got it and became immune, and they turned out to be the small percentage that got really sick and died? Pretty terrible I would imagine.

Playing crap shoot with your kids' health is irresponsible.

EDIT: The term "your" is used in it's broad sense and not directed to any one person in particular.

I will concede one point - kids today do not have the strong immune system that we did as children, generally because they have been over-protected and not exposed to enough germs and bacteria, so on that point you are probably right that these children would be very much at risk.
post #42 of 50
I don't have kids yet. I did get CP when I was 4 yrs old
i believe, I honestly don't remember anything at all from my case of Chicken pox. i personally think we are way over vaccinated and extremely, ridiculously over medicated. So i doubt I'll be getting my kids the vaccine. If they are not well children, than yes. But if they are healthy children I'd rather them build up their immune systems. I personally hardly ever take antibiotics, the majority of infections I get i take care of with herbal and natural antibiotics. If I have a stubborn infection I'll go to the dr and get an antibiotic, but IMO physicians give us way to many antibiotics, and our immune systems are greatly compromised because of it. IMO, a chicken pox vaccine isn't necessary unless the child is not a well child. Otherwise, let nature take it's course and let that child build up it's immune system. Now I'm not against all vaccinations, just what I deem as unnecessary. It really is scary to think of how overmedicated and vaccinated America is. Extremely scary to me.
post #43 of 50
I don't really understand what people have against vaccinations. The vast majority of people who have all their vaccinations go on to live long and healthy lives. A very very small proportion of people who have vaccinations have a bad reaction to them (including a friend of mine, and my cat).
The western world has never been so healthy.

People who do not get their children vaccinated out of choice, not forgetfulness, tend to be educated and fairly well off, who make other good lifestyle choices. This means that they would probably have healthy children anyway, especially with herd immunity to protect them.

Rates of measles, mumps and rubella in western countries have been rising in the past few years, as have the number of fatalities cause by them. A baby girl in Australia died of whooping cough because herd immunity in her area was so low.
http://danamccaffery.com/

Vaccination programs can do so much good.
http://www.polioeradication.org/

Sure, at current herd immunity levels, most unvaccinated children will be fine. And even the small but growing number of children who do get measles etc will probably suffer no complications. But I just can't understand why you wouldn't want to do everything you could to prevent your child getting sick. Why you wouldn't want to spare them that little bit of unhappiness.

I remember having chicken pox when I was about 6. Yeah, I'm fine now, but when I had it I was hot, itchy and miserable for 2 weeks. I still have the scars, which I would rather live without. Maybe I'm being pathetic for complaining, maybe illness is just a fact of life that we should just toughen up and accept.

Claims that the ingredients in vaccines cause health problems vary from country to country, even though the same ingredients are used worldwide.
Fairly recently, Britain had a huge MMR causes Autism controversy (which was entirely untrue).
Throughout the 1990s France was in the grip of a scare that the Hep B vaccine caused multiple sclerosis, which was also never shown.
Thiomersal was also linked to autism in the US, and while it is also used in Britain, we haven't had that concern (it has never been used in the MMR vaccine).
MMR coverage in a science blog

http://www.badscience.net/
I love this blog. Ben Goldacre is a medical doctor, and he writes clearly and intelligently about (mostly) health related science.

I suspect I'm rambling and making no sense so I'll stop.
In essence, I agree with Natalie_ca
post #44 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
I think science advances are great, but I will tell you I will NEVER get a flu shot again. I got one once, and got the worst case of the flu I ever had not even 2 weeks later. Maybe it was just a coincidence, but I haven't gotten the flu shot since, and haven't had the flu since.

But 100 deaths a year? More kids die from concussions a year I'm sure than from chicken pox. So, does that mean we don't let kids play in a play ground anymore because they may fall?
You got the flu because you had already "caught it" prior to the vaccine--bad timing or it was an entirely different strain than you were being protected against (RN x25 yrs)

As far as I know there is no vaccine for a concussion!!! Ridiculous point. 100 deaths/yr isn't too bad??? Yeah, unless it it your child!
post #45 of 50
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't most public schools in the US require vaccination records to be able to enroll?
My granddaughter has to have all her vax UTD including the newer ones for CP and something else I cannot remember right off the top of my head. She starts preschool next month.
post #46 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
I think science advances are great, but I will tell you I will NEVER get a flu shot again. I got one once, and got the worst case of the flu I ever had not even 2 weeks later. Maybe it was just a coincidence, but I haven't gotten the flu shot since, and haven't had the flu since.

