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Senate Bills 773 and 778

post #1 of 28
4/6/09 at 10:29am
Thread Starter 
http://politicalmisconduct.com/senat...-internet.html

http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?f...e&pageId=93966

I'm sure most people won't mind this either.

Big Brother was only a problem when Bush was POTUS.

oh well
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post #2 of 28
4/6/09 at 4:24pm
Quote:
A working draft of the legislation obtained by an Internet privacy group also spells out plans to grant the Secretary of Commerce access to all privately owned information networks deemed to be critical to the nation's infrastructure "without regard to any provision of law, regulation, rule or policy restricting such access."
And people were worried about wiretaps and library records??? This is a much broader authority, much scarier. If people are freaked out about RIAA getting their accounts from their ISPs shut down because they downloaded too many songs for RIAA's liking, this is exponentially worse. Wow.

To paraphrase Thomas Jefferson: Those who are willing to give up freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either.

We're already giving up financial freedoms, and free market economics under Obama. Now this?
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post #3 of 28
4/6/09 at 5:00pm
People complained about big government under Bush, they have seen anything yet.
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post #4 of 28
4/6/09 at 5:14pm
Should I give you the same platitudes that you gave me when Bush made a big grab for secrecy in the government? They are only trying to protect national security. Civil rights are no more important now than they were a year ago and 8 years ago.
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post #5 of 28
4/6/09 at 7:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katachtig View Post
Should I give you the same platitudes that you gave me when Bush made a big grab for secrecy in the government? They are only trying to protect national security. Civil rights are no more important now than they were a year ago and 8 years ago.
LOL, it always goes back to Bush, always and forever, I guess. But, it takes the eye off of what is happening now.

Oh, I think this makes anything President Bush did look like school yard stuff.

But hey, this contry is being handed over willingly, majority rules and the majority just does not care. We will care when it is to late.
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post #6 of 28
4/6/09 at 8:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
LOL, it always goes back to Bush, always and forever, I guess. But, it takes the eye off of what is happening now.

Oh, I think this makes anything President Bush did look like school yard stuff.

But hey, this contry is being handed over willingly, majority rules and the majority just does not care. We will care when it is to late.
Actually, it doesn't appear to me that she's talking about Bush himself. She is talking about the mysterious reversal of attitudes. People that eagerly supported the very same types of action under the last administration are complaining about it now.

That gives it the appearance of mere "sour grapes".
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post #7 of 28
4/6/09 at 9:15pm
Power breeds power. The next President in line never gives back what the previous President grabbed. And so we continue on our merry way back to tyranny.
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post #8 of 28
4/6/09 at 9:17pm
I can't say that I'm super-well versed with this bill (actually I haven't read it yet), but usually these "czars" aren't just for a short time. They are a permanent government feature. You know, like the Drug Czar - that position hasn't gone away. The Patriot Act had an expiration act, and many of the provisions have already been overturned. The whole wiretapping was also deemed to be above the power of the President. The rest will likely be overturned in the next 2 years, with the possible exception of Homeland Security, as Congress and Obama do everything possible to erase everything that Bush did in the last 8 years, whether it was good or bad.

But I'm sorry, but I do see a difference between a possible terrorist attack (oh, sorry, "man-made disaster") and a computer attack. There are a bajillion ways for the people in charge of the computer systems to ensure the security of their own system. I guess if you do have a full "smart grid" that controls or at least tells people what they should do with their home electricity use then it would have to be powered by a central system instead of many individual systems like they have now. Even if there were a cyber-attack, it would be very difficult for them to make a nationwide affect.
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post #9 of 28
4/7/09 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons89 View Post
People complained about big government under Bush, they have seen anything yet.
You are 100% correct. By the time these next 4 years are through, whats left of our rights will be gone. Reminds me of a song I know. The name of the song is Simulated by the band Icon Of Coil. This phrase sums it up "You're incapable to think or breathe for yourself. We pull the strings, cut off the wings. We're in charge of all the peace and of all the noise. You think there is a God, you are only toys. You're toys." Thats what I think of everytime I hear people say, we need a law for this or that. The more we want or let the government take control of our lives the worse off we get. I am sick and tired of it. I for one, do not not need the goverment to tell me what to do or help me in any way. I understand there has to be some laws, don't get me wrong, but all this dumbing down is just making the goverment stronger. Soon, people will be so brain dead, the government will be doing exactly what the lyrics in the song Simulated state, unless we start taking control of our own lives once again. I can not stand what Obama is doing to this country. It makes me sick.
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post #10 of 28
4/7/09 at 12:23pm
all except the last sentence. Don't blame it on Obama. There's enough to share among all of the Federal government and all the people who voted the elected officials that are there. The country is going in this direction because the people are allowing it to happen. If they're allowing it to happen, it's because I presume that's what they want.

