Heavy weight mixed martial arts champion too rough with new rescue.

ive read up a few threads here,but i think exact info would be needed from me to get the correct help.
both cats are rescues.
1st cat is salem a 5 year old manx ive had for 4 years who is about 25 pounds and solid muscle.salem likes to play rough and is a very peculier cat.

2nd is Kass 7 month old skinny and was under weight with a small build.she is a lap cat and lovable.

i did the introduction thing,but that didnt last 2 days before i had to take Kass in to the vet for a large knot on her hind quarter that was hurting her,the vet said it was from a cat bite.

when together they chase and run and have fun,wich is great.but then they wanna wrestle and salem just pounds her into the carpet and she screams for help.
its not fighting im almost sure as no hissing or growling is going on.
salem has always played hard and rough,with biting and scratching in a playfull way wich we put up with and may have even encouraged it when he was an only cat.

now ive kept them seperated at all times,but i find it unfair and not good to keep one or the other in a single room for 8 hours each day.

so my main questions and issues are i need help to stop the such rough play and not getting the young small kitten hurt even tho its just play.

im pretty sure im not over reacting,but i dont know how to fix this.

Wow, that cant be easy! I always wondered if my single 10lb nine month kitten would be too rough for newcomer as well. I figured after a couple months of natural balance soft food the other cat would be equal in size!

bad thing is Salem has gained an easy 5 more lbs since the new addition and an extra food bowl being out when i swap who is put in the seperation room.
im gonna have to switch him to a weight formula and have his bowl follow him around so its all he gets.

it just hurts me to see such a sweet little girl get put on her back constantly and get mauled while playing and get hurt,i honestly feel salem isnt trying to hurt her,just play.but he doesnt know how to play well and easy,he never has.so i dont know how to change his "bad/hard play" issues.

its my fault really as i always loved getting him to roll on his back and wrestle and such as i try and keep his nails trimmed and he didnt bite me too hard.
but now its an issue,and one i contributed too.

its only gonna get worse imo with keeping them seperated now for a month.
and they wanna get together trust me,they try and out dodge me to just get 30 seconds together. but 5 minutes in shes getting mauled.

Kass couldnt have weighed more than 2-3 pounds when we brought her home,all skin and bones and NO muscle mass.i held her in one hand pretty much and her age is estimated at 7-13 months old so shes considered an adult.i dont look for her to get much bigger except gain weight and muscle.id say shes at 5 pounds now.

I can understand your concern. I had one that I bottle fed that was a rough guy when playing. I used a screen door to separate mine. That way they can see and smell just not touch. I let them together for brief supervised visits then extended the supervised time together as long as there was no rough play.

You can also use two baby gates in the door way stacked on top of each other. The screen door I used cost $20 at the home improvement store and required four screws to hold it in the door frame. A hook latch kept it closed. The holes are easily patched after taking it down.

Have you tried holding Kass and walking around with her during supervised visits?

Other thoughts would be to try a Feliway plug in and Rescue Remedy.

I don't know, but keeping them totally apart without being able to see each other or play through a baby gate may make them all the more "excited" to get to each other. Others will have more ideas. I am sure you will find something that will help. Hang in there.

Originally Posted by Skimble

I can understand your concern. I had one that I bottle fed that was a rough guy when playing. I used a screen door to separate mine. That way they can see and smell just not touch. I let them together for brief supervised visits then extended the supervised time together as long as there was no rough play.

You can also use two baby gates in the door way stacked on top of each other. The screen door I used cost $20 at the home improvement store and required four screws to hold it in the door frame. A hook latch kept it closed. The holes are easily patched after taking it down.

Have you tried holding Kass and walking around with her during supervised visits?

Other thoughts would be to try a Feliway plug in and Rescue Remedy.

I don't know, but keeping them totally apart without being able to see each other or play through a baby gate may make them all the more "excited" to get to each other. Others will have more ideas. I am sure you will find something that will help. Hang in there.

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thank you and anyone who has any advice,i just want a happy home where we all get along and play well together

and your right they are getting very excited to just play,when i enter my bedroom wich is the isolation room,1 runs in and 1 runs out wich can make the swap easy.they just wanna play so bad.
i think i will try and do some supervised visits in my room as its the only room i can contain them in,its a small house and an open living room.

i did read up on Feliway and that may be a last resort,ive spent so much on vet bills latley money is tight.both are in good health now and vet checked so i know its not a physical issue.hopefully this can be solved with time and patience,as i have alot of time and im working on the patience.

another question tho is i plan on keeping Kass in my room at night so we dont have all night antics,plus i like her cuddled up with me.but i think that may be a bad idea once i get them to a point where they get along.wouldnt that induce more excitement in the mornings where they get too rowdy?

if its any help Salem is leash trained,so possibly keep him on a leash while supervised?

