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Infanticide video said inciting hate

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
A video made with the help of U.S. missionaries and depicting Amazon Indians burying children alive is "faked" and inciting racial hatred, a group campaigning for tribal rights said Thursday.
Quote:
Enock Freire, one of the makers of the film, said Youth With a Mission helped in the production of the film, which he acknowledged was fictional and aimed at drawing attention to what he said was a serious problem.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090320/od_nm/us_indians

A missionary group aiding in the making of a fictional "documentary" that promotes an agenda of hatred. Imagine that.
post #2 of 22
This pisses me off - I wish that these missionaries just kept themselves away from Brasil in general, period. I have no clue why they think that they have the right to go there in the first place, with the idea that they are better than the indians. When most of the indigenas tribes have been extinct around the world, LEAVE the surviving ones alone! They have the right to their beliefs and culture, and it's nobody else's business, but their own. They live away from the cities, and bother nobody. They certainly don't bother us Brasilians; on the contrary - we know to protect them.
IMO these guys should be deported and never be allowed in the country again.
post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
I find it very, very strange that they claim it's a "serious problem"...yet they are unable to present any real evidence of it.
post #4 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
I find it very, very strange that they claim it's a "serious problem"...yet they are unable to present any real evidence of it.
Also, what do they think Brasil and its government are? Did they think for a minute, that if indeed that was a big problem, our authorities wouldn't intervene? H-E-L-L-O!
post #5 of 22
Wow, the video is pretty disturbing (which is the intention, I know). I think it's terrible to bury children, even if it IS fake. My question is, why did the tribe agree to do the video to begin with?
post #6 of 22
I would be interested though, in how this person explains this last remark:

Quote:
"I think the missionaries are stirring up hatred against the Indians, who they profess to be concerned about," said Fiona Watson, a Brazil campaigner for Survival.

"The infanticide is not being explained; it's being taken out of context."
post #7 of 22
That fact that Youth with a Mission did this video is not at all surprising to me.
post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
Wow, the video is pretty disturbing (which is the intention, I know). I think it's terrible to bury children, even if it IS fake. My question is, why did the tribe agree to do the video to begin with?
I thought that was an interesting question myself, and just speculating came up with numerous answers. They may have been told it was something "historical", they may have been told it was to use against a rival tribe, the tribe in the video may be one that doesn't even have such practices and were being used as "extras". They may have just been well paid.
post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by esrgirl View Post
That fact that Youth with a Mission did this video is not at all surprising to me.
I get the impression from the article that the mission group may be motivated to press for a new law that would allow them to "rescue" (as in kidnap and indoctrinate) children from the native tribes.
post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090320/od_nm/us_indians

A missionary group aiding in the making of a fictional "documentary" that promotes an agenda of hatred. Imagine that.
Sometimes, some practices are good to hate - things that cause the needless suffering of others, which includes slavery; sex with children & animals; torture...
It would be hard to film the practices actually happening; kinda like expecting being able to film crimes in order to substantiate them, rather than allowing witness testimony & forensic evidence.
The Brazil government was debating the controversial "Muwaji's law" which was the brain-child of Brazilian Congressman Henrique Alfonso, who stirred controversy by trying to legislate parents' rights to home-school their children. I don't know if it passed or not.
Some doctors and anthropologists are adamant that no one should interfere with the tribes' cultures. But other Indians object to certain of the practices.
Mothers who are forced to kill their babies or abandon them to die in the forest often commit suicide. The children are killed because they are disabled, or female, or from an unwed mother. they are buried alive because if they die while their face is above ground, their ghost will come back to haunt the tribe. If they are deformed, they have a "monkey soul" and not a "human soul" and also must be killed, altho poisoning & abandonment is acceptable. In some ways, I see this as a "women's and children's rights issue"
Atini is a group dedicated to helping indigneous peoples. They claim that the Indians are more threatened by the ranchers, miners & loggers than the missionaries, but the missionaries are being targeted in order to take the attention off the former groups.
Here are some articles, if you want additional information on this topic:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=6788207&page=1

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...by-burial.html
post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsknowme View Post
Sometimes, some practices are good to hate - things that cause the needless suffering of others, which includes slavery; sex with children & animals; torture...
It would be hard to film the practices actually happening; kinda like expecting being able to film crimes in order to substantiate them, rather than allowing witness testimony & forensic evidence.
The Brazil government was debating the controversial "Muwaji's law" which was the brain-child of Brazilian Congressman Henrique Alfonso, who stirred controversy by trying to legislate parents' rights to home-school their children. I don't know if it passed or not.
Some doctors and anthropologists are adamant that no one should interfere with the tribes' cultures. But other Indians object to certain of the practices.
Mothers who are forced to kill their babies or abandon them to die in the forest often commit suicide. The children are killed because they are disabled, or female, or from an unwed mother. they are buried alive because if they die while their face is above ground, their ghost will come back to haunt the tribe. If they are deformed, they have a "monkey soul" and not a "human soul" and also must be killed, altho poisoning & abandonment is acceptable. In some ways, I see this as a "women's and children's rights issue"
Atini is a group dedicated to helping indigneous peoples. They claim that the Indians are more threatened by the ranchers, miners & loggers than the missionaries, but the missionaries are being targeted in order to take the attention off the former groups.
Here are some articles, if you want additional information on this topic:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=6788207&page=1

