Grubs/nematodes ????

snake_lady

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Hey folks,

We take very good care of our lawn/landscaping..... last year we found that we were starting to get more grubs and bought a box of nematodes... never got around to using them though.

I was wondering if anyone here has ever used nematodes for grubs and what your experience was like???


Thanks.

(please don't waste your time mentioning pesticides....we don't use them at all.
We want to try nematodes and I'm just looking for experiences.)

I think we may hire someone to do it tho...because on the box it said the ground had to be this temp, no sun, etc. etc. which is why we never ended up doing it...never found the right day then forgot about it.
 

kiwideus

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What kind of nematodes are they? The term nematode describes a phylum of "worms" such as roundworm and so on.
 
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snake_lady

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Originally Posted by Kiwideus

What kind of nematodes are they? The term nematode describes a phylum of "worms" such as roundworm and so on.
oh ummmmmmmmmmm


Honestly I don't know what type they are. They are sold in farm stores and from what I can remember they are just listed as "benefical nematodes".

From a quick look online, nowhere specifies what kind they are.... most sites read like this: http://www.environmentalfactor.com/h...todefacts.html
 

lil maggie

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I looked it up and only found roundworm pages and couldn't figure it out. We have grubs too and I'll be looking in to nematodes!


Thanks for the link!
 

gailc

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Well.......

What you need to do is determine if you really have a problem or not- over 12 found in a square foot is considered problematic. You need to measure out a square foot and pull back the sod to see if you can find three (even better 6-10) in the top three inches. Of course that said this is not the time to do this!! However if you notice damage to your turf in late summer/early fall this may be due to skunks/raccoons looking for the grubs to eat.

As you may be aware the grubs are the larvae of beetles. The beetles my be Japanese beetles (do you have these?), June beetles. One can actually determine the specific beetle by examining the terminal segment (fancy name for butt!). Different beetles have different life cycles so knowing the species would be great for treatment.
Grubs are chewers and do damage by eating the turfgrass roots.

You would nit use a pesticide but an insecticide in July/August for the best effectiveness. But it the grubs may be resistant to the insecticide.

If you would like the best results you have to do a bit of detective work. A cook wet spring delays hatching whereas a warm spring advances the hatch. In a dry summer the eggs myay not hatch at all. Water a area of lawn where you would like to do the testing for best count of the grubs.

I know that you would like to use nematodes vs insecticides. They can be very effective if used according to package directions. But can be also a costly measure if you have a large area of turf to treat. Keeping your turf properly watered and having a vigorous root system will also prevent grubs from making an impact on your turf.

If you can, In Ontario province there is the University of Guelph? They may have literature you can use. Also Cornell University in New York has an excellent website for turf info (they have a former UW-Madison turf professor).

Otherwise I can probably track down more info if you need it!
 
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snake_lady

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Originally Posted by GailC

Well.......

What you need to do is determine if you really have a problem or not- over 12 found in a square foot is considered problematic. You need to measure out a square foot and pull back the sod to see if you can find three (even better 6-10) in the top three inches. Of course that said this is not the time to do this!! However if you notice damage to your turf in late summer/early fall this may be due to skunks/raccoons looking for the grubs to eat.

As you may be aware the grubs are the larvae of beetles. The beetles my be Japanese beetles (do you have these?), June beetles. One can actually determine the specific beetle by examining the terminal segment (fancy name for butt!). Different beetles have different life cycles so knowing the species would be great for treatment.
Grubs are chewers and do damage by eating the turfgrass roots.

You would nit use a pesticide but an insecticide in July/August for the best effectiveness. But it the grubs may be resistant to the insecticide.

If you would like the best results you have to do a bit of detective work. A cook wet spring delays hatching whereas a warm spring advances the hatch. In a dry summer the eggs myay not hatch at all. Water a area of lawn where you would like to do the testing for best count of the grubs.

I know that you would like to use nematodes vs insecticides. They can be very effective if used according to package directions. But can be also a costly measure if you have a large area of turf to treat. Keeping your turf properly watered and having a vigorous root system will also prevent grubs from making an impact on your turf.

If you can, In Ontario province there is the University of Guelph? They may have literature you can use. Also Cornell University in New York has an excellent website for turf info (they have a former UW-Madison turf professor).

Otherwise I can probably track down more info if you need it!
Hi Gail, I was hoping you'd respond.