I wouldn't keep them totally separated. I'd let them have supervised play. It will make your job of teaching them appropriate boundaries easier if you don't have to start over from the beginning.

It sounds like you've got a great relationship with Salem and I really believe that's half the battle. When he plays rough you're going to have to intervene (no doubt you are but that's just the first step so I felt obliged to include it! ) Stop the fight and just pet him and talk to him. That will encourage him to be calm around your new kitty. It will take some time but you can do it. My husband's cat, though not nearly as large, is a big cat and liked to play fight with my two when we got married. That was six years ago and everyone gets on great now. He can still whip them in a fight but he understands that they don't want to play like that. Now he does rough house with our most recent addition Seti but Seti provokes it and Hemmy (my husband's cat) knows how rough is too rough so we don't have any bite or scratch wounds.

We didn't have the big size differences between our Billy and our other kitties, but he was 1 1/2 or 1 3/4 years old when we rescued him, and it was directly from outside, not a shelter. He's probably only 10 - 11 pounds, but our most playful kitty is just 7 pounds, and he just played too rough.

It's taken five months, but he doesn't beat her down until she's howling anymore. In your case, I like the separation with supervised play time because she has been getting hurt. We didn't have that option as we live in a 40' RV with (now) seven cats.

We kept an empty can with coins in it around to shake when he got too rough - it startles them out of the situation (usually) if shaken REALLY loudly and close to them - and prevents any people from getting hurt. We'd just say "Billy, NO", pick up Flowerbelle and love on her, put her up on the shelf and give her a couple of treats. He didn't get any.

So when he was too rough, he lost his playmate and got no treats.

But we also rewarded the positive. When he played "nice," when it had been a few minutes and he hadn't had the chance to get too rough, we'd tell him WHAT a GOOD boy he was, and give them both treats.

Cats are very much like children that way - they need to understand what you want from them, you just have to figure out how to communicate it - both the NO - but as important, the YES.

Also - do you have much vertical space in your place? The way we survive in our RV with seven is by having TONS of vertical space. We took out the dining area and put in cat trees. We let him have a lot of the overhead cabinets, with ways to access them. They have lots of "under" spaces (under the bed, under the couch) - and lots of ways to travel around (unbolted the couch and pulled it out from next to the wall to create more "creeping around" space. Obviously in a normal house or apartment none of this is really an issue - but sometimes providing vertical space can help - it'll either give her a way to escape "up" if she wants away from him, or it will give him a place to hang out that is "up" - which often reduces that "alpha" need to dominate her, which may be part of his rough-house play.

If you're handy, creative stuff in a house or apartment can be done inexpensively. If we ever own a house, I so want to do this kind of stuff: http://www.katwallks.com/ They're selling pre-made stuff, but none of it looks too difficult to make on one's own!

Laurie

those cat walks are kool,i never seen anything like that before.
im pretty handy and could make it close if i get time,but convincing my folks to do that in thier house may be tough! lol they love my cats as much as i do tho.
we do have a cat tree Kass and get in to get away,but its Salems originally but he isnt too territorial.
ill also try the bag of coins to startle em enough to stop rough play,oddly enough Salem is very darn obediant for a cat.i still think hes half dog somehow.
Kass doesnt listen well yet,but shes not the one who needs too so much in this issue.
tommorow ill start with salem on a leash and let him play with kass,this way i can control him better if needed.
then ill move to both of them in 1 room with me a while and keep extending the time until i feel comfy noone will get hurt anymore.
Salem is very intellegent so i feel he will learn fast,i just needed to learn first how to teach him tho.

thank you everyone for all the help.

im rather disheartened now,after a short play time.
it lasted about 10 minutes in wich we played with streamers and stuff on poles and noone got worked up with that.
i did have salem on a leash so i could control him better,wich worked well actually.but after the playing i let them just roll in the floor and play easy with each other.Salem many times went for the throat,and wich i pulled him back and stopped him.
i will say he wasnt growling or hissing,but he was intent on hitting her with everything he had.so i stopped and went to put him up,of course he hissed and growled all the way up the stairs in my arms.by the time i hit the bedroom wich i seperate them in he was swinging away in hopes of clawing me.and thats not like him.
Feliway is looking like a better option at this point,or mabey im giving up too soon.

Maybe remove him the first time he goes for her throat or trys to hit her "with everything" he's got?

Or even try a shorter period of time. If they're playing nice with each other for like a minute, interrupt it with treats. As soon as he goes for her throat or waps her really hard, separate him from her then. I think this will reinforce the gentle play and reinforce that he gets removed from his pal and gets ignored when he's too aggressive.

Laurie