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...by-burial.html
Every single word from what you are saying come from Edson Suzuki & Marcia Suzuki, who are member of the Christian Missionary Group Atini - and are, by the way, the makers of the documentary in this thread. SO, a little biased, perhaps?
post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
I get the impression from the article that the mission group may be motivated to press for a new law that would allow them to "rescue" (as in kidnap and indoctrinate) children from the native tribes.
My thoughts exactly.
post #13 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsknowme View Post
Sometimes, some practices are good to hate - things that cause the needless suffering of others, which includes slavery; sex with children & animals; torture...
It would be hard to film the practices actually happening; kinda like expecting being able to film crimes in order to substantiate them, rather than allowing witness testimony & forensic evidence.
The Brazil government was debating the controversial "Muwaji's law" which was the brain-child of Brazilian Congressman Henrique Alfonso, who stirred controversy by trying to legislate parents' rights to home-school their children. I don't know if it passed or not.
Some doctors and anthropologists are adamant that no one should interfere with the tribes' cultures. But other Indians object to certain of the practices.
Mothers who are forced to kill their babies or abandon them to die in the forest often commit suicide. The children are killed because they are disabled, or female, or from an unwed mother. they are buried alive because if they die while their face is above ground, their ghost will come back to haunt the tribe. If they are deformed, they have a "monkey soul" and not a "human soul" and also must be killed, altho poisoning & abandonment is acceptable. In some ways, I see this as a "women's and children's rights issue"
Atini is a group dedicated to helping indigneous peoples. They claim that the Indians are more threatened by the ranchers, miners & loggers than the missionaries, but the missionaries are being targeted in order to take the attention off the former groups.
Here are some articles, if you want additional information on this topic:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=6788207&page=1

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...by-burial.html
Actually, when I said this;
Quote:
I find it very, very strange that they claim it's a "serious problem"...yet they are unable to present any real evidence of it
I wasn't referring to them actually filming such events taking place. I was referring to the fact that they don't have "witness testimony & forensic evidence". They have claims that the government is covering up such activities to protect the tribes. Well, we also have people in the US claiming that the government is covering up their involvement in the events of 9/11. We also have people that claim that every criminal act that involves a Muslim or an illegal alien occurs because the person is a Muslim or illegal alien. One is no more believable than the other actually. And the fact that they're willing to aid in fabricating "evidence" throws the greater part of what they have to say into suspect as IMO.
post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinalima View Post
This pisses me off - I wish that these missionaries just kept themselves away from Brasil in general, period. I have no clue why they think that they have the right to go there in the first place, with the idea that they are better than the indians. When most of the indigenas tribes have been extinct around the world, LEAVE the surviving ones alone! They have the right to their beliefs and culture, and it's nobody else's business, but their own. They live away from the cities, and bother nobody. They certainly don't bother us Brasilians; on the contrary - we know to protect them.
IMO these guys should be deported and never be allowed in the country again.
Sadly, the Missionary's idea of helping seems to be vastly different. The Plains Indians of the US, the Yupik and Inuit of the northern territories, were all contacted and "helped" by Missionaries. Now, they are totally dependent on food, fuel, textiles, shelter, and of course, lots and lots of alcoholic beverages, from the US and Canada. Many of the Native American tribes in the US now sell duty free cigarettes, run Bingo halls and sell trinkets, a bit like a cross between outcasts and a circus. Only decades after the forced relocations and conversions was it revealed that it was to obtain their lands, their resources and to address the particular "native problem" of the region. How Christian of us.

These tribes have existed in a delicate balance with their environment for thousands of years. They should be left alone.
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Sadly, the Missionary's idea of helping seems to be vastly different. The Plains Indians of the US, the Yupik and Inuit of the northern territories, were all contacted and "helped" by Missionaries. Now, they are totally dependent on food, fuel, textiles, shelter, and of course, lots and lots of alcoholic beverages, from the US and Canada. Many of the Native American tribes in the US now sell duty free cigarettes, run Bingo halls and sell trinkets, a bit like a cross between outcasts and a circus. Only decades after the forced relocations and conversions was it revealed that it was to obtain their lands, their resources and to address the particular "native problem" of the region. How Christian of us.

