Dr. Pitcaim?

cocoa cream

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Has anyone read Dr. Pitcairn's book Natural Health for Dogs and Cats? I read on the dog forum I belong to that he has alot of good recipes for raw or homecooked diets for dogs and cats, and I'm wondering if any of you raw feeders have used them.

I have been having alot of problems with my cats on the foods I can afford, and our new doggie is already seeming to have some of the same issues. I have just about had it with the store-bought food anyway, since I can't possibly afford to feed 3 cats and a 60 lb. dog the highest quality super-premium stuff. I used to think I couldn't afford to do a raw diet, either....but considering the vet bills I might not have to pay, I'm almost convinced it would be an even trade!
 

mschauer

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I haven't read the book but am looking forward to the comments of others.

What problems have you had with processed foods?
 
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cocoa cream

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Originally Posted by mschauer

What problems have you had with processed foods?
Mainly, frequent loose stools, as well as Maggie's tendency to vomit immediately after eating. I've had them to the vet several times for the diarrhea, but they always site bacterial imbalance as the problem. I am going to look into getting some kind of probiotic to help with this, but I really wonder if the main source of the problem is the quality of their food. I know it's not the best, but I have them eating primarily Friskies canned and a little bit of Iams (kitten still) and Newman's Own Organics combined.
 

sharky

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I have it and use it fairly regularly... His approach is FAR less radical than some which makes it much easier to assimilate his ideas into a routine


what tests has the vet run , coming up with imbalance ??
 
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cocoa cream

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Originally Posted by sharky

I have it and use it fairly regularly... His approach is FAR less radical than some which makes it much easier to assimilate his ideas into a routine


what tests has the vet run , coming up with imbalance ??
They've always done the typical fecal exams, gram stain, etc. No parasites or anything like that...just bacterial "overgrowth." Mind you, the diarrhea is not the only reason I'm thinking of transitioning to a homemade diet for our animals...it's just one factor that among many. I really have been impressed by all the good reports from people who have both dogs and cats on raw or homecooked diets, and I'd really like to have healthy, vital kitties and doggie!
 

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I have heard the name mentioned a time or two in the raw forum but haven't personally read the book. I've been meaning to check the local library and see what they have as far as cat nutrition books. The boys have been eating raw for 6 weeks now and are doing great.

Leslie
 

mschauer

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Originally Posted by sharky

I have it and use it fairly regularly... His approach is FAR less radical than some which makes it much easier to assimilate his ideas into a routine
Can you expand on this? What do you consider "radical" about other approaches?
 

sharky

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Originally Posted by mschauer

Can you expand on this? What do you consider "radical" about other approaches?
when you read it youll understand ...

he takes a more graduated approach and is NOT all or nothing
 

katgoddess

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I have it and like referring back to it. Most people who have read it likes it as well, but some feel that his recipes are too high in grain content. I won't comment on that because I don't use his recipes, but everything else in there is so informative.
 

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Like I said, I haven't read the book so haven't seen the recipes but if they have a lot of grain I would definately think twice about feeding them to a cat. Like wise if they contain a lot of fruits and/or veggies.

A raw recipe for a cat is really pretty simple and doesn't have a lot of ingredients. I'm currently using the one at www.catinfo.org. Finding a good source for the meats and organs, especially the organs, is the hardest part.

I'm undecided about cooked homemade food for cats. Cooking defeats one of what I consider the main benefits of raw, it destroys the enzymes needed for proper digestion.
 
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cocoa cream

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Originally Posted by mschauer

I'm undecided about cooked homemade food for cats. Cooking defeats one of what I consider the main benefits of raw, it destroys the enzymes needed for proper digestion.
From what I've read online, his book encourages raw feeding, but he does state that if you are uncomfortable with it, you can cook the meat in his recipes. I think for my cats I would want to leave it raw. I agree about the enzymes for digestion, since that is one of the problems I've been dealing with the whole time.

Not sure about our doggie yet. She is five years old and has never, to my knowledge, been fed raw. She was a rescue doggie, who spent most of her life with a BYB, so I don't know what she was fed before she came to us. I know it takes time for older dogs to adjust to raw, so I would probably start with homecooked meals first to get her used to eating non-processed foods. Actually, she's been having some diarrhea the last few days, so I already have her on a bland diet of chicken and rice right now to help her tummy settle...and she loves it!
 

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Originally Posted by Cocoa Cream

From what I've read online, his book encourages raw feeding, but he does state that if you are uncomfortable with it, you can cook the meat in his recipes. I think for my cats I would want to leave it raw. I agree about the enzymes for digestion, since that is one of the problems I've been dealing with the whole time.

