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United to charge double for heavy people - Page 3

post #61 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake_Lady View Post
So should someone in a wheelchair have to pay for a ramp or a larger space to accomodate their chair?

For the record, cars can and have been manufactured to accomodate disabilities
I was thinking about this also. My 80 year old grandmother gets a wheelchair and escort for free provided by the airlines every time she travels, she isn't disabled to the point where she absolutely cannot walk she just requests it and they provide it to her without asking for proof of disability or anything. So they can spend money to hire extra workers to provide this service to people who are having difficulty walking but they are making bigger people pay for an extra, seat. People seem to forget that obesity, no matter what caused it is in itself a medical condition.
post #62 of 75
Before we get too far off the beaten path, let's consider an extreme extrapolation of the situation described.

Let's assume that, against all odds, a group of 800 pound people are boarding an airplane. Let's assume they actually take up 3 seats each.

Amazingly, to everyone's surprise, every passenger ends up weighing 800 pounds, and taking up 3 seats each.

Astoundingly, this happens gazillions of times, over a series of months. To every aircraft from a single airline.

The airline in question does NOT charge extra for needing to accomodate extra space.

Guess what airline would soon be out of business?

Though the above example is absurd, the question of accountability is very much legitimate. No one is trying to disparage overweight people in situations like this, it's a matter of economics. Air travel is a luxury, and I think this is key; if we're talking about an "Excess Tax" placed on overweight people because of oxygen consumption above and beyond the norm, things would get pretty hairy, and rightfully so. But we're not talking about an inherent "right" that's being stripped or made more difficult to obtain. It's an airline ticket. And air travel, like any service, his its own inherent running and maintenance costs. It's just business.

That's not to say that businesses aren't exploitive; they are. But I don't see that happening in this case, where two of a unit product is required, then twice the cost is required to obtain the product.
post #63 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keycube View Post
Before we get too far off the beaten path, let's consider an extreme extrapolation of the situation described.

Let's assume that, against all odds, a group of 800 pound people are boarding an airplane. Let's assume they actually take up 3 seats each.

Amazingly, to everyone's surprise, every passenger ends up weighing 800 pounds, and taking up 3 seats each.

Astoundingly, this happens gazillions of times, over a series of months. To every aircraft from a single airline.

The airline in question does NOT charge extra for needing to accomodate extra space.

Guess what airline would soon be out of business?

Though the above example is absurd, the question of accountability is very much legitimate. No one is trying to disparage overweight people in situations like this, it's a matter of economics. Air travel is a luxury, and I think this is key; if we're talking about an "Excess Tax" placed on overweight people because of oxygen consumption above and beyond the norm, things would get pretty hairy, and rightfully so. But we're not talking about an inherent "right" that's being stripped or made more difficult to obtain. It's an airline ticket. And air travel, like any service, his its own inherent running and maintenance costs. It's just business.

That's not to say that businesses aren't exploitive; they are. But I don't see that happening in this case, where two of a unit product is required, then twice the cost is required to obtain the product.
I see your point. I do see the problem. But I don't think their approach to solving the problem is correct. Bigger people don't need only horizontal space, they need more space in front of them too not just around them, three seats isn't going to make them comfortable anyway so they wouldn't be getting what they pay for. Anyway, if they do this right and make bigger seats available then i am sure that a bigger seat is in no way going to cost twice the amount of a regular seat. It may be 1/3 more or so but it's never going to be double because rarely do bigger people actually need twice the space, they usually just need a small amount extra. So it will be a much better solution IMO. And they will not even need to confront anyone, when buying a ticket it can just ask for people to state their weight and then give them the correct assignment and price.
post #64 of 75
A friend of mine could not buy the same model car I have because he was too tall for it. He had to pay more for a larger model. If an obese person cannot fit into one seat without disturbing another person, they should purchase 2 seats or a larger seat. This is not a judgement about their size. Some larger clothes cost more. I've seen signs such as $2.00 extra for plus sizes. Isn't that the same thing?

As far as the airlines adding larger seats to accomodate plus size passengers, aren't the business class seats already larger? In today's economy, I think it might be difficult for airlines to make these renovations.

Don't get me wrong. I do sympathize with people who are severely overweight. I have a hard time with my 15 extra pounds. I just think we whould pay for the size we need, whether it's a shirt, a car, or a seat.
post #65 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymotus View Post
I think it's fair enough if they don't fit into one seat. If two seats are required, they should pay for the two.
I agree with you

Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
Yes, well somebody's gotta pay for the comfort of treating people as equal human beings. I think as a society we should pay this price because we dont' want to offend people. Like I said i'm talking about borderline people not the extremely obese with a four digit weight.
I don't think it is fair to me to pay more, just because someone else can not fit in their seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Utopia, a fact of life is, you will be offended.

