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Abayomi Abyssianians - Vancouver: Any opinions? - Page 2  

post #31 of 50
10/1/09 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekochan View Post
I have a wonderful cat who is not from a "show" breeder but does match the standard except for one way. We wanted a certain color of Maine Coon (black)-- which is often not bred by "show" breeders because they don't do well in the show ring. In fact another breeder I was looking into getting a cat from did not have any planned litters with black kittens because they are hard to show, and the last time I talked to her at a show she said she wasn't going to breed for black anymore for that reason.
My Maine Coon would be "show quality" if she wasn't polydactyl. I love the polydactyls and it bothers me that they cannot be shown, since this trait was present in the original Maine Coons. My cat has been shown in "New Traits" (TICA) and HHP (CFA).
I think I've said it before but come and live in NZ where multiple toes are welcome in MCO. In fact I was the second judge in New Zealand [pipped at the post by 5 minutes] to judge one.
post #32 of 50
10/1/09 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteforest View Post
I'm chiming in here as someone who neither breeds nor owns purebred cats... In my opinion, paying for a purebred cat as a "pet only" from a reputable breeder means not only purchasing a cat with a certain physical appearance you desire, but purchasing a peace of mind knowing that the cats in the the lines are either free and clear of any genetic health issues or what potential health issues may be present..
Yes, here I totally agree- plus you should get a cat that has been well socialized.

I'd also always have a look at the living conditions of the studs, which must be accepable. For me personally this would mean no studs living in cages.


Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteforest View Post
Health/genetic testing and general care by veterinarians is a way to determine if a cat should or should not be bred based on their health. Showing cats, in my mind, is a way for breeders to have their breeding stock evaluated on a physical standard to determine whether or not it's a cat that should be bred. Both of these factors combined are what tell a reputable breeder to breed or to neuter, and the process to determine that is a costly one. In an effort to break even, kittens cost more.

Yes and No. A breeder should take each cat to at least one or two shows to have it evaluated. I wouldn't nessesarily buy a cat from a breeder who's constantly going to shows with the cats as breeding also shouldn't just be about prizes and shows (and this is the feeling I get with some breeders) ....

I'm friends with an Aby breeder who goes to shows every now and then, she once told me that the greatest compliment she ever got from a fellow breeder was that her cats have an unbelievable low inbreeding value.

regards,

christine
post #33 of 50
10/1/09 at 4:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WellingtonCats View Post
I'd have to disagree with you on this, Linda.
I'm just a bit confused, you disagree that they are "reputable" or you disagree they are "not reputable"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekochan View Post
I have a wonderful cat who is not frnm a "show" breeder but does match the standard except for one way. We wanted a certain color of Maine Coon (black)-- which is often not bred by "show" breeders because they don't do well in the show ring. In fact another breeder I was looking into getting a cat from did not have any planned litters with black kittens because they are hard to show, and the last time I talked to her at a show she said she wasn't going to breed for black anymore for that reason.
My Maine Coon would be "show quality" if she wasn't polydactyl. I love the polydactyls and it bothers me that they cannot be shown, since this trait was present in the original Maine Coons. My cat has been shown in "New Traits" (TICA) and HHP (CFA).
And that's part of the problem I have with some breeders and the associations that dictate what is and is not acceptable. Who gets to say that a black Maine Coon is not as worthy as the others or it's a "throwaway" because it has 6 toes?
post #34 of 50
10/1/09 at 5:22pm
If you show you know that certain colors or styles are more popular then others. Solid Maine Coons are not a popular color in the breed and breeders will want to work with what will sell. If you have quality cats, you CAN get grands in most any color if you work on it.

It took YEARS and YEARS for Turkish Angora breeders to be willing to work with the other non-white TA's. You only have recently seen non white TA's in shows because a few breeders kept working with the colors till they were as good of quality as the white ones. This takes a heck of a lot of work, time, money AND SHOWING the cats in many shows to be accepted.

That is why its important for dedicated reputable breeders to breed the best to the best and to get out and show their cats.

