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Dispelling the REAL myth

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../03/023144.php

Quote:
Earlier this month, the Heartland Institute sponsored the 2009 International Conference on Climate Change in New York. The Conference differed from most such events in that it was devoted to science, not politics or propaganda. Heartland has now made the materials presented at the conference available online, here. You can review the agenda, watch videos of the keynote presentations, read transcripts of some of the speeches, and see the Power Points that were presented by the speakers. More information will be posted as it becomes available.
post #2 of 23
It's a lobby group, and doesn't sound very reliable if it misrepresents scientists' views.
Heartland Institute
Quote:
Although Heartland calls itself "a genuinely independent source of research and commentary," its has been a frequent ally of, and funded by, the tobacco industry. According to a 1995 internal report by Philip Morris USA (PM) on its corporate contributions budget, the company uses its contributions "as a strategic tool to promote our overall business objectives and to advance our government affairs agenda," in particular by supporting "the work of free market 'think tanks' and other public policy groups whose philosophy is consistent with our point of view.
Quote:
Greenpeace's ExxonSecrets website lists Heartland as having received $676,500 (unadjusted for inflation) from ExxonMobil between 1998 and 2006.[35] (As mentioned above, Heartland insist that Exxon has not contributed to the group since 2006.)[27]

Contributions include:

* $30,000 in 1998;
* $115,000 in 2000;
* $90,000 in 2001;
* $15,000 in 2002;
* $85,000 for General Operating Support and $7,500 for their 19th Anniversary Benefit Dinner in 2003;
* $85,000 for General Operating Support and $15,000 for Climate Change Efforts in 2004; and
* $119,000 in 2005; and
* $115,000 in 2006.
The Heartland Institute
Quote:
In April 2008, environmental journalist Richard Littlemore wrote that the Heartland Institute's list of "500 Scientists with Documented Doubts of Man-Made Global Warming Scares"[10] included at least 45 scientists who neither knew of their inclusion as "coauthors" of the article, nor agreed with its claims regarding global warming. Dozens of the scientists asked the Heartland Institute to remove their names from the list; for instance, Gregory Cutter of Old Dominion University wrote, "I have NO doubts... the recent changes in global climate ARE man-induced. I insist that you immediately remove my name from this list since I did not give you permission to put it there." Dr. Robert Whittaker, Professor of Biogeography, University of Oxford wrote "Please remove my name. What you have done is totally unethical!" [11]

In response, the Heartland Institute refused to remove any names from the list, writing that "They [the scientists] have no right—legally or ethically—to demand that their names be removed from a bibliography."
post #3 of 23
I think we should ban all lobbyists. But until we do -- and we're not going to be able to because the Supreme Court has ruled it's a freedom of speech issue -- then Heartland gets to have their viewpoint heard, too.
post #4 of 23
Thread Starter 
I don't see how anyone can argue with climate trends and how anyone can think that they can change weather patterns, because they can't. We are in a cooling cycle right now but it is still "global warming"

I laughed when I heard that Al Gore was a naughty boy and did not turn off his lights the other night for the big, "turn off your lights to save energy" night. The dude is such a hypocrite. Only the peons like us are supposed to conserve, not Al Gore sitting up there is his energy hog ivory tower.
post #5 of 23
I've made the point before that it's "accelerated climate change" that's happening; we don't know for sure what the end result will be; but I'm afraid "global warming" is already the accepted nomenclature. Debating whether or not global warming is occurring is missing the point, IMO. What we should be debating is whether or not what we're putting into the air is changing the ecosystem to the detriment of our survival (and all other living things on the planet). Climate has always been changing and that change has always caused the loss of some species. Is what we're doing making it worse this time?? And what and when can something be done?
post #6 of 23
Here's the best web site I know that presents both sides equally.

http://climatedebatedaily.com/
post #7 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thank you mrblanche, I am saving that site.
post #8 of 23
By the way, much of North America has had a very cold winter, in many cases the coldest in 20 years.
post #9 of 23
I've been closely involved with and attuned to weather because of the several occupations I've been in, and my own personal impression is that during my lifetime weather has gotten more volatile, which goes right along with rapid climate change, and explains colder and snowier than normal alternating with hotter and drier than normal.
post #10 of 23
IMO there is no real "global warming". Over the years/centuries there have been climate shifts from warm to cold. Nothing we are doing is really affecting much of anything in the climate. We've had ice age in the past and it will happen again.

