Urgent - Need Input...

I'm actively working with my cat's, The Crashman's, lifelong vet on this and need imput....he's been examined by her three times, had blood work (normal), abdominal xray (normal), no temperature, no diarhea, no vomitting while on Buprinex (morphine derivative)...has gone from about 13# to 10.5# in last couple months at most...has lost half a pound in last ten days....
He had a bare spot on his chest, no bruising, no redness, no roughened hair from excess grooming...that and the weight loss were only oddities...the fur is growing back in on his little bare spot on his chest...
Crash is strictly a housecat/gets to go out on screen porch too.....
Now today, he started making this WEIRD crunching noise when he eats soft cat food.....icky sound.....I've got calls in on his vet's home and cell numbers..
He's gotten fluids twice at the vet and on Monday just got an injection of long acting steroid and another of Pepcid....and 150 ml of fluids...he's drinking water by the way and his kidneys are fine per the vet....
The Crashman is formidable to medicate.....all I can do to gently contain him to give .15ml of Buprinex squirted in his mouth......
Vet checked all his teeth, none loose, none appear painful.....

What do you all think?????

Thanks,
Ellen in VA and The Crashman....
p.s. I found a thread on here from the past, with someone mentioning their foster cat making crunching sounds and have emailed them....

My first thought was to have his teeth checked, but if you've done that I don't know what else to suggest. Maybe someone else has more experience with something like this. for a quick diagnosis and that it will be something easy to treat.

Sorry, I have not experienced this either. Hoping someone will have a suggestion for you.

How old is he? Why is he on a pain medication, buprinex?

Have there been any changes in his life or did anything happen just prior to this health issue? Have you changed foods lately?

Just trying to think of questions that might help. I hope he feels better soon.

How old is he, what bloods were checked, and why on pain meds?

Ellen, going by your post it seems your kitty has some very serious health issues.
The crunching noise you hear when he's eating is teeth grinding. Since it happens when he is eating, the first thing you would look for is a serious dental/oral problem. To determine what's going on with him he may need X-rays and an oral exam under anesthesia. (Perhaps under the circumstances this won't be possible.)

Does he grind his teeth only when he is eating, or do you also hear the crunching sound when he is not eating? (If you do, the possible causes can be numerous.)

Honestly, I think it's time to get a second opinion from another vet.

I second the second opinion.

Sending healthy vibes for Crash.

His vet is the very best....just wonderful....adores cats and she studies them alot....her focus.....
I'm going to get him checked again tomorrow....get head/dental xrays...under isoflorine gas or whatever vet recommends....no lumps bumps or bad breath....
no change in cat foods, his fur is the shiniest it's ever been....
he only started crunching when eating wet food yesterday....his teeth had a tiny bit of tartar but were all firm and he didn't react to pain on any of them.....
before the buprinex he was vomitting alot, with it, the vomitting stopped, appeared to have been from pain.

Ellen

Any idea what was causing the pain? Pain meds may make him feel better, but it won't take care of the underlying problem. Also, if he had pain meds before the dental check, he wouldn't be likely to show pain because it would be masked.

Boy, my first wild shot in the dark would be to figure out the vomiting. That has to be tied into the weight loss, and it's hard on teeth.

Has his jaw been checked? That seems the most logical explanation for the crunching at this point, since his teeth checked out okay. I have terrible TMJ and my jaw will crunch at times too (bone grinding at the joint). It's also very painful. Perhaps he injured it somehow or just has something similiar to TMJ in cats.

How is his liver? Teeth grinding can be a sign of stomach acid (and stomach acid would tie in with vomitting).

hmmm... well, I'll be honest. Different times I have also heard that "grinding" sound when my cats eat. They kind of turn their head to the side a bit while they are chewing and it sounds like grinding. I've seen a lot of cats do this (we rescued cats in the past too) and it only happened when they were eating. I wouldn't be too concerned but have your vet check it out any ways. I am sure he will find that nothing is wrong.

