Natural Diet Information Resources

auntie crazy

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This thread is for anyone interested in naturally feeding their cats. It will, hopefully, provide all the info and resources you need to feel comfortable feeding your cats the diet nature created them to eat.

Anyone who has info, tips, and/or resources to add - please feel free! The more information we can provide, the easier it will be for those who are researching a raw diet for their cat.

FEEDING METHODOLOGIES

Grinding: All ingredients are ground and mixed together. Advantages = Every meal is nutritionally balanced, easy to feed after (fairly lengthy) preparation. Disadvantages = Doesn't do anything for dental health, doesn't make cats work for their food, taurine may be destroyed in the grinding process and should be supplemented back in (*N1).

Frankenprey: A variety of animal parts are fed in chunks. Advantages = More natural method of feeding than grinding, good for dental health, cats get their chewing workout, fairly easy to source, cost effective. Disadvantages = Requires a feeding schedule to maintain diet balance, may require more daily prep than either grinding or whole prey.

Whole Prey: Whole animals are fed. Advantages = Most natural and nutritionally balanced method of feeding. Disadvantages = Sourcing and cost of the food, "squeamish" factor.

HOW MUCH OF WHAT TO FEED

To determine how many ounces to feed your cats on a daily basis, multiply the cat's weight by 2%, 3% or 4% (*N2). Divide that by however many meals you feed each day to get the ounces to feed per meal. Most folks feed three times a day, some feed two; never feed less than two. (If you have multiple cats, add the weight of all the cats together, multiply that by 2%, 3%, or 4% to get the total daily allowance, then divide that by however many meals you feed to see how many ounces to prepare for each meal.)

That tells you how much to feed. If you're not feeding whole prey, your next step is determining how much of WHAT to feed. You can do this using daily numbers, but it's easier to use weekly numbers, so take that daily total from above and multiply it by 7 to get a weekly total. Now multiple that weekly total by:
80% = ounces of meat to feed each week (*N3)
10% = ounces of bone to feed each week (*N4)
5% = ounces of liver to feed each week
5% = ounces of non-liver organ (spleen, kidneys, etc.) to feed each week

That sounds like a lot of calculations, but you only have to do this once and after feeding raw for just a short time, you may even become comfortable estimating the weight by eye. The numbers don't have to be exact, they're just guidelines. You don't want to go over too much on the bone (your cat might become constipated) or on the liver, so keep an eye on the body wastes - diarrhea means too little bone, constipation means too much. Also keep an eye on your cat's weight - if it goes up too much, cut the amount you feed per meal back a bit; if it drops more than you want (or faster than half a pound or so a week), increase the amount per meal.

*NOTES:
N1 - Taurine is a vital component to a healthy feline diet. The harder a muscle works, the higher its natural taurine content (for example, chicken thighs have more taurine than chicken breasts, and heart, of course, has the highest taurine levels). There are some indications that grinding and freezing may remove or destroy taurine, so use meats with a high natural content or add a taurine supplement to the diet if you do a lot of grinding and/or freezing.
N2 - Your starting percentage depends on your cat's current weight and activity level; the leaner the cat and the higher the activity level, the higher the percentage you start with. If you're not sure what percentage is best, start with 3% and adjust as needed. You should be able to feel your cat's ribs, but not actually see them; if you can't feel them, slowly reduce how much you feed; if you can see them, slowly increase how much you feed.
N3 - For rawfeeding purposes, skin, hearts and gizzards are considered muscle meat. They count toward the 80% muscle meat percentage, not the 5% organ requirement. Skin is quite fatty, so watch your cat's weight and cut back if necessary; heart is a great source of taurine and makes a wonderful addition to your cat's menu; gizzards are great for exercising your cat's jaws.
N4 - Weight-bearing bones are more difficult for cats to break, so try to stay away from them. Rib bones and wing bones are good. Start small and easy and work your way up. Wacking a bone with a hammer is a perfectly acceptable way to help get your cat used to eating bones. (NEVER, EVER feed cooked bone, as they can splinter and cause serious complications.)