IMO its all a big lie from the governments around the world.
post #11 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
IMO there is no real "global warming". Over the years/centuries there have been climate shifts from warm to cold. Nothing we are doing is really affecting much of anything in the climate. We've had ice age in the past and it will happen again.

IMO its all a big lie from the governments around the world.
I agree. But there will be a multi-billion dollar empire created to try to fight the phony global warming and the taxpayers will fund it.
post #12 of 23
Sorry, ladies. I don't think it's phony. I just don't know if it's warming or the opposite. There are signs that it's warming; e.g. melting of polar ice in unprecedented amounts. But what's the effect of all that cold water being released, all that extra moisture going into the atmosphere? I'm reasonably convinced that something is happening, and it's happening at an alarmingly fast pace. Whether it's warming or cooling I don't know; whether it's man-caused I don't know; whether we can do anything about it I don't know. But I suggest we find out before it's too late. Maybe it already is.

And.....maybe we don't have to worry about it.
post #13 of 23
Thread Starter 
Let's spend trillions on it, just in case.
post #14 of 23
To quote myself from a thread about this time last year:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
I am not very well educated on the current debates surrounding global climate change.

But I do know I think everyone's focused on the wrong thing. To me, the issue isn't whether or not man has had an impact on the global climate: the question is to what degree. And whatever impact we have had over the past few decades is nothing compared to what we're going to have in future years. It's an issue of time and scale, and as time progresses, that scale increases.

In 1750 there were approximately 800,000 million people on the earth.
In 1850 there were approximately 1 billion people on earth.
In 1900 there were approximately 1.5 billion people on earth.
In 1997 there were approximately 6 billion people on earth.
In 2100 there will be approximately 10 billion people on earth.

Whatever impact we are having, within the past two decades that impact is dramatically changing.

World oil consumption has grown from 31,240 thousand barrels a day in 1965 to 83,719 barrels a day in 2006.

World natural gas consumption has grown from 63.4 billion cubic feet per day in 1965 to 275.8 billion cubic feet per day in 2006.

Coal consumption has grown from 1,481.8 million tonnes oil equivalent in 1965 to 3,090.1 million tonnes oil equivalent in 2006.

Factor in China: China by itself accounted for nearly 3/4 of all the growth in coal consumption in the world: the growth of coal-fired electricity generating capacity in 2006 was 25% (70% of steel production is done with coal generated electricity, and steel output rose by 20%).

So we're throwing a lot of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, and the rate at which we do so is going to continue to increase.

I'm not going to even bother to take the time to look up methane production by the millions of animals required to feed the world. We know that's increased exponentially along with the population.

Sidebar: the world's total annual use of commercial energy is approximately 400 quadrillion BTUs. For comparison, the sun pours in approximately 6 million quads of radiant energy into the earth's atmosphere each year.

But forget all that - the real problem is water. Global water withdrawal in 2000 is estimated to be 4,000 cubic km, about 30% of the world's accessible fresh water supply. Over pumping of ground water by the world's farmers already exceeds natural replinshment by more than 160 cubic km - 4% of total withdrawals (according to the World Water Indusry News). The WHO estimates that 1,000 cubic meters is the per capita annual amount of water deemed necessary to satisfy basic human needs; that in 1995 166 million people in 18 countries lived below that level and that by 2050 potable water availability is projected to fall below that level for 1.7 billion people in 39 countries.

So we're pulling amazing amounts of carbon out of the ground and throwing it into the atmosphere. That rate is increasing.

We're pulling amazing amounts of fresh water out of the ground and drinking it or letting it evaporate back into the atmosphere - or spending more carbon-based energy to clean it up and put it back in the ground.

