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Ok, I guess this was not very smart but could not help it.

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
I have now had Avalon for little over a month. Yesterday at Petsmart, I saw canaries there and could not resist. I bought one. I have a nice metal cage for him and he sings. His cage can fit on a ledge that is still out of Avalon's reach. Avalon can jump though.

I was wondering how do I get these two to learn to co-exist?
post #2 of 26


You should have bought a canary from a breeder saved about $75.

Anyway, you say the cage is on a ledge?
Doesn't sound like the cage will be big enough.
Unlike parrots who climb, canaries must fly to get exercise and the standard 'canary/parakeet' cages sold at pet stores are far, far too small.

Here is a great site that I found while I kept canaries
http://www.canaryadvisor.com/canary-bird-cage.html

As for your question:

You should never trust a cat alone and unsupervised with a small bird.
Small birds, because they are so active, will always attract the attention of a cat.
My canaries and finches had their own room with a secure door for night time and when I was not there to supervise.

Even now, with a good sized parrot, my cats that have been around him their whole life are fascinated with Murphy, only with him, the danger is to the cats.
They can learn to coexist, but a cat should never, ever be trusted, no matter how docile it may seem.
Just a bird getting cat saliva on it can kill it.
post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the advice. I love finches too but I am afraid to own them as well with Avalon in the house and there is no place to put their cage. Well, let me ask you this about finches, do they have to be in a warm room?

When you said, you put your canaries and finches in a secure room at night, what room was that?

What I do is during the day; just so we can hear the canary sing, we keep the Avalon in her room unless we have SSSCAT device at the bottom of the ledge to keep her away from the bird cage. We are also thinking of getting catscram. Then at night, I keep the canary in this room with the cage covered and the door closed so that Avalon can have run of this house at night. When my husband and I are not home, it is the same thing. When I leave the house and my husband is home, I put Avalon in her room so that my husband can hear the bird sing but I cannot keep Avalon out since my husband tends to fall asleep (he had medical issues). At Petsmart, they told me I have to introduce those two but never in their lives, keep them alone together.

I was wondering if I get those bigger cages with the heavy stands, can a cat still knock the cage down. We are also thinking of hanging the cage on day on the room divider beam. We just have to put the hook on their to hold the cage.

If you have not heard of catsram, you can google it and what they claim is really interesting but I would rather get it at a pet store rather than order online. I am trying to see if a local pet store carries it.
post #4 of 26
I've lost birds to cats when cages were hung.
Cats will swing from them like a trapeze until the cage falls.
What you are doing sounds fine.

I had a bird room
Over 100 birds so they kind of had to have their own room.
I did bird rescue for many years.

Ideally, a cat should never even be able to get close to a bird cage, much less touch it.
If your husband is handy, your safest route is probably to build a small indoor aviary.
There are tons of ideas and plans on the web as well as safe, suitable materials.

Or, you could have a furniture quality arcylic cage built, but these are very expensive.

An aviary or acrylic cage are going to be your most cat proof options.

ETA: depends on the finch, but most widely available species do just fine at room temperature.

Here is the website of IMO one of the best exotic finch breeders in the US.
His site is full of useful information on a variety of finch species.
http://zebrafinch.com/
post #5 of 26
Thread Starter 
I am sorry you lost birds to cats. You must have a big house to keep an aviary room. We only have three bedrooms. The room where I keep the computer, file cabinet, and the bookshelves. Our master bedroom and then a room for Avalon. I am only going to keep one canary or maybe we will add a girl bird there.

I looked into the catscram thing and the local petstores never heard of it. I then phoned the bird clinic since Banfield does not handle birds and they told me that birds have good hearing like cats unless you personally know different. They also told us not to use air freshener sprays and not to smoke in around the canary.

Scccat does work though since my cat gets afraid of it only it sensors just straight and does not rotate. Catscram works not only straight but 40 degrees around each side (just like we have our peripheral vision).
post #6 of 26
No air fresheners, no smoking, no incense, no overheated teflon, no candles, no strong cleaners, basically nothing that puts off smoke or fumes.
I keep nothing that has a teflon coating.

Birds have an especially sensitive respiratory system, canaries even moreso, this is why canaries were used in coal mines to detect gas pockets.
If the canary died, it wasn't safe for the miners.
post #7 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlyn View Post
No air fresheners, no smoking, no incense, no overheated teflon, no candles, no strong cleaners, basically nothing that puts off smoke or fumes.
I keep nothing that has a teflon coating.

Birds have an especially sensitive respiratory system, canaries even moreso, this is why canaries were used in coal mines to detect gas pockets.
If the canary died, it wasn't safe for the miners.
That is what the bird clinic told me. I think that is awful cruel they used canaries to test the fumes.