As for the hair loss and weight loss. Cats tend to lose their hair if they have had a fever (infection) or if they are anemic. Is your cat tired? Gums pale? FIV and FeLeuk are two of the main causes of Anemia. They will also cause weight loss and some of the other symptoms you are talking about. I am sure he has been tested for these two diseases though?

Has he been eating less? If so, I would try him on another food. My sisters cat also lost a few pounds and I finally convinced her to switch his food. He seemed to be getting tired of his food and ate less and less and gradually lost weight (not that he couldn't afford to do so). She switched his food and he started eating well again.

Also, you can try mashing a cat vitamin in a small amount of wet food and let him eat it. I have done this in the past for a cat we had who was recovering from pyometra and also two kittens we rescued who were anemic and recovering. It worked well.

Good luck to you!

We've been dealing with his weight loss since just before 2/23...and the crunching just started yesterday and he's eating a bit better on less buprinex...I have had Crash about ten years and never ever heard crunching before....icky sound...
He now wants you to say with him while he eats and this says to me that eating is uncomfortable for him in some way.....he did let me step into the kitchen this am with the laundry room door open and he ate happily....
Just wish the little dude could talk and tell me what's up.....
Ellen

I'm wondering if he's getting too much Buprinex. We recently gave my 13 yo cat ONE dose of it and she was like a zombie for a couple of days, which meant she hardly ate anything (lost weight) and wouldn't eat without me near and/or petting her. Seems like maybe some of these things may be a reaction to the medication.

Has he been checked for Hyperthyroid, diabetes, and CRF? I'd also be more concerned about the throwing up and work to solve that problem.

Yep, his thyroid panel and all other elements of his $100 blood testing came back normal....I gave him the dosage range of Buprinex the vet recommended for his weight at the time...it was the only thing that stopped the vomitting when that was a problem...
I gave Crash a half dose (.05 ml) of Buprinex last pm was all I had left...he's had none today and is eating so-so....actually went to his dish by himself and ate some canned cat food....
Will see how he is in the a.m. and decide if he needs another trip to the vet....that's what the vet recommended, to see how he did today...then decide tomorrow morning...
He's not vomitting, no diarrhea still, not dehydrated...is eating some....seems content....will double check for dehydration later tonight....
Yeesh....
Thanks,
Ellen and Crash...

Regardless of how great he vet is or has been doing, a second opinion would give you another perspective.

I have a lot of human doctors who are very good at what they do but I still wouldn't refrain from having another doctor offer their opinion on the situation.

Please for your kitty's sake seek a second opinion, his normal doctor will not be hurt by this. It's obvious that the current doctor isn't sure whats going on, that doesn't make them a bad doctor.

Leslie

I totally agree with the need here to get a 2nd opinion. Regardless of how great your current Vet is, despite much testing, he's so far been completely unable to diagnose your cat's issues so in the best interest of your cat, you need to do what you have to, to pursue the underlying problem. Is there a clinic in your area that specializes in cats only? (look up "Veterinarians" in the yellow pages of phone book; you'll see listings of local vet clinics and if there's a "cat only" clinic, you should see their listing).

Has the Vet examined your cat's jaw at all? Perhaps there is a partially dislocated jaw which is causing pain to eat/decreased eating/weight loss. Pain from that could cause vomiting?

I'd be considering a request for an ultrasound of the abdomen, to have a good look at the major internal organs (xrays show little in this regard)

Also, has vet considered Pancreatitis? It's often difficult to diagnose in cats (though there are better blood tests for it now; but these are not "routine" so it's likely that your Vet hasn't done these). They'll have vomiting, weight loss, abdominal pain. An ultrasound of the abdomen would give a good visualization of the pancreas; if nothing else to see if there's any inflammation or problems with the gall bladder or common bile duct, etc.

If I was you, I'd request copies of all bloodwork done to date. I can't tell you how many times Vets have told me over the years "oh everything is normal" but when I get copies, I see things that are of concern; if nothing else, something that should be checked again.

