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American Flags flies on TOP - Page 3

post #61 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
SARCASTIC?!?!?!? Please look back on my posts in which I've said anything about Canadians. I've always said favorable things about Canadians and Canada because I've travelled there quite a bit and always enjoyed Canada and Canadians. I'm really disappointed, Linda. I think you're getting your threads intermingled.

When I've discussed this WITH CANADIANS IN CANADA almost universally the remarks have been something along the lines of "we're not the great melting pot"
I'd agree with those other Canadians - we are more multi-cultural than a "melting pot".

As for the sarcasm remark, I must admit I had trouble understanding the first bit of your post so I may well have misunderstood your meaning.
post #62 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneBugBear07 View Post
^Thank You!! I tend to have very strong opinions and often people will yell at me and call me stupid
I agree with the poster that said if someone yells at you and calls you stupid, you don't need that person in your life. Dump them fast.

I don't think your opinions are overly strong. You are proud of your country and being an American. That's how it should be - if not, they should not be in that country. Yes, there are times we are not proud of what our governments or certain individuals may do, but overall we should be happy to be in a country that we can be proud of and enjoy the quality of life that we do.

I'm proud to be Canadian. We have some things that are not as good as the US and we have things that are better IMO. But I can't imagine living anywhere else but right here in Canada.
post #63 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneBugBear07 View Post
OY...ok so please dont yell at me because i have some very strong opinions!....

I see stuff like that all the time in Fresno....we are like almost 50% mexican. What makes me mad is the lack of respect of our country as a whole. It is sad that for instance it took a tragedy like 9/11 to bring us all togther and sail our flags, even tho most people did not know the meaning of that flag. The American flag is a beautiful piece of our country's history, like someone said the "Star Spangeled Banner" was about a man aboard a ship who say the gun blasts, and firing of a battle and when it cleared up the American flag still stood.. Everytime i think of this, my heart drops and i feel love for my country even tho we are in the craps right now. It is the people in America who need some adjustment.... When you go to ANY country, you need to respect that country, while respecting your own. What that store owner did could have been a mistake, but for some reason i dont feel like it was...The vet, good for him to DO something about it, instead of standing there bi**ing about it like everone else was doing. I cant stand people who witness something happen and think "oh that isnt my problem".....oh it boils my blood!! BUT i will say yes he should have respected the other flag etc, but the man was clearly upset and when you are in that state, one does not think rationally,and i am sorry that he acted that way. But i can see where he was coming from, he fought for his country, watched his fellow soldiers die, all for this store to put their country above ours??? But you are right two wrongs never make a right. I think it probably made the situation worse...

It is not about the flag as a piece of fabric, it is what that flag holds,it holds all the love, pride, tears, blood, and life of this country and if you cant see that in your own country, then that is kind of sad. It is very sad seeing people today using our flag in bad ways . I remember when i was in high school (this was a few years ago lol) there were a lot of protesting done about the illegal aliens (i dont like that term....) in California and all. Students were parading around in mexican flags (most were told to be taken off because you cant have any flags on your backpacks etc...) and even were skipping school to "pretend protest" they only did this becasue they didnt want to go to school, they had no pride for Mexico or for America, they waved the flag of Mexico when they dont realize that what they have here in America is like heaven compared to mexico, and i feel that instead of supporting the country that these people are trying to leave, they should show support to the country they want to be in, because it shows you want to be here, it was just really sad to see. I have no idea if what i am saying makes sense lol cause i tend to just type as i think and sometimes it doesnt come out right. I just feel that you shouldnt live somewhere that you dont support and dont like