Can canaries hear as good as cats. I am asking because I am debating whether or not to get Catscram. It is a sensor that detects a moving object like a cat and then emits a high pitch sound that scares the cat. Humans cannot hear this noise.
post #8 of 26
I know they hear well, I don't know how well though, sorry.
post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlyn View Post
I keep nothing that has a teflon coating.
A little O/T but not only do those non-stick coatings put off fumes they can also come off in any food cooked in them. IMO - teflon coated pans are just not worth the trouble.

And you've given some great advice, btw. I hope any other readers are taking notes. If I ever get the urge to get a bird I'll definitely ask you for advice... though I've always been rather partial to doves and they seem to be so to me (wild ones will get as close as they can to me and coo at me ).
post #10 of 26
Doves are awesome, but if you have room, I'd suggest pigeons instead.
You can free-fly pigeons, doves, unfortunately, lack a homing instinct.

I've had fantail pigeons, not recommended for free flight, the mutation makes flying difficult for them.
I've also had racing pigeons, tumblers and rollers, and I've had ringneck and diamond doves.
Tumblers and rollers are interesting, they are for exhibition flight.

Here are tumblers in flight, hard to see, but they tumble in the air
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z4VA...eature=related

And here are some rollers in flight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJAZL...eature=related

Here's an even better video of rollers in flight, it's slo-mo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGwDO...eature=related
post #11 of 26
Neat videos, though the first two made me a bit dizzy.

There's a person on the other side of town that I'm pretty sure has tumblers.
I'd have to pass on ringnecks - no matter how fascinated the male ringneck that's claimed my backyard (with his mate) is with me. Some how the species has taken over the area in the last 3 years, competing and maybe even pushing out the more gentle (and smaller) mourning doves to some extent. Now it's squawking ringnecks everywhere.
But who knows, with them nesting back there I might end up with a surprise in the yard one day.

I've always thought diamond doves were pretty.

...We've pretty much derailed tweetykiss's thread, or made her want doves, too.
post #12 of 26
Thread Starter 
You have not derailed my thread. I love getting opinions on the birds since I am a bird lover too. Now I am thinking of getting a hanging bird feeder for my back yard but I wonder if it will attract variety of birds at all since I am a metro dweller.

My uncle had doves and two Persians at the same time. He didn't need to keep the Persians separated from the birds. Believe it or not, he had to get two separate cages for the doves since they didn't get along. The cages were at floor level and his cats never once bothered them.

Arlyn, you said you did bird rescue, what exactly is bird rescue?
post #13 of 26
Persians are usually laid back cats, so that doesn't surprise me much. I know all of mine are not, but I have a separate room already for my geckos with enough space that I could fit a very large bird cage in.

And go get that feeder! You'll have visitors, but it may take a few days for them to start showing up. I'm actually going to get a feeder today, too. No idea why, there's just this sudden urge to put one in the backyard. Maybe thats what the bird staring has been about - subliminal messages to get them a feeder.

I'm thinking now that these larger doves around here might actually be eurasian collard doves. I'll have to look at their tail feathers....maybe ask them what they are while I'm at it.
post #14 of 26
Bird rescue is the same as it is for dogs and cats, same for reptiles too, but that requires even more room.
Most people are unaware that many thousands of birds are dumped in shelters as well.
Mostly I think it's because some people do not understand what they are getting into with birds, they are a ton more work than people think, especially parrots, and they get overwhelmed.

Most of my rescue birds were finches, canaries, pigeons and doves, quite a few were parakeets and cockatiels, 4 were lovebirds and 6 were parrots.
I also had button quail rescues.
Most shelters are not equipped to deal with birds, so I stepped up

I was able to place all the doves, the quail and pigeons with two people with large outdoor aviaries.
All of the parakeets and cockatiels went to a lady in Bremerton Washington with a large bird barn and several segregated indoor/outdoor aviaries.
The finches and canaries went to 4 different people, though most went to one guy with a huge indoor aviary.

3 parrots and 4 lovebirds were transported via transport teams to an exotic bird sanctuary in Eugene Oregon, 2 parrots were so neglected they didn't live long and the last parrot I kept until she passed away 2 years ago.

I briefly also worked with a bird rehab lady and raised an orphaned crow and was able to return him to his murder several months later.
That was really hard, baby birds of any species are just so endearing, but the last thing you want is to become attached to them, or them to you.
post #15 of 26
Thread Starter 
Strange Wings, thanks for explaining about Persians. I guess that is one of the many reasons they are so expensive. Someone at Petsmart told me not the get the hanging feeders since she had some of her's knocked down by the birds so she recommended that I just put the feed on the cement and the birds will come.

Arlyn, thanks for explaining about bird rescue. That is something I would love to do but don't have much space in my backyard of my inside of the house. I live in the city where there is never enough space. I am lucky if I can fit a garden here but I managed it one year.
post #16 of 26
Wonderful advice, Arlyn! I have 5 parrots, a gouldian, and a pair of canaries. The finches have their own room that can be closed off at night, along with my amazon and the two smaller parrots.