Believe me, when the color TA's were first out there, the type and quality were NO where near what the white ones were.
post #35 of 50
10/1/09 at 5:32pm
Wrinkles breeder does not show but she breeds with cats that are shown.
Sphynx were not allowed in CFA before.
The good breeders I know are not in it for the money at all.
It is not cheap to breed.
Some of them are losing money in fact.
Showing is not cheap either.
It adds uo fast.
I am the first one to show a cat fromthe breeder Wrinkles came from.
I already got told off in august over this at a show.
post #36 of 50
10/1/09 at 5:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
I'm just a bit confused, you disagree that they are "reputable" or you disagree they are "not reputable"?




And that's part of the problem I have with some breeders and the associations that dictate what is and is not acceptable. Who gets to say that a black Maine Coon is not as worthy as the others or it's a "throwaway" because it has 6 toes?
I disagree with you that they are reputable
post #37 of 50
10/1/09 at 8:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohni View Post
I can offer an opinion there. It is insanely difficult to show cats in the Vancouver/Vancouver Island/Lower Mainland area. There are on average one show per registry per year within a 5 hour drive. It's been driving me crazy.
You're very correct here. Not everybody has the luxury of being able to show frequently. I'm fortunate enough to have at least one show within a day's driving distance nearly every weekend of the year--in CFA alone! And I usually have a pick between two or three shows at that.

Yet there are other ways to have the quality of a program evaluated and recognized. While a breeder might not be able to show their cats personally, they can still work with other breeders who are able to show. A breeder with limited showing options also has to cherry pick their shows carefully and make sure to attend the shows that are most important for their particular breed.
post #38 of 50
10/1/09 at 9:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WellingtonCats View Post
I disagree with you that they are reputable
Me too. Anyone at all can go out and buy (have shipped or pick up in person) two cats and become a "breeder". That is why reputable breeders send pet quality cats home already altered. Anyone can (on purpose or "accidently") be a breeder of mixes or purebreds, and many do during the course of life, a quick internet search or look in the paper will show this. But there is A LOT more to reputable breeding than just buying two cats and breeding. Even if you do pay for the shots on the kittens, and have a pedigree in your hands, it matters little if you don't know a thing about it or the cats in that pedigree or really have hands on knowledge of the breed standard, there is so much more to breeding than that to be reputable and responsible when breeding cats IMO.
post #39 of 50
10/1/09 at 9:34pm
That is true.
So many breeders know nothing about HCM which sphynx get.
You really need to have a pedigree when you get purebred cats so you know if anything runs in the lines.
post #40 of 50
10/1/09 at 9:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
I have to say in all honesty that I would hardly be able to afford even a pet quality cat from one of these breeders so I'm sure glad there are some others out there that allow poorer folks like me to enjoy these wonderful animals.
I disagree that only 'rich' people can afford purebred cats from reputable breeders, I know I certainly didn't decide on a purebred one day and go out and pay for one the next.
A little planning and saving (even over a year or two) and most people can afford a purebred.

Also, over here most pet quality cats are the same price as show neuters. It's only entires that have a price difference.
post #41 of 50
10/1/09 at 10:08pm
I am not rich and saved up for my sphynx cats.
They are not cheap but are worth what I paid
The price also depends on what breed you want.
There are certain breeds you can get fromgood breeders for $500.
post #42 of 50
10/1/09 at 10:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mews2much View Post
[color=magenta]
I am the first one to show a cat fromthe breeder Wrinkles came from.
I already got told off in august over this at a show.
You got told off for showing a cat? why?
post #43 of 50
10/1/09 at 10:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
If you show you know that certain colors or styles are more popular then others. Solid Maine Coons are not a popular color in the breed and breeders will want to work with what will sell. If you have quality cats, you CAN get grands in most any color if you work on it.
I've been told that the black Maine Coons are especially difficult to title. Some say that it is because they don't show up well in the judging cages, they kinda blend in with any shadows and their features are more difficult to distinguish.
Personally I love the black MCs, they are just gorgeous cats and I would show mine if I could. I did do the TICA "New Traits" class partly just to make a point and also to get the judges' opinion on how well she matches up to the breed standard, which I got positive feedback on from the judges as to her being a good representative of the breed. She also did very well in HHP in CFA until she started to get upset at the smells of the other cats after a few shows, which caused her to hiss in the judging cages. My cat's breeder was thrilled that I wanted to show her.
post #44 of 50
10/1/09 at 10:31pm
I was told off by a breeder at show last August before I even had Wrinkles because her breeder does not show.
I have not talked to her since then either.
post #45 of 50
10/1/09 at 10:35pm
How incredibly snotty. I'm starting to get the impression that pure-bred cat showing is all about politics, not cats!
post #46 of 50
10/1/09 at 10:39pm
I am showing my other sphynx tomorrow,sat and sun and I am sure she will be there.
There are a lot of nice people at the shows also.
Do not think everyone is that way.
I can not show Wrinkles yet she is not old enough.
post #47 of 50
10/2/09 at 1:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cococat View Post
Me too. Anyone at all can go out and buy (have shipped or pick up in person) two cats and become a "breeder". That is why reputable breeders send pet quality cats home already altered. Anyone can (on purpose or "accidently") be a breeder of mixes or purebreds, and many do during the course of life, a quick internet search or look in the paper will show this. But there is A LOT more to reputable breeding than just buying two cats and breeding. Even if you do pay for the shots on the kittens, and have a pedigree in your hands, it matters little if you don't know a thing about it or the cats in that pedigree or really have hands on knowledge of the breed standard, there is so much more to breeding than that to be reputable and responsible when breeding cats IMO.
Everyone can buy pretty cats, breed them, show them and do well. That is not my definition of a reputable breeder.