And all the industrial processing and mining we do around the globe, the amount of wood we use and burn. I'm sorry. We're planting soft wood and harvesting hard wood.

Of course we're impacting our climate and our environment. And the greater our numbers, the greater our impact.

I doubt very much that the amount of carbon we've tossed into the atmosphere over the past two decades has changed the temperature or weather in any meaningful way - but I don't doubt that if we continue to pull resources out of the ground and put them in the air without cleaning them that we will have an impact. I don't need a scientist to tell me that.

Laurie
post #15 of 23
I agree with you about water. Unfortunately, it's proven to be a little early to make any decent money off that idea.
post #16 of 23
Thread Starter 
I could be on board with mandatory sterilization to get the world's population down.

I think that would do the most good for the planet.
post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
By the way, much of North America has had a very cold winter, in many cases the coldest in 20 years.
That's why 'global warming' is very much the wrong term to use.

The proper term is 'global climate change', but, as it implies, it means the scientists aren't sure just WHAT way it's changing.

It's changing, though.

There's no doubt about that.

'course, it changed a 'couple' times before man if I remember right....

Eh... We're all gonna die anyway.
post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
Sorry, ladies. I don't think it's phony. I just don't know if it's warming or the opposite. There are signs that it's warming; e.g. melting of polar ice in unprecedented amounts. But what's the effect of all that cold water being released, all that extra moisture going into the atmosphere? I'm reasonably convinced that something is happening, and it's happening at an alarmingly fast pace. Whether it's warming or cooling I don't know; whether it's man-caused I don't know; whether we can do anything about it I don't know. But I suggest we find out before it's too late. Maybe it already is.

And.....maybe we don't have to worry about it.
Oh, so VERY
post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
and my own personal impression is that during my lifetime weather has gotten more volatile, which goes right along with rapid climate change, and explains colder and snowier than normal alternating with hotter and drier than normal.
I've noticed a change in the climate in the nearly 50 years that I've been alive. Frankly, I don't care that this winter may have been colder than normal, the weather as a whole is completely freaky at times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
Sorry, ladies. I don't think it's phony. I just don't know if it's warming or the opposite. There are signs that it's warming; e.g. melting of polar ice in unprecedented amounts. But what's the effect of all that cold water being released, all that extra moisture going into the atmosphere? I'm reasonably convinced that something is happening, and it's happening at an alarmingly fast pace. Whether it's warming or cooling I don't know; whether it's man-caused I don't know; whether we can do anything about it I don't know. But I suggest we find out before it's too late. Maybe it already is.

And.....maybe we don't have to worry about it.
The cynic in me says that we'll worry a whole heck about it when the oceans rise enough to start overtaking major cities like New York, Miami, Los Angelos, etc. By then it is too late.

It all goes back to managing risk. If there is any chance that we are contributing to what is obviously happening to the climate, why chose to do nothing about it?

I have to ask. Is some of the denial based on the fact that Al Gore, a democrat, is so outspoken about it? Are political views biasing opinions?
post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momofmany View Post
Are political views biasing opinions?
Definitely and it's ridiculous.
post #21 of 23
Thread Starter 
I, for one, would be more apt to take Al Gore seriously if he actually walked the walk instead of just talking about it as he goes about his daily, energy hogging, routine.

We all need to decrease our energy consumption, all of us, not just us lowly peons.
post #22 of 23
Sounds like a good plan to me.
post #23 of 23
Climate is always changing, it's been doing it for eons. Slow changes, gradual changes, but changes all the same. And life on earth has always adapted. At least until recently. In more than a few nations, adaptation to climate has been all but stopped by humans ourselves. Artificial heat, artificial cooling, air purification, water purification, processed foods, refrigeration, etc. Many have become dependent on technology to make their habitats suitable. The technology depends on energy, energy depends on extracting and consuming natural resources and releasing their by-products.

The planet will eventually change more than our technology will be able to compensate for. After that, indigenous peoples of the world that lived in harmony with their environment (and therefore, have been adapting all along) may be the only ones adapted to survive.

The earth will take care of itself.
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