More notes:
- Rabbit is a very lean protein source. Cats require more fat in their diet than we do, so, while rabbit is great as a part of the diet, it shouldn't be the sole protein source.
- Beef, pork and venison are perfectly acceptable meat ingredients, but some cats may be reluctant to eat them.

EXAMPLES
I know what I wanted most when I first started was examples, so here's what my cats are going to eat for the next week or so (keep in mind that I have five cats):

Breakfast: Around 8ozs of beef round (comes in precut stew pieces) or pork loin chunks I cut and packaged myself.

Lunch: Usually a chicken quarter with the bones and skin removed. The as-packaged weight on a chicken quarter varies from 8oz to 14oz. If it's closer to 8oz, I'll feed more for dinner, if it's closer to 14oz, I'll feed less.

Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, they'll get something with bone in it for lunch - chicken wings, half a quail, a quarter of a Cornish Hen, or half a chicken breast with ribs.

Twice a week, lunch will be 6 ozs of either chicken or beef liver and 4oz of chicken or beef heart. Also twice a week, lunch will be 6ozs of chicken, beef or pork kidneys and 4oz of chicken or beef heart.

Dinner: For this week, most likely a turkey drumstick with the bones and skin removed. These drumsticks range in weight from 11ozs up to 18ozs each (as packaged). Every now and then, I'll try something different, like bison meat, just for the fun and variety of it.

Another example that includes grinding could look like this:
(In this example, the weekly total of bone, liver and other organ is ground separately, divided by 7, and then combined together and fed as a single meal each day.

Breakfast: A mix of ground chicken wings, chicken liver or beef liver, chicken kidney or beef kidney and enough chicken hearts to bring the total meal weight to 8 ozs.

Lunch: About 8ozs of beef round (comes in precut stew pieces) or pork loin chunks I cut and packaged myself.

Dinner: A chicken quarter or a turkey thigh with the bones and skin removed, weight (after prep) ranges anywhere from 8oz up to 14oz.

HANDY TOOLS

Kitchen shears, medium and large carving knives, freezer bags and/or plastic containers. A scale that registers down to the half ounce (mine is actually a baby scale). A knife sharpener (skin dulls a knife fast!!). A chest freezer. If you grind any bone, you'll need a meat grinder; if you grind just meats, a good-quality blender will do.

Online Non-forum Resources

catinfo.org
catnutrition.org
rawdiettruthblog
rawlearning.com
rawfed.com
rawfedcats.org

SOURCING MEATS

Online Vendors: Rodent Pro / Hare Today / Prey 4 Pets

Local Sources: Ethnic markets are often good sources for hard-to-find organ meats.

Barter groups and coops. There’s usually an annual cost, but everything you get is fresh – a benefit to your pets and your family.

Tell friends and relatives who hunt and fish that you are interested in animal parts they don't want. Talk to restaurants and caterers and ask for organs and other meat pieces they throw out. Also try the restaurant suppliers.

Your local butcher. Ask for the meats and organs they would normally throw out, including items that are nearing expiration.

For the non-squeamish…

Taxidermists. Local animal breeders and farmers (don’t forget to ask about culls and still-born animals).

Slaughterhouses, meat and poultry packers and distributors. Ask for organ meats that normally get tossed. Also ask what else they throw away.

Livestock auctions (the animals can be butchered for you).

Cost-Cutting Tips: Ask about bulk purchasing everywhere. Watch for sales and marked-down meats, even in your local grocery store. (I get chicken liver and beef heart for less than a dollar a pound sometimes.)

Join a Costco, Sams Club or other similar club store.

Craigslist and Freecycle. You can watch for deals as well as advertise that you’ll pick up hunting and fishing remains, cleaned-out freezer meats, etc.
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mschauer

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My added bold:
Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

Grinding: All ingredients are ground and mixed together. Advantages = Every meal is nutritionally balanced, easy to feed after (fairly lengthy) preparation. Disadvantages = Doesn't do anything for dental health, doesn't make cats work for their food, taurine is destroyed in the grinding process and must be supplemented back in.
I've never heard this before. Why would grinding destroy taurine? I've heard freezing destroys some of the taruine but there doesn't seem to be agreement even on that. Taurine might not even be added to a ground mixture that includes heart (a rich source of taurine) or it might be added as a precaution if the mixture is to be frozen. Some people don't even add the taurine before freezing but add it just before serving instead.
 