Nice quote. Don't know the musicians or the music, but it's spot on.
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post #11 of 28
4/7/09 at 1:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
all except the last sentence. Don't blame it on Obama. There's enough to share among all of the Federal government and all the people who voted the elected officials that are there. The country is going in this direction because the people are allowing it to happen. If they're allowing it to happen, it's because I presume that's what they want.

Nice quote. Don't know the musicians or the music, but it's spot on.
Very true. We have, most definitely, elected the government we deserve.
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post #12 of 28
4/8/09 at 6:55am
Maybe I'm a little too suspicious, but I usually am when there's suddenly a news story that "proves" the reason behind a potentially unpopular bill already introduced.

Cyberspies Penetrate U.S. Electrical Grid, Leave Software That Could Disrupt System
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post #13 of 28
4/8/09 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
all except the last sentence. Don't blame it on Obama. There's enough to share among all of the Federal government and all the people who voted the elected officials that are there. The country is going in this direction because the people are allowing it to happen. If they're allowing it to happen, it's because I presume that's what they want.

Nice quote. Don't know the musicians or the music, but it's spot on.
I really mean the whole administration, not just Obama.
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post #14 of 28
4/8/09 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
Maybe I'm a little too suspicious, but I usually am when there's suddenly a news story that "proves" the reason behind a potentially unpopular bill already introduced.

Cyberspies Penetrate U.S. Electrical Grid, Leave Software That Could Disrupt System
I had exactly the same thought when I heard that story. It's just too curiously (in an unsettling type of way) coincidental. If it's intentional, it's almost too intentional. Do they think us "chattering classes" are total idiots?
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post #15 of 28
4/8/09 at 11:00am
Thread Starter 
It is plain, IMO, that "they" think we are all idiots.
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post #16 of 28
4/8/09 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberThe Bobcat View Post
You are 100% correct. By the time these next 4 years are through, whats left of our rights will be gone. Reminds me of a song I know. The name of the song is Simulated by the band Icon Of Coil. This phrase sums it up "You're incapable to think or breathe for yourself. We pull the strings, cut off the wings. We're in charge of all the peace and of all the noise. You think there is a God, you are only toys. You're toys." Thats what I think of everytime I hear people say, we need a law for this or that. The more we want or let the government take control of our lives the worse off we get. I am sick and tired of it. I for one, do not not need the goverment to tell me what to do or help me in any way. I understand there has to be some laws, don't get me wrong, but all this dumbing down is just making the goverment stronger. Soon, people will be so brain dead, the government will be doing exactly what the lyrics in the song Simulated state, unless we start taking control of our own lives once again. I can not stand what Obama is doing to this country. It makes me sick.
Your right we will have no rights left. They make laws on top of laws. They are chipping away at our ammendment rights at a faster pace. What is going to be left of this Country? Some people talk of Tyranny.

Honestly, I am getting really concerned about the future of this Country.
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post #17 of 28
4/8/09 at 11:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by abbycats View Post
Honestly, I am getting really concerned about the future of this Country.
I see that being expressed by more and more people. Maybe we should do something before they shut down the internet. We can't take out the tyrants by force of arms anymore. The internet is the last weapon we have free access to. Why do you think they want to put this legislation in effect?
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post #18 of 28
4/8/09 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
I see that being expressed by more and more people. Maybe we should do something before they shut down the internet. We can't take out the tyrants by force of arms anymore. The internet is the last weapon we have free access to. Why do you think they want to put this legislation in effect?
I agree with you. They are scared of the internet because it is a poweful tool for communication. The government doesn't want people to communicate and assemble against what is taking place. Once again our first ammendment rights are being squashed.

If the citizens of this country got together in a big assembly and spoke out against what is happening in our country we would be labeled terrorists.
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post #19 of 28
4/8/09 at 11:47am
Government by the government,for the government. That's the monster we have on our hands.
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post #20 of 28
4/8/09 at 12:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
I see that being expressed by more and more people. Maybe we should do something before they shut down the internet. We can't take out the tyrants by force of arms anymore. The internet is the last weapon we have free access to. Why do you think they want to put this legislation in effect?
I agree but people like us that are disturbed by this trend get labeled "fear mongers" or laughed at.