Anywho God Bless America! And God Bless Our Troops!
God bless you, too Junebug. Great post!
post #64 of 84
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I think learning this puts this in a new and more serious light for me. To be specific: I don't think it was ignorance or a mistake why the Mexican flag was being flown above the US flag
I will have to read these links. Yes, there ARE some Mexicans that want to retake parts of the SW as their own, I am hoping it is just a fringe movement.
post #65 of 84
I don't think the US was ever a melting pot. If it had been, we wouldn't have Chinatowns and Little Italies in NYC and Boston. Melting pot suggests that the different chunks disappear and become unrecognizable, losing their identity. I think the US has always been more of a stew,and I don't see anything wrong with that. It's possible to hold on to culture and traditions from a country of origin and be an American. Certainly many generations have done so.
post #66 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
I think the US has always been more of a stew,and I don't see anything wrong with that. It's possible to hold on to culture and traditions from a country of origin and be an American. Certainly many generations have done so.
A delicious stew. I don't want the foods from other cultures to assimilate.
post #67 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
I don't think the US was ever a melting pot. If it had been, we wouldn't have Chinatowns and Little Italies in NYC and Boston. Melting pot suggests that the different chunks disappear and become unrecognizable, losing their identity. I think the US has always been more of a stew,and I don't see anything wrong with that. It's possible to hold on to culture and traditions from a country of origin and be an American. Certainly many generations have done so.
Well said! I couldn't agree more.
post #68 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Nova View Post
A delicious stew. I don't want the foods from other cultures to assimilate.
My favorite thing about America is all teh different foods!! Here where i live, you can eat mediterranean (sp?) food, asian (japanese or chinese), Thai, Hmong food, Itallian, Mexican/spanish food---they are wayyy different!! Indian food, anything and everything!!! I love it! I hope when i go to England that i will have a variety of food especially chinese, i cant live without my chinese food!!! :::Sorry I got a little off topic, but i am a food-a-holic!:::
post #69 of 84
I think there's a misconception about assimilation and the "melting pot." Being assimilated doesn't mean you turn your back on your heritage and become just the same as everyone else. It does mean that you fit in with everyone else. That you become an American. Not an Italian-American, not a Chinese-American. You don't segregate yourself away in some Little Italy or Chinatown where you only speak Italian or Chinese. Getting ahead in America means getting out of the ethnic ghettoes and into the mainstream. You can honor your heritage by observing whatever customs and traditions (and cuisine!!) that don't conflict with the greater society. But keeping to yourself, not learning the national language, and practicing customs that are illegal or in conflict with your neighbors is not assimilating. Look at the problems in Europe with the many immigrants from the Middle East who not only keep themselves separate but also want their own legal system. Look at the problems in our own Southwest with the Hispanics that want their own country. Assimilation and diversity can coexist; you can be absorbed into the stew in the pot and still be different; you just don't want to be so different that you're no longer an American.
post #70 of 84
Oh understand what you mean and I agree that we shouldnt associate ourselves as Mexican-American, etc... that either you are American or you arent. BUT I dont want to see people completely changing who htey are and where they came from...cause their food is delicious! and we can all learn something from other cultures. But I agree about the language thing, i htink it is rediculous that students who do not speak english can get out of certain testing etc.. where i am from. And almost every type of sign you see here has an english and spanish description. I was just saying that i love all the different foods, because well really there isnt really any kind of American food...there is however Americanized food haha. But here in Cali, supposedly in like 5-10 years we will be over 50% mexican sooo it will be very very hard to make everyone learn english.
post #71 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneBugBear07 View Post
But here in Cali, supposedly in like 5-10 years we will be over 50% mexican sooo it will be very very hard to make everyone learn english.
See, that sort of illustrates the problem. Instead of saying "we will be over 50% Spanish-speaking" you said "we will be over 50% Mexican."
post #72 of 84
^sorry thats not actually what i meant. I jsut re-read that and i dont want anyone thinking i meant something else! But that number was something I heard on the news awhile back, back when they were talking more about the immigration issue, altho i doubt anyone wants to come here now. I meant to address that our state has so many ways for people who do not speak english whether they be hmong or german or mexican can get away with not ever learning to speak english. Like I think we have tests for those who do not speak english in whatever language they speak (Like we have the CASEE sp? exams in high school where you dont pass them you dont graduate), but i am not too sure cause i have been out of high school for a few years and things may have changed. Almost any workplace i have been at has someone who speaks another language to interpret etc. BUT I am a bit mixed on this issue because i feel like who are we to tell a person "hey you need to learn OUR language" sounds kinda mean... so i am kinda on the fence in a way. Sorry again for going off topic!!

But about the main topic...im kinda wondering what those store owners did after that tape, did they just put back up new flags? Cause i actually never thought too much about how the US flag should be above all others, all though in a way its i guess common sense?
post #73 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneBugBear07 View Post
^sorry thats not actually what i meant.
Yes I understand, but you see how it's already in the language? I catch myself doing it, too.

And about the language, I don't think it's mean at all. If they become a citizen, then English is THEIR language just as much as it is mine.
post #74 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
Look at the problems in Europe with the many immigrants from the Middle East who not only keep themselves separate but also want their own legal system. Look at the problems in our own Southwest with the Hispanics that want their own country. Assimilation and diversity can coexist; you can be absorbed into the stew in the pot and still be different; you just don't want to be so different that you're no longer an American.
With all due respect, I don't think the comparison to the problems of middle easterners in Europe is valid. Germany invited Turkish guest workers to perform work that there simply were not enough Germans to perform many years ago. It was clear from the outset that they would not be offered citizenship. Also Germany like most European countries does not grant the option of citizenship to someone just because they were born there. The result was that a generation of young outsiders was created when these Turkish guest workers had children. By law they are Turkish citizens, but some had never even been to Turkey let alone want to go live there.

In the US if you come here legally, you have the option of becoming an American and I think that makes all the difference.
post #75 of 84
It's always important to get the whole story so one isn't comparing apples to oranges.
post #76 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
In the US if you come here legally, you have the option of becoming an American and I think that makes all the difference.
Yes, but that's a big if these days. There's an awful lot of people here illegally. On the whole they're not wanted here, much the same as the "guest workers" who didn't leave when the work was over. I don't think the comparison is all that far off.

Like you say, becoming an American makes all the difference.
post #77 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
It's always important to get the whole story so one isn't comparing apples to oranges.
Oh, for heaven's sake, comparing apples to oranges comprises about 95% of what gets posted here.

