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What to do about pirates?

post #1 of 19
4/13/09 at 4:26pm
Thread Starter 
Oh, if only they were all like Johnny Depp's Capt. Jack Sparrow - tough character with a heart of gold when it comes down to it. Unfortunately, the modern pirates of Somalia have no hearts of gold, and would gladly take someone's heart out if they thought it was made of gold.

I will say this - give credit where credit is due. Obama made a stellar call by not micro-managing the operation and giving them the authority to use the full extent of the law if necessary (meaning, if the Navy saw indications that the Captain's life was in imminent danger, they could use deadly force). Even Rush Limbaugh was giving Obama credit for that call today (although there were still people calling in berating him and saying he's insane for what he said and not ever being happy with Obama ).

Now the Pirates are saying that the US is "enemy number one" and making a lot of threats. Remember that there are some 200 (!!) foreign nationals being held hostage by the pirates. (I knew they had been operating, but did not know they still held that many.) Where are the other nations in fighting for their people???

Of course, Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin) blames Bush for the whole thing. Guess we shouldn't remind him of the whole "Black Hawk Down" debacle where the US left Somalia with our tail between our legs in 1993 because the political fallout was too great. http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...5VWAMY48SwVNUQ But even Feingold says we should be aggressive with this.

Another source says that the Military is considering targeting land-bases of the pirates.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aYhvgOfyTmYA

And another still (read this earlier) says that they are considering armed security forces to be installed on the US ships.

So what do you think should be done?
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post #2 of 19
4/13/09 at 5:02pm
I think we should bring back the good ole' fashioned World War II "Q-boats".
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post #3 of 19
4/13/09 at 7:13pm
Something needs to be done about it, they are a big threat to international commerce. The action taken yesterday was the only logical course of action. Shipping companies and/or ship owners may negotiate a bribe to free their crews but a government should never, ever negotiate into giving in to the demands of the pirates. Doing so would only encourage more piracy. I mentioned in the thread yesterday that there needs to a bigger effort by the international community as a whole in an attempt to thwart piracy. If possible, the pirates should be arrested and tried or killed. I know this is all easier said than done. I don't really know anything about maritime or international law, and that is a lot of ocean to cover. Like terrorism, it's probably something that will never be eliminated.
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post #4 of 19
4/13/09 at 7:14pm
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...211,full.story

I think that we need to consider who the pirates are and why they do what they do. After the collapse of the Somali government, there was no coast guard to keep the many foreign ships traveling thru the Gulf of Aden from illegally dumping toxic waste near the Somali shore, thus destroying the livelihood of the Somali fisherman; foreign fisherman, some from Korea & China, illegal fished away the remaining oceanic populations. Those native fisherman began arming themselves, attempting to protect their fisheries. They inadvertently found a lucrative business in taking things up a notch to piracy.
But it's always simpler just to call them "pirates" & "terrorists" and kill 'em off. Just another unstable region in the world
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post #5 of 19
4/13/09 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsknowme View Post
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...211,full.story

I think that we need to consider who the pirates are and why they do what they do. After the collapse of the Somali government, there was no coast guard to keep the many foreign ships traveling thru the Gulf of Aden from illegally dumping toxic waste near the Somali shore, thus destroying the livelihood of the Somali fisherman; foreign fisherman, some from Korea & China, illegal fished away the remaining oceanic populations. Those native fisherman began arming themselves, attempting to protect their fisheries. They inadvertently found a lucrative business in taking things up a notch to piracy.
But it's always simpler just to call them "pirates" & "terrorists" and kill 'em off. Just another unstable region in the world
I actually did consider those things. But, I also put the entire thing into "big picture" perspective. A vagrant begging for money on the street is someone you feel pity for, someone you often want to help. But if he starts twisting arms and demanding money, then he has "taken things up a notch" and become a criminal. Same with a homeless person rummaging through trash. You want to give him a hand. But if he just kicks down the back door and takes what he wants, then he's made it to criminal status as well. Fishermen taking it up a notch to piracy are just that; pirates and criminals. When there crew retook their ship, they held one pirate, while the pirates held their captain. They bartered a hostage exchange and allowed the pirate to dive in and swim to the lifeboat, while the pirates reneged and kept the captain. If they had merely done the almost honorable thing and kept their word then, they'd be alive now.
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post #6 of 19
4/13/09 at 7:45pm
I don't what to do about Somalia itself. The international community tried once already to try and help the people and restore some semblance of order. The warlords have all of the power; the people have nothing.
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post #7 of 19
4/14/09 at 4:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
I....... A vagrant begging for money on the street is someone you feel pity for, someone you often want to help. But if he starts twisting arms and demanding money, then he has "taken things up a notch" and become a criminal. Same with a homeless person rummaging through trash. You want to give him a hand. But if he just kicks down the back door and takes what he wants, then he's made it to criminal status as well. Fishermen taking it up a notch to piracy are just that; pirates and criminals. ....... If they had merely done the almost honorable thing and kept their word then, they'd be alive now.


Thugs. They held the captain hostage at gunpoint......they're criminals.