sharky

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Originally Posted by mschauer

My added bold:


I've never heard this before. Why would grinding destroy taurine? I've heard freezing destroys some of the taruine but there doesn't seem to be agreement even on that. Taurine might not even be added to a ground mixture that includes heart (a rich source of taurine) or it might be added as a precaution if the mixture is to be frozen. Some people don't even add the taurine before freezing but add it just before serving instead.
... I only added taurine when no heart was served...
 
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auntie crazy

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The process by which taurine is destroyed in grinding is totally unknown. We only know that it is because a study was performed in which the cats were fed ground and had issues that were traced back to taurine deficiency. This is one of the biggest reasons cited by whole prey feeders for not feeding ground.

I'll try to find the particulars for the study....
 

mschauer

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It should be pointed out that the study in question does not conclude that "grinding destroys taurine". It merely points that there was a taurine deficiency in the raw rabbit diet they fed. They speculate on various reasons why but don't come to any definite conclusion. Also note that they froze the rabbit after grinding.

How could a wild type diet result in taurine deficiency? The raw rabbit diet we fed contained the minimal requirement of taurine and was therefore not considered deficient for a highly digestible diet. However, the amount of taurine available to the cat in a diet depends on a number of factors, such as the amount of protein, the quality of the protein, whether the diet is cooked or raw, and what other ingredients are present in the diet that might increase the amount of taurine needed (Backus et al., 1998) (Park et al, 1999). It is also possible that bacteria in the carcass of the ground rabbits or in the intestine of the cats broke down some of the taurine. Neither of these circumstances would be detrimental to diets containing excess levels of taurine, but would be detrimental if the diet was borderline deficient. Vitamin E levels in our raw rabbit diet were low and this can cause the meat to lose taurine as it is processed and ground (Lambert et al., 2001).
 
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auntie crazy

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How about this as a clarification, then: There are indications that grinding and freezing may lower taurine content. Since taurine is vital to feline heart health, if you grind or freeze your cat's food, it's a good idea to add a taurine supplement to the diet.
 

mschauer

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Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

How about this as a clarification, then: There are indications that grinding and freezing may lower taurine content. Since taurine is vital to feline heart health, if you grind or freeze your cat's food, it's a good idea to add a taurine supplement to the diet.
Is there any reason to believe grinding has anything to do with it? Isn't it also possible that taurine is destroyed even if meat is frozen unground?

BTW, do you have any idea when this study was conducted???
 
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auntie crazy

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While the authors of the study may not have definitively concluded that grinding caused the taurine loss, that's generally accepted to be the case by long-term raw cat feeders. Although I'm only two months into the actual experience of raw feeding, I've done a huge (perhaps obsessive) amount of research and this is what I've found to be the consensus.

Knowing whether the raw cat feeders are correct or not will have to wait for another study, but something certainly caused the loss. Because taurine is so vital to a cat's health, I feel I would be remiss if I didn't at least NOTE the possibility that grinding and/or freezing reduces the amount of taurine available and to recommend supplements as a fail-safe for those who feed using these methods.
 

sharky

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Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

While the authors of the study may not have definitively concluded that grinding caused the taurine loss, that's generally accepted to be the case by long-term raw cat feeders. Although I'm only two months into the actual experience of raw feeding, I've done a huge (perhaps obsessive) amount of research and this is what I've found to be the consensus.

Knowing whether the raw cat feeders are correct or not will have to wait for another study, but something certainly caused the loss. Because taurine is so vital to a cat's health, I feel I would be remiss if I didn't at least NOTE the possibility that grinding and/or freezing reduces the amount of taurine available and to recommend supplements as a fail-safe for those who feed using these methods.
we all learn as we all research ... among those I personally know who raw feed from years to decades this is not the general feeling but yes more study is needed ... the internet is a great tool but often lacks the true experience angle
 

mschauer

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Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

While the authors of the study may not have definitively concluded that grinding caused the taurine loss, that's generally accepted to be the case by long-term raw cat feeders.
That may well be but if their belief is based just on that study then their belief has no basis in fact.