Yes, we've already done the investigating.... last year we were digging our backyard to do our deck and pour a concrete pad for the shed, so I uprooted a bunch of sod.... In that specific area I was getting 15 sq/ft in some spots, 10 in others. So I'm pretty certain they are starting to be problematic.

We do have an abundance of "June Bugs" for about a week. They are awful.... inside it literally sounds like a heavy rain as they ping off the upstairs window


We have a 40ft wide by bout 40-50ft to treat. We did our own sprinkler system, on timer as our soil is pretty sandy.... only a few inches of topsoil
(don't get me started on that one).

We do have the odd skunk, but our main problem based on the 2 neighbouring lawns was a mole (moles)..... omg the damage it did to their lawns over the winter is awful...... I can say 100% it was a mole (assumably digging for grubs) that tunneled through their yards. Our yard didn't get much damage but I blame that on the fact that we have a dog, whereas our 2 neighbours do not. The mole did some work in my veg garden, and a little bit of damage in the very back where my dog can't reach (she is on a clothesline type of run and can only go so far). The reason I know for sure what it was is that a few days ago my neighbour came and got us because she saw something in the yard, thought it was a mouse/rat or something (she's scared of vermin) so we went out and investigated.... it was this mole thing on its last legs... Today when cleaning the yard, we found its body.

Based on the damage to their lawns, the moles were finding alot of food.

The way I read the box is that you need to do 2 treatments of nematodes to solve the prob. One at the beginning of the season and one at the end of the season.... we bought a box for the beginning and could never catch a day that it wasn't sunny and the right temp.

My main reasons for not wanting to use an insecticide are: my snakes. I take my snakes into my yard, and that could kill them.... children, its a chemical, etc.

I like a good looking lawn/gardens/landscape so we're more than willing to invest some money into getting rid of the grubs, IF the nematodes work well that is. I don't know anyone personally who has used them....

Yes we do have the Guelph University, its ummm couple hours away from me. Definately any additional info you could give me would be appreciated. I'm doing my own investigating as well.....I guess ultimately, I want to find out if there's a good chance the nematodes would work, if we'd have to do that every year, etc. and then I'll start calling places. I have had a couple lawncare flyers delivered and they've stated they do have the nematodes but no mention of cost.
 

catmom2wires

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We used them several years back. They work, but you must keep the treated areas moist.

Cally
 
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snake_lady

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In addition, I wanted to mention that for the amount of grubs I found (the area I pulled up was 8 x 12) there's been very little damage to the lawn...

Here's a pic of part of the lawn which doesn't show much damage at all...

pic taken May 23 2008


another pic taken after we finished the deck and got some landscaping done



I know, its not showing alot of the lawn, and that is not the area I sampled.... but for the amount of grubs I found I would have expected more damaged areas...

The reason we were going to do the nematodes was NOT due to damage, but due to the amount I was finding when digging the sod up.

Aside from where the dog pees, the yard is pretty healthy come May. (we do fertilize 2x yr + water regular... in this area if you don't water, you have a dried brown lawn)
 

gailc

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I have sandy soil as well and have grubs in certain spots in our turn. Howver having over 5 acres-treatment is not an option!!

I do seem to notice that they are cyclical in nature!

I have an open house to attend in a couple of weeks at the business I buy my fertilizer/lawn food at. I'll pose the grub question to the mgr and try to remember the snakes too!!

You might want to look into milky spore as a preventative!
 
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snake_lady

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Originally Posted by CatMom2Wires

We used them several years back. They work, but you must keep the treated areas moist.

Cally
No probs with keeping it moist.

Originally Posted by GailC

I have sandy soil as well and have grubs in certain spots in our turn. Howver having over 5 acres-treatment is not an option!!

I do seem to notice that they are cyclical in nature!

I have an open house to attend in a couple of weeks at the business I buy my fertilizer/lawn food at. I'll pose the grub question to the mgr and try to remember the snakes too!!

You might want to look into milky spore as a preventative!
I've never heard of milky spore.... I will have to look into that

If you do remember to ask, please do. Thank you
 

kittieshasme

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Hi! Milky spore only works if the grubs are Japanese beetle larvae, by the way.

I used beneficial nematodes for several years. They worked very well for grub control and as an added benefit got rid of the fleas in the yard. I applied them when the temperature was close to the recommended temp. say within five degrees. Water the lawn first, since they prefer moist conditions.

Hope that helps.
 
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snake_lady

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Originally Posted by KittiesHasMe

Hi! Milky spore only works if the grubs are Japanese beetle larvae, by the way.