We can't dictate how wide the seats are in airplanes so people won't be offended, life just doesn't work that way.
That is true

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
We aren't talking about the handicapped here, we are talking about overweight people.

I am wondering how much extra you, personally, would be willing to pay for wider seats.
I wouldn't want to pay more


Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Nova View Post
How is being overweight synonymous with being disabled? If I pay for a seat on an airplane, I want that seat to myself.
Me too

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
So, should the people that have paid for an airline seat not be entitled to their seat or just be entitled to half the seat? Don't they deserve the seat they paid for?

No one is discriminating against overweight people. I don't consider this discrimination.

Yes, in a perfect world the airline seats would be wider, but that is not my decision how wide they make the seats. But I have to say I would not share my seat with anyone.
I have flown before with two heavy people beside me, one of them could barely fit, and the other one kept her leg up against mine the whole flight. They also used the arm rests, I sat in the middle seat with my arms folded against my chest the whole time. And one of them just kept looking at me the whole flight that it was my fault that I was so uncomfortable. So it was not very fun for me either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
Discrimination works 2 ways. If I pay for a full seat but only get half because I'm smaller than the fellow/lady next to me and they need to use half my seat, then I am being discriminated against for being smaller.

I'd wager that there is not one of you that has responded to this thread who would not expect to get what they pay for and if you paid for a whole seat on a flight and only got half then you didn't get what you paid for. I work hard for my money so when I spend it on something, I want exactly what I paid for and not 1/2 of what I paid for because someone else took the other half.
Right, then smaller people could pay less cause we were not using our whole seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
I may not be popular, but I think that if someone is obese they need to pay for 2 seats period. If I pay for a full seat I want that full seat and a seat is for sitting in not standing for the whole flight.

Some weight issues are indeed due to medical conditions, but just as someone in a wheelchair needs access ramps, obese people need two seats. If you need 2 seats, pay for them. I have a SIL who is obese, she doesn't even fit in a wide lawn chair and she jokes that those chairs weren't made for people with hips. Her problem is overeating and I just don't have a lot of sympathy for that. I smoked most of my life and did damage to my lungs. When I realized the extent of damage I had done, I quit smoking, period.

Being grossly overweight is no excuse for taking most of the seat I paid for on a flight. If the shoe was on the other foot and I took over half of the seat someone else paid for they would not be happy campers regardless of how politically correct or incorrect it may be.
I pesonally don't think that it matters if you are heavy because you like to eat or if you have a medical conditon, if you need two seats then you should have to buy two seats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt_jordi View Post
Like others I can see both sides of this but I agree if you cannot lower your armrest for safety reason than you should have to buy another seat so that you can safely fly. Just like you cannot get on a rollercoaster if you cannot lock your seat into place.

I also do not think they could determine the limit by weight. 2 people may weigh the same in pounds but be completely different body shape. I think it should be based strictly on the safety rules set forth by the companies.

But they should offer a certain amount of wider seats maybe for an extra cost for those that cannot and know they cannot fit into a standard seat. And if they chose a standard seat then the flight attendant should very quietly explain what the problem is and try to fix it with little if no attention drawn to the person.
I think so too

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
This is easy, folks. The rule is if you take up two seats and the plane is full, you pay for two seats. That's true if you have an infant, too. If you hold it on your lap, no extra charge. If it needs a seat, you pay for 2 seats.

No one makes anyone fly. Save the cost of a few first class (or double coach) seats and buy a Cadillac.
Me and my daughter are flying to Texas later this summer, we will be taking the grandbaby with us, and he will have to seat on our laps. However if we go next year, we will have to purchase a full price ticket for him because he will be two. So that is what we will do. We can't just say that we don't want to buy a full price ticket just because he is little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
Wow. All I have to say is, I'm sad people think this way...I feel as though people just aren't all that kind to one another. I guess that's another fact of life that I've been unwilling to accept. I guess it's just too much to ask to accomodate bigger people without offending them and further contributing to their emotional issues, when it interferes with someone else's money and self interest.
I just don't think it is fair to others to have to pay more money just because someone who is heavy might get their feelings hurt.
post #66 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
The car industry is irrelevant because people can buy big or small cars, based on their needs. There are also cars made for handicapped people, so that is a baseless argument.