Although I'm only two months into the actual experience of raw feeding, I've done a huge (perhaps obsessive) amount of research and this is what I've found to be the consensus.
Of course it is also the "consensus" among vets that raw feeding is dangerous and should not be done.
Consenus is frequently little more than agreement among people who are like minded to begin with.

Knowing whether the raw cat feeders are correct or not will have to wait for another study, but something certainly caused the loss. Because taurine is so vital to a cat's health, I feel I would be remiss if I didn't at least NOTE the possibility that grinding and/or freezing reduces the amount of taurine available and to recommend supplements as a fail-safe for those who feed using these methods.
The consenus that I have gleemed is that freezing meat, ground or not, diminishes the taurine. Also, commerically raised animals have lower taurine levels than their wild counter parts. I think the more approriate note should be that supplemental taurine would be a good idea regardless of whether the raw is fed ground or whole.

I add taurine to my ground raw mixtures. If I'm not mistaken it is actual fact as opposed to mere consensus that excess levels of taurine are not harmful.
 
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auntie crazy

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Ok, here's some reference material for the reading-minded folks who'd like to make up their own minds:

Taurine by Ch. M. Ruessheim

Taurine in Cats

Mschauer believes freezing reduces taurine content. Others believe grinding does the same thing (both of these are now noted in my original post). Still others believe that any significant trauma to the meat begins breaking down the amino acid. In all of these cases, feeding taurine-rich meats or adding a taurine supplement to the diet will address the issue. Taurine is water soluble so, as Mschauer says, it's hard to overdose your kitties with it.

On a personal note - I feed chicken and beef heart a couple times a week and the only ground I offer is solely as a vehicle for the bone requirement (an ounce or less a day). Although everything I feed typically gets frozen first, I am comfortable with the taurine content and do not use a taurine supplement.
 

sharky

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Yes , taurine is a amino acid and is thus water soluble and the chance of OD is nil ... Some of us have actual formal education in nutrition


Testing and studies with no control worry me ... was the freezing done like you do at Home , Flash frozen , were they sub zeroed all could cause a different outcome... I add taurine to commercial food several times a week ( ie canned ).... My raw comes mostly from local sources and I get it way fresher than folks using the grocery store( lots of freeze and thaw cycles by the time it gets to the store)
 

mschauer

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Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

Mschauer believes freezing reduces taurine content.
A small correction here. I don't believe or not believe that freezing reduces taurine content. I just stated what I had heard from other sources. I try to be careful about stating things as facts if I don't know them to be facts. I have been sloppy about that at times though.
 

dwmeowmix

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Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

Here's a detailed review of the "grinding destroys taurine" line of reasoning: Raw DietTruth blog.
This "source" has been significantly edited not giving the whole picture of the study. I read this study on the Winn Feline Foundation website when Woody got sick with IBD. After re-reading it I still do not see where grinding meat (the study only dealt with rabbit) significantly reduces taurine levels. There are slight decreases, yes I will grant you that with all the other factors involved as to why taurine levels decrease, I maintain that the study is inconclusive.
 
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auntie crazy

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A new website with lots of raw-food info. I haven't read all the way through it, but it's looking good so far!

The Feline Nutrition Education Society

And I am beyond delighted to discover at least one US vendor has removed dry cat food from their shelves and is refusing to sell it henceforth. While I believe it's a guarantee the Pet Food Industry will eventually have to stop making kibble for cats, I now have hope it may actually happen in my lifetime. *cavorts ecstatically*
 

mschauer

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Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

A new website with lots of raw-food info. I haven't read all the way through it, but it's looking good so far!

The Feline Nutrition Education Society

And I am beyond delighted to discover at least one US vendor has removed dry cat food from their shelves and is refusing to sell it henceforth. While I believe it's a guarantee the Pet Food Industry will eventually have to stop making kibble for cats, I now have hope it may actually happen in my lifetime. *cavorts ecstatically*
Great site! Looks like it pulls together a lot of information using only credible sources.

Thanks for pointing to out!
 
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