It's left up to the readers to sample and figure out which is apple juice and which is orange juice.
post #78 of 84
I'm wondering if my point got lost so I'll put it a little differently.

If someone enters a foreign country legally and at the same time is aware that it makes no difference whether they learn the language and culture or not, they have no chance at citizenship, I'm inclined to be understanding when they form cultural and linguistic enclaves.

The US has had a tradition of accepting people from foreign countries, and many Americans speak with the accents of their home country. That doesn't mean it's easy and each wave of immigrants has faced discrimination. But eventually they've become assimilated, at least those who wanted to.

In Germany? Forget it. It doesn't matter how well you speak the language, if there is so much of a trace of an accent, you get called out on it daily. And wherever you are from, well be prepared to face whatever stereotypes they have and that are propgrated by their media. It's one of the reasons I left after having been there for 16 years and reached a high point in my career. It became clear to me that despite what I had achieved, I was never going to be one of them.

Now as to anyone who is in the US illegally, I can see why they feel unwanted. I don't want them either. I have this thing about the law.
post #79 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
I'm wondering if my point got lost so I'll put it a little differently.

If someone enters a foreign country legally and at the same time is aware that it makes no difference whether they learn the language and culture or not, they have no chance at citizenship, I'm inclined to be understanding when they form cultural and linguistic enclaves.

The US has had a tradition of accepting people from foreign countries, and many Americans speak with the accents of their home country. That doesn't mean it's easy and each wave of immigrants has faced discrimination. But eventually they've become assimilated, at least those who wanted to.

In Germany? Forget it. It doesn't matter how well you speak the language, if there is so much of a trace of an accent, you get called out on it daily. And wherever you are from, well be prepared to face whatever stereotypes they have and that are propgrated by their media. It's one of the reasons I left after having been there for 16 years and reached a high point in my career. It became clear to me that despite what I had achieved, I was never going to be one of them.

Now as to anyone who is in the US illegally, I can see why they feel unwanted. I don't want them either. I have this thing about the law.
Your point didn't get lost on me but I'm just one person here on IMO.
post #80 of 84
2dogmom, thanks for elaborating, your point DID get lost on me but as you know these days I'm flitting about more than half a dozen different forums pushing my health care plan, plus mod and admin duties, and some of these other topics get short shrift. I see what you're saying, now.
post #81 of 84
Thread Starter 
I didn't realize Germany is like that. I wonder why. Any ideas why ,2dogmom?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
I'm wondering if my point got lost so I'll put it a little differently.

If someone enters a foreign country legally and at the same time is aware that it makes no difference whether they learn the language and culture or not, they have no chance at citizenship, I'm inclined to be understanding when they form cultural and linguistic enclaves.

The US has had a tradition of accepting people from foreign countries, and many Americans speak with the accents of their home country. That doesn't mean it's easy and each wave of immigrants has faced discrimination. But eventually they've become assimilated, at least those who wanted to.

In Germany? Forget it. It doesn't matter how well you speak the language, if there is so much of a trace of an accent, you get called out on it daily. And wherever you are from, well be prepared to face whatever stereotypes they have and that are propgrated by their media. It's one of the reasons I left after having been there for 16 years and reached a high point in my career. It became clear to me that despite what I had achieved, I was never going to be one of them.

Now as to anyone who is in the US illegally, I can see why they feel unwanted. I don't want them either. I have this thing about the law.
post #82 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I didn't realize Germany is like that. I wonder why. Any ideas why ,2dogmom?
It was way behind the times, or in denial, but immigration and naturalization laws have been changed since she lived in Germany. These articles don't give all the details or most recent changes, but at least they're in English.
Germany: Naturalization

Quote:
The new law's effects will not be apparent for 23 more years. About 100,000 babies are born to foreign parents in Germany each year, and under the new law they are considered both German citizens and citizens of the country of their parents until age 23; if they do not reject their parents' citizenship by age 23, they lose the German citizenship.

The new law shortens the time an adult must have lived legally in Germany from 15 to eight years before applying for naturalization.
First German Immigration Law Takes Effect

Quote:
After much wrangling with the opposition, the German government drew up an immigration law to regulate migration last year. From Jan. 1, 2005, things have changed for foreigners.


The catalyst for Germany's first immigration law was the realization that the country's graying population and declining birth rate will one day threaten to overwhelm social security systems and disrupt the economy if young people didn't immigrate to the country.
post #83 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I didn't realize Germany is like that. I wonder why. Any ideas why ,2dogmom?
Honestly I was under the impression that the US was the exception worldwide in granting the right of citizenship to someon who born within the borders. I could be off on this but it is my understanding that most countries go by the citizenship fo the parents.

jcat thanks for those links. I'm not surprised that the German government is revising the laws but I'm jaded enough to say that if they were not worried about "dying out" because of the low birthrate they would have left things the way they were.

Sorry for hijacking the thread by the way!
post #84 of 84
Thread Starter 
I know, from personal experience, that laws don't change people's views.
Time and experience and self examination does though.

The laws being changed are a big step in the right direction though.
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