And of all the kids I grew up with, I've never known one person that has died from chicken pox. Yes, I know it can happen. But 100 deaths a year? More kids die from concussions a year I'm sure than from chicken pox. So, does that mean we don't let kids play in a play ground anymore because they may fall?
You are not the only person that I've heard say that. The thing about flu shots is that the folks that prepare them are "guessing which one" will hit in any different year. They don't really know for sure so they concoct a vaccine that they are guessing will smite the bug that hits.

As for playgrounds - I got a chuckle out of this because that actually happened here in Toronto. The school board got some idiot that thought the pressure treated wood used in playground construction would damage the children so they tore them all down. Unfortunately they didn't get around to building new ones for a couple years.

As I said - too much fear-mongering IMO. I personally think the best thing you can do for kids is to send them to a farm for the summer to let them build up some immunities from digging in the dirt and manure and being around various animals.
post #47 of 50
[quote=Yosemite;2671575]You are not the only person that I've heard say that. The thing about flu shots is that the folks that prepare them are "guessing which one" will hit in any different year. They don't really know for sure so they concoct a vaccine that they are guessing will smite the bug that hits.

In this day in age still...

You can not get the flu FROM the flu shot, it is a DEAD vaccine. Did you get polio from your DEAD polio vaccine?? How about tetanus, pertussis, measles, etc.? Use some sense you either carried a flu with you at the time of the vaccine or it was another strain. There are a lot of strains out there--it can't cover them all so it is a very educated guess when they design the vaccine. Mama mia!
post #48 of 50
[quote=Mom of Franz;2671620]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
You are not the only person that I've heard say that. The thing about flu shots is that the folks that prepare them are "guessing which one" will hit in any different year. They don't really know for sure so they concoct a vaccine that they are guessing will smite the bug that hits.

In this day in age still...

You can not get the flu FROM the flu shot, it is a DEAD vaccine. Did you get polio from your DEAD polio vaccine?? How about tetanus, pertussis, measles, etc.? Use some sense you either carried a flu with you at the time of the vaccine or it was another strain. There are a lot of strains out there--it can't cover them all so it is a very educated guess when they design the vaccine. Mama mia!
I didn't say anything about anyone getting the flu from a flu shot - I said that she wasn't the only one that I've heard say that. Big difference. As for having sense - I actually do possess some rather good sense so please do not assume I am senseless and even if I were it is rather impolite and disrespectful of you to say so on a public forum.

As I also said, when the vaccine is concocted they are hazarding a guess (I suppose I could have said "an educated guess", as to which strain will strike in any given year - that is true is it not? If so, then I fail to understand the point you are trying to contest in my post?

Mama Mia for sure!
post #49 of 50
I had chicken pox as a kid and it was horrible.. seriously horrible. The fever, the itching, the scaring. It even ended up in my genital area. I can't imagine purposely exposing your child to this. That just makes no sense to me. I would never attempt to force a disease on someone because of some misguided, illogical desire to expose them early. I suppose if you could guarantee it would be mild and that your child would not be covered in hundreds of itchy, oozing sores I could understand it.
post #50 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by esrgirl View Post
I had chicken pox as a kid and it was horrible.. seriously horrible. The fever, the itching, the scaring. It even ended up in my genital area. I can't imagine purposely exposing your child to this. That just makes no sense to me. I would never attempt to force a disease on someone because of some misguided, illogical desire to expose them early. I suppose if you could guarantee it would be mild and that your child would not be covered in hundreds of itchy, oozing sores I could understand it.
Wow! You did have a bad case. None of our family nor our friends had anything like what you describe. We had some spots and mild discomfort but certainly no oozing sores nor genital area issues. I can certainly understand why you would want to vaccinate a child, especially if they had the chance to inherit your genes. I would vaccinate in a nanosecond if I had had your experience.

ETA: This probably confirms my own convictions that when we were kids we had much better immune systems than your and future generations. Our cases of measles, mumps and childhood diseases were mild, certainly very mild compared to what you seem to have experienced.
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