My 85 year old mother is, literally, so worried and scared it is affecting her health.
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post #21 of 28
4/8/09 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons89 View Post
Government by the government,for the government. That's the monster we have on our hands.
We have a big monster on our hands and it's going to get worse.
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post #22 of 28
4/8/09 at 12:48pm
It appears that people have forgotten about the cyberattacks on Lithuania and Estonia:
Hackers Tag Lithuanian Web Sites With Soviet Symbols

Forbes has some very interesting reading on the threat and possible motives for the current leak: The Feds' Timely Cyber Alarm
Quote:
And next week marks the end of a 60-day review of the so-called Cyber Initiative, a classified multibillion-dollar initiative to shore up the nation's cyberdefense that began under the Bush administration. To what degree the private sector will be asked to participate hasn't been revealed.

The timing of the release of the report, says Alan Paller, director of the security-focused SANS Institute, may be more than coincidental. He says that the leak may have been intended to put pressure on utility companies to own up to their security vulnerabilities.
Forbes also covered the threat in earlier reports. From August 2007: America's Hackable Backbone

Quote:
That means that even if outright attacks aren't increasing, there's a growing threat of extortion, says Paller. In fact, the SANS Institute hosts a crisis response center for cyberattacks, and Paller says he's learned of multiple threats within the last year and a half from hackers claiming to have infiltrated SCADA systems and demanding ransom. Other shakedowns have likely gone unreported....In January 2003, computers infected with the Slammer worm shut down safety display systems at the Davis-Besse power plant in Ohio, though the plant was already shut down at the time. Seven months later, another computer virus was widely suspected by security researchers of leading to a power loss at a plant providing electricity to parts of New York State, despite the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's argument that no evidence of virus-involvement was found.
This one is from January 2008: Hackers Cut Cities' Power
Quote:
Cyber-security experts have long warned of the vulnerability of critical infrastructure like power, transportation and water systems to malicious hackers. Friday, those warnings quietly became a reality: Tom Donahue, a CIA official, revealed at the SANS security trade conference in New Orleans that hackers have penetrated power systems in several regions outside the U.S., and "in at least one case, caused a power outage affecting multiple cities."
The U.S. and Canada were already worried back in 2001: Cyberspies and saboteurs: Hackers on the payroll of U.S. security agencies
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post #23 of 28
4/8/09 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
My 85 year old mother is, literally, so worried and scared it is affecting her health.
This is the real problem, not the cyber attacks. The media and the government are playing this up for their own purposes and people like this woman are at their mercy. Let 'em shut down the power grid. It's happened before accidentally. A lot of people get inconvenienced, but it's no major catastrophe. It's back up in a half a day or so.

Cyberterrorists wouldn't even be a threat if systems administrators took intrusion prevention seriously.
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post #24 of 28
4/8/09 at 3:56pm
I can understand wanting to protect any networked infrastructure but like with anything else the potential is there for the government to abuse it and intrude further into people's lives.
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post #25 of 28
4/8/09 at 7:28pm
How sad! It looks like Fox News has become part of "the media".

Or, it could just be a true story.
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post #26 of 28
4/8/09 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
How sad! It looks like Fox News has become part of "the media".

Or, it could just be a true story.
The tag line is "We report, you decide." Still, it will take a lot more than something as insignificant as this to sway our Democratic friends.
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post #27 of 28
4/8/09 at 8:28pm
The media is all the same. Fox tried to be different, but they didn't make it. They all report the same stuff, just altering the fashion of delivery to cater to the wants of their advertisers. I have to agree with katachtig, it's the flip-flopping that makes it sadly funny. Even the people that for years have been crying "flip-flopper" in a demeaning fashion are doing it. I didn't like the Patriot Act. I don't like either one of these bills. Cybersecurity is a maybe, but not an Internet Czar.

Anyway, these bills and the Patriot Act, one just as intrusive as the other; Yet we have people posting "Republican bill - good; Democrat bill -bad"; and vice versa.

Toeing the party line on the rights of the People is barely more useful that doing nothing.
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post #28 of 28
4/8/09 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Anyway, these bills and the Patriot Act, one just as intrusive as the other; Yet we have people posting "Republican bill - good; Democrat bill -bad"; and vice versa.
This I can agree with Skip. Presidents and legislators of one party are just as bad as the other party when it comes to trying to get more power for themselves.
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