Has your Vet "felt" your cat's thyroid gland area to feel for any nodules or issues? I know you said your cat's thyroid was checked via labwork......you know this for sure? (i say that because thyroid isn't part of a routine blood panel, it's usually one that's requested/added on)

Cornell University has a Feline Phone Consultation Service where Vets OR an owner can call them up and consult with one of their (awesome!) Feline Specialists. You could request that your Vet call them up (print off the page and make sure Vet knows what hours they're available); he'd have access to all lab results, etc...which would be helpful to them. You could call too but if you don't actually have the results, it might not be as good. They're going to want to know specifically what tests were done, results:

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/camuti.htm

I've used them, many others I know have, too. $55 is all it costs. I highly recommend it.

Is there a Vet school in your area? Or any kind of Vet Specialist Clinic? I know where I am here there's a specialty clinic where you can only get your pet in to see one of their Vet specialists by referral from your regular Vet. They're the ones you go to when your neighborhood Vet is really stumped. If you find there is one,ask for a referral. Don't feel bad about insulting your Vet. If he was worth anything he'd be taking it upon himself to consider a consult anyway.

An ultrasound of the abdomen might also show (god forbid) if there's any kind of abdominal tumor.

I had an old siamese years ago; she would make that crunching noise when eating wet food. She also had kidney failure so not sure if that was related. It used to drive me nuts, it just sounded so creepy.

The Crashman is not doing well, I gave him subq fluids twice yesterday, he won't touch canned food or dry food except for cat treats and he was dropped off for vet to see this morning, just spoke with her by phone, his weight went from 10 lbs 10 oz to 10 lbs 1.5 oz since last monday....he was dehydrated this am..he's drinking more water, I've noticed....his spirit is still shining but his body is fading away....

Vet is really thinking cancer.....she's running some inhouse bloodwork as she thought he looked a bit pale, will get results by phone any minute...if abnormal, would indicate major disease going on...

Thinking about those dental xrays would have to be done at another clinic/head could be done where he is but xray quality/definition of teeth could be issue, Crash would have to be sedated.....vet gave him that Depomedrol steroid shot last monday and he's not getting help from that she said....vet still sees/feels no lumps or bumps, no teeth seem loose or painful....nothing in his throat....just really frustrating trying to help him....abdominal ultrasound no possible in my budget and surgery is out of my budget, also something is obviously very very wrong with him to just whither away over a period of a few weeks...started out about 13# and now just over 10#.

So sad,

Ellen, first of all I'd like to say, I'm very, very sorry your baby is not doing well. I know how upset you must be.
When you first posted about the crunching sound and mentioned your baby was on Buprenex and getting fluids, etc, I thought you were dealing with a serious diagnosed illness and so I didn't ask any questions. Going by your posts it seems now that you don't have a diagnosis and you have no idea why your baby is so sick. This is very worrisome because the illness could be something for which there is treatment, but you're not getting the help you need to find out what's wrong with your baby.

Since you posted about crunching sounds (teeth grinding), which can be a sign of many underlying health problems, and there is also severe weight loss, anorexia, a need for serious pain medication and fluids, I'd like you to give very serious thought to the list I'll be posting for you in a minute. And please, Ellen, listen to all of us who are urging you to take your baby to another vet for a second opinion. If nothing is done, there is a very real possibility you will lose your baby and you will never even know what was wrong with him.

Here is the list of diseases/conditions teeth grinding can be a sign of:

Dental and oral problems - a long list
Dehydration
Excess stomach acid
Hyperthyroidism
Low calcium
Low potassium
Nausea
Neurologic disorders
Inflammatory bowel disease
Pancreatic disease
Cholangiohepatits
Gastritis
Abdominal pain
Brain tumors
Peripheral nerve neuropathies
Bartonella

Many, many prayers for your baby.

Ellen, please listen to us.