Navy Seals rock.
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post #8 of 19
4/14/09 at 4:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons89 View Post
I don't what to do about Somalia itself. The international community tried once already to try and help the people and restore some semblance of order. The warlords have all of the power; the people have nothing.
So true, so sadly, sadly true. Yes, we tried a long time ago & we got "Blackhawk Down". I'm worried that we may wind up with another Iraq/Afghanistan situation. Sometimes it feels like the US is expected to carry the entire world on its shoulders....and yet we Americans have an overabundance of enough heart to feel compassion and enough courage to accomplish the impossible
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post #9 of 19
4/14/09 at 4:37am
"Millions for defense, but not one penny for tribute."

The U.S. fought this battle under Jefferson, and pirates have not attacked American ships for almost 200 years. It may be time to repeat the lesson.
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post #10 of 19
4/15/09 at 9:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsknowme View Post
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...211,full.story

I think that we need to consider who the pirates are and why they do what they do. After the collapse of the Somali government, there was no coast guard to keep the many foreign ships traveling thru the Gulf of Aden from illegally dumping toxic waste near the Somali shore, thus destroying the livelihood of the Somali fisherman; foreign fisherman, some from Korea & China, illegal fished away the remaining oceanic populations. Those native fisherman began arming themselves, attempting to protect their fisheries. They inadvertently found a lucrative business in taking things up a notch to piracy.
But it's always simpler just to call them "pirates" & "terrorists" and kill 'em off. Just another unstable region in the world
Wow, that's interesting, I didn't hear about that part in the news.
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post #11 of 19
4/15/09 at 11:24pm
"inadvertantly found a lucrative business in taking things up a notch...."

oh, for cryin out loud, what PC hogwash; another example making the perps the victims. The toxic waste dumpers are responsible for the toxic waste dumping, the pirates are responsible for piracy. One doesn't absolve the other.

Keelhaul the whole lot of 'em, I say.
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post #12 of 19
4/16/09 at 7:59am
The toxic waste thing actually does make me look at this differently.
The waste has killed all the fish and took away many of the Somali's livlihood.
The piracy is not right but something needs to be done to make fishing a meaning of supporting the fishermen again.
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post #13 of 19
4/16/09 at 8:06am
I've been giving this topic lots and lots of thought.

I really have no solution to the pirate situation. However, I do know that "violence begets violence."

By waging war on the pirates, things have been taken up a notch. In the past they were just holding boats and hostages for ransom. Now that the USA has become involved and have killed a few of them, the pirates may start to kill hostages now too.

The pirates must be doing what they are doing for a reason. Perhaps something needs to be looked at in the areas where they live IE: economic issues. Are they pirating just for the heck of it and something to do in order to fatten their already fat bank accounts? Or are they pirating because they have been living in squaller and have no other way to make income to support themselves and their families?

If it's the latter, then perhaps the world governments should come together and step in and do something more to help the people in that area
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post #14 of 19
4/16/09 at 4:14pm
Hi folks.
This is sort of up my alley. I am owner in small business with DH in what
is called a International freight forwarder for almost 30 years.
We do exports - Ocean / Air international shipping.
I would like to mention a article I read in the Journal of Commerce
a couple weeks ago about Zim Lines (Israeli owned)
steamship line that used barbed wire hanging off a vessel and it was
perfectly effective against pirates climbing on the vessel.
I know from previous experience both by air & sea the Israeli's
are way ahead of everyone on thinking ahead of terrorists.
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post #15 of 19
4/16/09 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms.Blackie View Post
Hi folks.
This is sort of up my alley. I am owner in small business with DH in what
is called a International freight forwarder for almost 30 years.
We do exports - Ocean / Air international shipping.
I would like to mention a article I read in the Journal of Commerce
a couple weeks ago about Zim Lines (Israeli owned)
steamship line that used barbed wire hanging off a vessel and it was
perfectly effective against pirates climbing on the vessel.
I know from previous experience both by air & sea the Israeli's
are way ahead of everyone on thinking ahead of terrorists.
Don't the pirates also have rocket launchers and have used them to blow holes in the ships???
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post #16 of 19
4/16/09 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PookieBoy View Post
Don't the pirates also have rocket launchers and have used them to blow holes in the ships???
I think some of them do, but I think most just have guns from
what i have seen
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post #17 of 19
4/16/09 at 6:24pm
I like Mike's Q-ships suggestion.

The waste dumping isn't right but it's no excuse. When they use armed aggression against innocent cargo ships (carrying relief supplies, no less!!) they should expect an armed response. If you don't stomp on this kind of activity, it just gets worse. I'd like to see some data on how many of those pirates are really former fishermen.
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post #18 of 19
4/16/09 at 6:42pm
The barbed wire is a good idea. Anything like that, that will help is useful. The pirates won't blow holes in the ships because if they sink it, they have nothing for ransom.

The problem with helping the people of Somali out is the warlords take all the food and aid we send.
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post #19 of 19
4/20/09 at 1:20pm
I heard that there are deterrents that can be installed on ships - one is lik an lectric fence and another emits a loud noise when a boat gets close. If that is the truth, then why don't the shipping companies insist on using them?
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