I used beneficial nematodes for several years. They worked very well for grub control and as an added benefit got rid of the fleas in the yard. I applied them when the temperature was close to the recommended temp. say within five degrees. Water the lawn first, since they prefer moist conditions.

Hope that helps.
Thanks


If you don't mind, a few questions....

I'm assuming you did them yourself.

How much lawn did you have to do? Roughly how much $ did it come to?

I know price varies, have no idea where you're from, but I'm just looking for ballpark price..... I believe the box we bought $35 and I'm not sure if it was enough to do our whole yard...

I don't think we have Japanese beetles.... just June bugs... so I guess the milky spore wouldn't help.

thx.
 

kittieshasme

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I'm in central Oklahoma. I sprayed the lawn every summer for three years. My lawn is around 3,000 sq. feet so it cost about $60.00 per spraying, but this was years ago and the price of the nematodes has really gone up since then. Your box should have the sq. foot coverage on the label. I did have good residual control for several more years. I'm at the point now where I need to reapply.

I got my neighbors on each side of me to also spray and that gave me a buffer area around most of my yard.

It is more expensive than chemical control but is safe for earth worms, pets, toads, birds, etc. You can't over apply and there is no runoff to threaten waterways, or wetlands. It shouldn't harm your snakes, either. I thought the benefits were worth it in the long run.
 

carolina

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Chris - Why don't you try Diatomaceous Earth?? I know it does work for grubs... They are safe for the pets and kids - I am assuming they would be safe for the snakes too, but you would need to investigate that.
 

kittieshasme

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Since grubs live in the soil and DE is applied above ground I'm pretty sure it won't work for grub control. Also, I've seen DE recommended as an organic snake repellant for yards and gardens. So this is probably not the best choice in this case.

It works great on above ground pests like fleas, cutworms,cabbage worms, slugs, etc.
 

carolina

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Originally Posted by KittiesHasMe

Since grubs live in the soil and DE is applied above ground I'm pretty sure it won't work for grub control. Also, I've seen DE recommended as an organic snake repellant for yards and gardens. So this is probably not the best choice in this case.

It works great on above ground pests like fleas, cutworms,cabbage worms, slugs, etc.
It's actually indicated as one of the best treatments available for grubs... The only thing I don't know is the snakes...
 

kittieshasme

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How do you get the DE down into the ground where the grubs are? Beside tilling which would destroy the lawn?

I'm speaking as a horticulturist with a B.S. degree; majored in Ornamental Horticulture and over thirty years experience. I'm always open to learn new things, but I can't see how a dust that works only by contact will work if it can't be applied to the pest, i.e. grubs living under ground.
 
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snake_lady

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Originally Posted by KittiesHasMe

I'm in central Oklahoma. I sprayed the lawn every summer for three years. My lawn is around 3,000 sq. feet so it cost about $60.00 per spraying, but this was years ago and the price of the nematodes has really gone up since then. Your box should have the sq. foot coverage on the label. I did have good residual control for several more years. I'm at the point now where I need to reapply.
Thanks


I don't have the box anymore, that was last year, and they had an expiry date on em.

I don't find $60-75 too much......especially if it seems to last a few years.

My snakes are my main concern.... they aren't wild snakes, they are born in capitivity, raised in captivity, and would not be able to tolerate any type of "-cides" at all.... My dog also eats the grass, etc.

Carolina, I don't know anything bout the DE, but I'm confused at how it would work for grubs too.... gonna have to do some research on that one too.
 

strange_wings

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^I really don't have anything to add - but I can't believe you have Junebugs out already! We currently have snow on the ground.


I couldn't spray or treat our yard with anything, ever. Because I keep my turtles outside I need all of those insects in my yard. They specifically love grubs. There's also the not so minor fact that I can't be around chemicals.


KittiesHasMe - Where do you find DE? I'm currently having problems with some ants and while DH was able to spray and bait their nest outside, they're still coming in. Asking for DE around here gets us looked at like we've suddenly grown two or three heads
and lead to an aisle full of chemicals. I'd prefer to use bait and DE as that won't put anything harmful in the air to make me sick. (and of course DE inside)
 
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snake_lady

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

^I really don't have anything to add - but I can't believe you have Junebugs out already! We currently have snow on the ground.
No no......no grubs yet..... just getting prepared


I don't mind most bugs, but I absolutely HATE June bugs. Especially when the get caught in my hair.
 
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