Not sure about our doggie yet. She is five years old and has never, to my knowledge, been fed raw. She was a rescue doggie, who spent most of her life with a BYB, so I don't know what she was fed before she came to us. I know it takes time for older dogs to adjust to raw, so I would probably start with homecooked meals first to get her used to eating non-processed foods. Actually, she's been having some diarrhea the last few days, so I already have her on a bland diet of chicken and rice right now to help her tummy settle...and she loves it!
my dog was 8 when I start routinely cooking or uncooking for her ... she took right to it

With the enzyme issue ... even many raw meats lack them ( do a little research on that) so it is IMHO a mute issue ... I go off which is digested better ... In the current house some raw , some browned and some cooked flys well.. Of course the whole diet is based off Oriental medicine in my house , ahh the lack of issues is great
 

mschauer

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Originally Posted by sharky

With the enzyme issue ... even many raw meats lack them ( do a little research on that) so it is IMHO a mute issue ...
I've done a lot of research on the enzyme issue and have never run across anything like that. Can you point me to a source for that information?
 

laureen227

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Originally Posted by Cocoa Cream

They've always done the typical fecal exams, gram stain, etc. No parasites or anything like that...just bacterial "overgrowth."
have you tried bene-bac? Java had that same thing - took 2 rounds of antibiotics + a round of the probiotic [bene-bac] to eliminate.
 

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I would like to eventually move to a homemade/raw diet. I've been interested in the topic for awhile so I purchased Dr. Pitcairn's book when a vet recommended it to me. Many people have recommended it to me since that time also when I inquired about homemade/raw feeding.

I absolutely love it. It's a great primer on the subject and he's so knowledgeable. When I read his book it was like I have a personal vet appointment with him and he's giving me the discussion.


Great list of recipes and all the background info you need to start out. And it's 466 pages!

I was having food issues with my male cat and that's why I was reading up on it. He's doing well on his current food, but this book will become a constant reference when I go to a homemade cat food.

I honestly don't think there is anything I didn't like about the book.
 
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cocoa cream

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I have heard of it, but not yet tried it. Today I bought some plain yogurt to mix with their food in hopes that will add some good bacteria on a regular basis.

On a somewhat unrelated topic...we just found out that our collie Brenna has hookworm, explaining her digestive issues all week...so tomorrow everyone will go to the vet, get weighed and prescribed a de-wormer. If the cats have indeed gotten hookworms from her, that would possibly explain this week's diarrhea onset.

But I am still very interested in the whole idea of homemade pet food, just trying to sell hubby on it...he still thinks our pets are pampered and spoiled because his family only had outdoor pets growing up, and they were just fed cheap kibble. So, we've come a long way, but IMO still have a ways to go!
 

katgoddess

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Originally Posted by mschauer

I've done a lot of research on the enzyme issue and have never run across anything like that. Can you point me to a source for that information?
I'm not Sharky and I can't find the site where I found this information now, but adding to this discussion, I read somewhere that although raw meat does contain a lot of enzymes that are not present in cooked meat, that the particular enzymes are not actually beneficial or used by the body in cats/dogs.

I don't know if this is true, but since you said you've done a lot of research on enzymes, do you know anything about this issue? Is it true/false?
 

mschauer

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Originally Posted by KatGoddess

Here, I went and Googled and found some links. I'd be interested to see whether these are actual facts.
Only the first and the last of those links addresses the issue of whether there are enzymes in raw food that aid in digestibility and which are destroyed by cooking. The last one contains the most information.

Dr. Remillard (the site owner) clearly does not believe there is any benefit to feeding a raw diet. You can easily find many, many people who would agree.

From the last link:
Buying enzyme supplements for your normal healthy pet is NOT needed
Pet owners who buy enzyme supplements most often do so because their pet is suffering from some kind of digestion problem. They continue to buy such products because they work. Why else would they continue to buy them? I suppose you could say that those pets don't fit the "normal healthy pet" qualification. In which case there are a heck of a lot of pets out there that aren't normal and healthy by this definition at least. I use such a supplement because my Coco has loose stools without it and I can tell you the store where I buy it sells a lot of it.

I don't find it surprising that there isn't agreement on whether there are any benefits to the enzymes present in raw foods. There is plenty of disagreement when it comes to pet nutrition. I certainly don't dismiss the information in the last link above though. I'll see if I can find an authoritative counter opinion.
 

sharky

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I get most of mine info from the meat journals and vet journals ( holistic kind).... Mostly that meat off the farm and never frozen still has all the viable enzymes but most meat at a typical grocer is frozen ... the freezing data is 50/50 saying yes and no about whether or not they are merely slowed or are in fact inactivated
 
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