It's a bit more work to keep cats and birds in the same household, but it can be done.
post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadera View Post
Wonderful advice, Arlyn! I have 5 parrots, a gouldian, and a pair of canaries. The finches have their own room that can be closed off at night, along with my amazon and the two smaller parrots.

It's a bit more work to keep cats and birds in the same household, but it can be done.
I have a canary and one kitten. It is work but now it is second nature to me. They have now been introduced or so I think. Avalon is not obsessed with Sanjay like she used to be.

I do want finches though.
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetykiss View Post
Someone at Petsmart told me not the get the hanging feeders since she had some of her's knocked down by the birds so she recommended that I just put the feed on the cement and the birds will come.
Well, you have to hang them so that they're not easily knocked down. I've never seen birds knock one down, but bad winds can (70+mph gusts knock just about anything down - including trees ).
The reason you should hang some feeders is because even though you keep your cat in, not all of your neighbors will. Also some birds prefer this - wild finches usually like hanging feeders. Then you will have other larger birds, like wild doves, that will come eat what is dropped below. Different birds like to feed at different levels.
If you really don't like hanging feeders you can make a raised platform type feeder - my FIL used one he built for years and several of the more flighty birds loved it (cardinals and gold finches included). One benefit of a platform feeder is that you can also use them if you choose to feed your local birds worms (meal worms and wax worms are feed by some people).

Another idea: Before you pick out your feeder. Think about the area around where you'll be putting it. Are there need by trees or bushes for smaller more easily spooked birds to hide? If not, you may not get as many finches. What sort of birds would you prefer to see? If in a city/town setting expect starlings - though I haven't noticed them bothering hanging feeders as much. If you attract blue jays expect them to take over.

DH put my hanging feeder out around 10:30 and we had finches within an hour.
post #19 of 26
Sorry but I would never really advise having a cat or dog and prey animals together for very long. I've had birds, fish, hamsters, lizards, turtles, cats, dogs, and rabbits as pets..........just did not have a dog or cat in the house with the smaller prey-type animals.
post #20 of 26
Thread Starter 
After two months we have decided to sell the bird. I have already put online ads and got a few responses.

Can a full grown cat jump at least 5'8" from standing straight up?
post #21 of 26
Proof that impulse purchases are usually bad ideas - but you knew that shortly after getting your bird. Oh well, we all make them, seems to be a universal human flaw anymore I wish you luck in finding a good home for your bird if you truly feel you need to rehome it.

As for cats jumping abilities, it depends on the cat. Some of the leaner more muscular breeds can make some amazing jumps. With moggies it depends more on age and what shape the cat is in. For example, my younger cat can still make some 4-5 foot jumps but my other heavier two can't - especially my eldest. He occasionally can't even make it up on my bed (it's a tall bed), he'll misjudge and bounce off the side.

If you have an athletic acrobatic cat, then worry. If there is anything within 5-8 foot of where the cage hangs that could aid your cat, then again you need to worry. Almost all cats, even if they can't jump very high, can jump fairly far.
post #22 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
Proof that impulse purchases are usually bad ideas - but you knew that shortly after getting your bird. Oh well, we all make them, seems to be a universal human flaw anymore I wish you luck in finding a good home for your bird if you truly feel you need to rehome it.

As for cats jumping abilities, it depends on the cat. Some of the leaner more muscular breeds can make some amazing jumps. With moggies it depends more on age and what shape the cat is in. For example, my younger cat can still make some 4-5 foot jumps but my other heavier two can't - especially my eldest. He occasionally can't even make it up on my bed (it's a tall bed), he'll misjudge and bounce off the side.

If you have an athletic acrobatic cat, then worry.

I have a tabby who can jump on top of the couch and jump on to the bed but I have no clue if she will make it to 5'8" when she is a full grown cat.

She runs a some chasing ghost mice. How do I know if she is acrobatic?
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetykiss View Post
How do I know if she is acrobatic?
Have you seen her do some crazy jumps in the air after insects or after a wand toy like da bird? If not, you should see if she will jump after such toys, it's rather entertaining to watch.


Here's an extreme example of an very athletic and acrobatic breed http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=197693
post #24 of 26
Thread Starter 
Those sure are high jumps. Do Bengals jump that high? She sure got good shots with her camera.
post #25 of 26
Thread Starter 
I just rehomed the canary to a friend whom I know will take good care of him. She is very clean about her home and herself. It was a very hard decision to make but I don't want Avalon spending her cat life being interested in the little bird. She needs to be with us and play with us.

We also found out last night that Avalon can jump very high. She is only six months old and already she can jump over four feet in the air.
post #26 of 26
That's good news! And over four feet at 6 months old, she must have really been having fun playing (or really wanted whatever she was after).
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