Mine is a breeder who puts the wellbeing of their cats and their breed in general first. Who when forced to choose between a cat show and a health seminar in the same weekend will skip the show anytime. Because beauty is only skin deep but knowledge about health and behaviour is so much more important. A breeder who rather spends her money on for example yearly HCM and PKD ultrasounds and DNA tests than on showing.
I know such breeders and their kittens still do well in the show ring.

I also know breeders whose cats do extremely well at shows and therefore have a very good reputation, but they do not do all the health testing. They often inbreed to fix traits and all seem to use they same lines that do well at show. IMO that is doing a far bigger disservice to a breed than not showing because they are creating a genetical bottleneck.

I've always agreed with the adage that when breeding responsibly health comes first, temperament second and beauty definitely last. That is what I base my evaluation of who is a reputable breeder on.
I'm amazed by the way breeders who do not show are written off by some people here. There are definitely more important things to breeding cats and the cats will still look like breed X
post #48 of 50
10/2/09 at 3:49am
I think it should be a balance between the two - you show AND you health test. Unless you do both, you are not improving the cat and you are not breeding to the standard.

You cannot sit home and breed cats, test them for health and then say you have "show" quality cats without going out there and competing in the rings one way or another. If you can't get to shows, then you find people who can show your cats and do well so it can be reflected back to your cats.

AND you need to keep your current breeding cats in the rings with titles. Doesn't do a bit of good to claim show cats when your champion/grand champion is 4 or 5 generations away from the cats you are breeding (that have no titles). They are NOT show quality kittens.
post #49 of 50
10/2/09 at 5:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimosa View Post
Everyone can buy pretty cats, breed them, show them and do well. That is not my definition of a reputable breeder.

Mine is a breeder who puts the wellbeing of their cats and their breed in general first. Who when forced to choose between a cat show and a health seminar in the same weekend will skip the show anytime. Because beauty is only skin deep but knowledge about health and behaviour is so much more important. A breeder who rather spends her money on for example yearly HCM and PKD ultrasounds and DNA tests than on showing.
I know such breeders and their kittens still do well in the show ring.

I also know breeders whose cats do extremely well at shows and therefore have a very good reputation, but they do not do all the health testing. They often inbreed to fix traits and all seem to use they same lines that do well at show. IMO that is doing a far bigger disservice to a breed than not showing because they are creating a genetical bottleneck.

I've always agreed with the adage that when breeding responsibly health comes first, temperament second and beauty definitely last. That is what I base my evaluation of who is a reputable breeder on.
I'm amazed by the way breeders who do not show are written off by some people here. There are definitely more important things to breeding cats and the cats will still look like breed X

A very good post, Mimosa. I totally agree with you.

regards,

Christine
post #50 of 50
10/2/09 at 6:10am
This whole thread has gone way off the original topic and I have contributed to that for which I apologize. At this point it has become about show/no show and whether that indicates a reputable breeder so I shall close this thread now.
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