My question is....should someone with a medical condition (the 1 out of 10 that you proposed) be subjected to paying double, or could the airlines equip themselves to accomodate these people? Or should we just stick with the status quo? What would you do Cindy?
The airlines would soon go out of business and nobody would be flying or could afford to fly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake_Lady View Post
So should someone in a wheelchair have to pay for a ramp or a larger space to accomodate their chair?

For the record, cars can and have been manufactured to accomodate disabilities
And those with special needs can obtain these products for a greater price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
I was thinking about this also. My 80 year old grandmother gets a wheelchair and escort for free provided by the airlines every time she travels, she isn't disabled to the point where she absolutely cannot walk she just requests it and they provide it to her without asking for proof of disability or anything. So they can spend money to hire extra workers to provide this service to people who are having difficulty walking but they are making bigger people pay for an extra, seat. People seem to forget that obesity, no matter what caused it is in itself a medical condition.
My brother who is on oxygen 24/7 is considered handicapped and gets special treatment when boarding. That doesn't affect the person sitting next to him on the flight so has no bearing on seat size. When booking a flight he tells them he has this problem. When obese people book a flight they need to be honest and do the same. I'm not talking overweight, I'm talking obese. I don't care if it is a medical condition or not, if they want to bring their doctor's certificate for the airlines, fine, but they still need 2 seats for the safety and comfort of themselves and the other passengers, period.
post #67 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post

My brother who is on oxygen 24/7 is considered handicapped and gets special treatment when boarding. That doesn't affect the person sitting next to him on the flight so has no bearing on seat size. When booking a flight he tells them he has this problem. When obese people book a flight they need to be honest and do the same. I'm not talking overweight, I'm talking obese. I don't care if it is a medical condition or not, if they want to bring their doctor's certificate for the airlines, fine, but they still need 2 seats for the safety and comfort of themselves and the other passengers, period.
Yea, I don't think it's wrong for the airline to ask how much passengers weigh, as long as they do it to everyone. Many things require for people to put down their weight, getting a driver's license, going skiing, just all kinds of places. But, it's a question asked to everyone not just specific people so that makes it okay because it's equal. I think it's definitely possible to determine whether someone can fit in the seat based on weight...
But my question is, all those people who say they don't want to pay for larger people's larger seats- are you all aware that the airlines are spending money on wheelchairs and employees to escort those who need a wheel chair, so in a sense the airlines raise their prices to accomodate for that and you are paying for that as well. People are probably mad about that too...
post #68 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
The airlines would soon go out of business and nobody would be flying or could afford to fly.
I highly doubt that putting in a few larger seats would make any airline go out of business, or drive the price up so high that no one could afford to fly. But, since you brought up price....so you think it's fair that someone that has a medical issue has to pay double? Rather than just renovating the cabins to accomodate those people? What if your brother had to pay for an extra seat for his oxygen tank? How do you know he isn't bothering other people? I'm not saying anything against your brother, and I hope he's doing well....but you seem to have no sympathy for other people so I'll be the same way.

So, maybe we should put all the "talkative" people in one section of the plane and all the "leave me alone" people in another section. I find talkative people MUCH more annoying than overweight people! There we go, we got our questionaire..."Name, address, DOB, weight, height, do you like to talk.....".
post #69 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
I highly doubt that putting in a few larger seats would make any airline go out of business, or drive the price up so high that no one could afford to fly. But, since you brought up price....so you think it's fair that someone that has a medical issue has to pay double? Rather than just renovating the cabins to accomodate those people? What if your brother had to pay for an extra seat for his oxygen tank? How do you know he isn't bothering other people? I'm not saying anything against your brother, and I hope he's doing well....but you seem to have no sympathy for other people so I'll be the same way.

So, maybe we should put all the "talkative" people in one section of the plane and all the "leave me alone" people in another section. I find talkative people MUCH more annoying than overweight people! There we go, we got our questionaire..."Name, address, DOB, weight, height, do you like to talk.....".
I am not annoyed by overweight people, I just want to be the only one in the seat that I have paid for. I feel the same way about anywheres I go and have to pay for a seat.

I have been to Nascar races and football games where it is the same thing when they don't have the chair seats. Over weight people are always in my space, and I have a little space. They use their number and part of mine.

But I would for sure be seated in the talkative section, no doubt about it.
post #70 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
I highly doubt that putting in a few larger seats would make any airline go out of business, or drive the price up so high that no one could afford to fly. But, since you brought up price....so you think it's fair that someone that has a medical issue has to pay double? Rather than just renovating the cabins to accomodate those people? What if your brother had to pay for an extra seat for his oxygen tank? How do you know he isn't bothering other people? I'm not saying anything against your brother, and I hope he's doing well....but you seem to have no sympathy for other people so I'll be the same way.