These tribes have existed in a delicate balance with their environment for thousands of years. They should be left alone.
Let's save them for eternity, even if it means they will be killed while on Earth... Nice thought!
These tribes are in the middle of the Amazon. The Amazon is no little forest - it is almost as large as 1/2 of the US. They are nowhere near modern civilization, and that's the reason why they survived for thousands of years. Their land, their culture, their beliefs, their lives - absolutely they should be left alone! And protecting them IS to leave them alone; just look at what happened with all the other tribes in the world that were NOT left alone - were they saved? On the contrary - they were decimated.
post #16 of 22
I know nothing about the tribe in question, and I know nothing about the missionary group that did the filming. But I still want to know how you take infanticide out of context.
post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn View Post
I know nothing about the tribe in question, and I know nothing about the missionary group that did the filming. But I still want to know how you take infanticide out of context.
That actually was kind of a weird statement. I'd be interesting in knowing how that was meant too.
post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
That actually was kind of a weird statement. I'd be interesting in knowing how that was meant too.
I didn't take that statement as weird....so if we are to allow this infanticide, shouldn't we also stop our efforts to stop "female circumcision" since it is the beliefs and the traditions of the Muslim world
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsknowme View Post
I didn't take that statement as weird....so if we are to allow this infanticide, shouldn't we also stop our efforts to stop "female circumcision" since it is the beliefs and the traditions of the Muslim world
What about abortions, then?
post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsknowme View Post
I didn't take that statement as weird....so if we are to allow this infanticide, shouldn't we also stop our efforts to stop "female circumcision" since it is the beliefs and the traditions of the Muslim world
I really haven't seen anything yet that gives any credibility that there is any infanticide going on. I've seen a video that the makers have already admitted is staged fiction, and a conspiracy theory by a missionary group that claims the Brazilian government is covering up the widespread, frequent murder of children.
post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Sadly, the Missionary's idea of helping seems to be vastly different. The Plains Indians of the US, the Yupik and Inuit of the northern territories, were all contacted and "helped" by Missionaries. Now, they are totally dependent on food, fuel, textiles, shelter, and of course, lots and lots of alcoholic beverages, from the US and Canada. Many of the Native American tribes in the US now sell duty free cigarettes, run Bingo halls and sell trinkets, a bit like a cross between outcasts and a circus. Only decades after the forced relocations and conversions was it revealed that it was to obtain their lands, their resources and to address the particular "native problem" of the region. How Christian of us.

These tribes have existed in a delicate balance with their environment for thousands of years. They should be left alone.
There are differences in the policies and procedures between the two cases. In SA, the "Anglos" are trying to help the tribes preserve much of their culture, including their languages & customs. The direct opposite of what happened in the US.
My grand-aunt was "stolen" for a time from my great-grandparents and forced to go to Sherman School. My grandmother's actual birthdate was earlier than shown on her birth certificate because she was born on other tribal lands, to confuse the authorities, so she wouldn't be forced to go to school. My grand-aunt says they had to keep pregnancies and births hidden because the "Americans" would come back in a few years and take the baby away to school. My grandfather was born over the border in Mexico, so being a "mexican" instead of "yaqui", he was allowed to remain with family.
I appreciate what you say about the American Indians, my great-grandparents were relocated from Julian, CA to Arizona because they thought they were making a land use agreement with the Mormons, but instead had somehow signed over land ownership
And I think that the miners and ranchers are more of a threat to the SA Indians....their forests are in the "sights" for development
post #22 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsknowme View Post
There are differences in the policies and procedures between the two cases. In SA, the "Anglos" are trying to help the tribes preserve much of their culture, including their languages & customs. The direct opposite of what happened in the US.
My grand-aunt was "stolen" for a time from my great-grandparents and forced to go to Sherman School. My grandmother's actual birthdate was earlier than shown on her birth certificate because she was born on other tribal lands, to confuse the authorities, so she wouldn't be forced to go to school. My grand-aunt says they had to keep pregnancies and births hidden because the "Americans" would come back in a few years and take the baby away to school. My grandfather was born over the border in Mexico, so being a "mexican" instead of "yaqui", he was allowed to remain with family.
I appreciate what you say about the American Indians, my great-grandparents were relocated from Julian, CA to Arizona because they thought they were making a land use agreement with the Mormons, but instead had somehow signed over land ownership
And I think that the miners and ranchers are more of a threat to the SA Indians....their forests are in the "sights" for development
I agree that there are differences. I'm sure that the miners and ranchers are more of an immediate threat. But to set up "ministries" to teach them things not of their culture and to call the attention of the world to these tribal people through use of fictional docu-dramas accusing them of a practice that may or may not exist doesn't do much at all to preserve their culture and customs. In fact, (IMO) I see it merely as a "back door" to increase the Missionary presence among the tribal people of the regions. Creating disdain and hatred for these tribes is a threat to their very existence, not just their lands and customs. The very, very least of one's worries, is still a worry.
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