So, maybe we should put all the "talkative" people in one section of the plane and all the "leave me alone" people in another section. I find talkative people MUCH more annoying than overweight people! There we go, we got our questionaire..."Name, address, DOB, weight, height, do you like to talk.....".

I pay for my seat and it is mine and I am the only person that is going to be in it, it is as simple as that. There is no way I would spend my entire flight like Tricia did sitting in half a seat. No way. That isn't fair to ME.
post #71 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
I highly doubt that putting in a few larger seats would make any airline go out of business, or drive the price up so high that no one could afford to fly. But, since you brought up price....so you think it's fair that someone that has a medical issue has to pay double? Rather than just renovating the cabins to accomodate those people? What if your brother had to pay for an extra seat for his oxygen tank? How do you know he isn't bothering other people? I'm not saying anything against your brother, and I hope he's doing well....but you seem to have no sympathy for other people so I'll be the same way.

So, maybe we should put all the "talkative" people in one section of the plane and all the "leave me alone" people in another section. I find talkative people MUCH more annoying than overweight people! There we go, we got our questionaire..."Name, address, DOB, weight, height, do you like to talk.....".
Hey if it works why not? While you are at it, could you do something about other people's kids that keep kicking the back of the seat I paid for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LSULOVER View Post
I am not annoyed by overweight people, I just want to be the only one in the seat that I have paid for. I feel the same way about anywheres I go and have to pay for a seat.

I have been to Nascar races and football games where it is the same thing when they don't have the chair seats. Over weight people are always in my space, and I have a little space. They use their number and part of mine.

But I would for sure be seated in the talkative section, no doubt about it.
I agree completely. I have no issue with overweight people at all - there are plenty of them in my life. I just think if they are so overweight that they take up their seat plus half another, then they definitely need to pay a premium just as they would have to pay a premium for a larger car, larger clothing, etc. I'm quite sure they would be more comfortable as well in two seats versus one and therefore everyone would be more comfortable.

As for weighing people at the airport, puleeeese, when someone knows they have a weight issue and do not fit into a regular seat, this should be mentioned at the time of reserving a ticket so that can be flagged. When they check in the "flag" will show up and dealt with discreetly.
post #72 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post

My brother who is on oxygen 24/7 is considered handicapped and gets special treatment when boarding. That doesn't affect the person sitting next to him on the flight so has no bearing on seat size. When booking a flight he tells them he has this problem. When obese people book a flight they need to be honest and do the same. I'm not talking overweight, I'm talking obese. I don't care if it is a medical condition or not, if they want to bring their doctor's certificate for the airlines, fine, but they still need 2 seats for the safety and comfort of themselves and the other passengers, period.
I completely agree. I am sorry but if i paid for a seat, i am getting that whole seat! Half my family is overweight, and it is because they eat bad food and do no exercise. I can sympathise with people who try and loose weight. But if you take up more than what you paid for then you need to pay for another seat. In an ideal world they would have seats that fit every person perfectly and were comfortable, but we do not live in an ideal world. If they are going to make big seats for bigger people then they should still cost a bit more than a standard seat IMO.
post #73 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I pay for my seat and it is mine and I am the only person that is going to be in it, it is as simple as that. There is no way I would spend my entire flight like Tricia did sitting in half a seat. No way. That isn't fair to ME.
Nor in my case, where I had to stand for the better part of 10 hours. If you've never had to pay $700 for the privilage of standing on a plane that long, being harassed by flight attendants for not sitting in a seat that didn't exist, you'll never fully understand.
post #74 of 75
I have a friend who is large (yes, heavy, mostly due to a pituitary issue, but also very large-boned), and she knows she can't sit in a coach airplane seat, so she always gets a first-class ticket.

But personally, I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra if the seats were a little wider. I weigh 155 (with ample hips/thighs) and I just fit in some airlines' seats. Other airlines have better seats.
post #75 of 75
There is a major disconnect here that I'm not getting.

If I'm overweight...OR have a medical issue that requires extra space...or if my personal aura is such that I need an extra seat "just because"...then I pay for the extra seat. Airline travel is not a right. It is a privilege; a privilege that requires one to adhere to a precious few standards, and makes allowances if we sometimes do not. And just because we pay for it doesn't mean that we have to be pandered to.

So, one needs extra room; what does that mean? That either A. they will be forced to impose on the passenger next to them (unfair), or B. The airline will incur a cost to modify the aircraft in some capacity (also unfair, no matter how many people spout, "Ah, who cares, they can afford it").

If airline seats have downsized in some capacity to create this problem, then that is scandalous. However, I've not seen evidence that this is the case.
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