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child pornography laws

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
This story that I saw today on the local news made me think about the laws about child pornography- http://www.wsbtv.com/news/18899251/detail.html#-
Anyway I was thinking about how ridiculous it could get. It doesn't say it in the story but on TV the cop being interviewed said that people who had downloaded child pornography being charged with child pornography...
I couldn't help but think how many pop ups there are, say an adult is on an adult site, and a pop up comes up with child pornography...How can they charge people just based on what they downloaded??? I had a creepy guy that I used to IM with, that I knew briefly who sent me links to some disturbing sites. I know I opened them once to see what it was, of course then disconnected all communication w/ the guy..So according to these people I'm a child pornographer lol. I don't know how they draw the line of when they can charge someone and when they cannot..Does anyone know??
ETA: I do think child pornography is a horrible thing...But I feel like the ones who they need to go after is those criminals who actually tape those videos!! They are the ones who need to be in jail for life IMO.
2nd ETA: Another thing that kinda goes along with that: Casey Anthony's internet google searches. When I heard they were actually using it as evidence I just couldn't believe it. The kind of things that are on my history, OMG I get amused when I go back to look at it....It's totally irrelevant in a murder case! I feel like all this control over what we do online is getting out of hand and it's becoming a big brother is watching kind of thing...
post #2 of 24
If you're so worried about who's watching clean out histories, lock things down, use proxies/freenet.

Luckily a lot of people committing such crimes get caught because of their stupidity.
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
If you're so worried about who's watching clean out histories, lock things down, use proxies/freenet.

Luckily a lot of people committing such crimes get caught because of their stupidity.
i'm not really worried, I just feel like what people do online does not reflect who they may be and how criminal their acts are. I feel like it's not right to use things like that as evidence in a court of law. Like obviously no one would have looked at Casey Anthony's history if she hadn't really been charged with murder, but I am sure there are millions of people out there googling the kind of stuff she did....It's just kind of ridiculous that it was even mentioned! It's like saying "oh I watch CSI all the time that means I might be a murderer". Anyway, about the child pornography it's different but still they are after the wrong people, not the real criminals who videotape children have sex....Even if those people did intentionally watch child pornography, it's likely that most of them would never commit a crime against a child. It's kind of like some of those "thought crimes" that were on Minority report lol ...I understand that some people might say that they are contributing to the industry of child pornography, but that doesn't mean to me that the industry exist because of them, they are not responsible for it in any way...
I guess that's just me being myself and disagreeing with all those laws out there. I mean if they charge people who watch child pornography, they should also charge people who watch animal pornography because it's animal abuse....
post #4 of 24
I think they need to get both - the ones who make and distribute it and the ones who watch it.

If there was no market for it, then the ones making and distributing that disgusting stuff would not be making any money and wouldn't do it.

I think pop-ups are a whole different thing than people downloading porn to their computers. I'm not computer savvy enough to know if the computer whiz kids can tell the difference though.
post #5 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
I think they need to get both - the ones who make and distribute it and the ones who watch it.
I'm with Linda

I have quite a good filter on my laptop, but at work i won't open anything that has anything to do with porn, viagra etc...It goes straight into the trash can unopened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
I had a creepy guy that I used to IM with, that I knew briefly who sent me links to some disturbing sites. ...
IMO theres something wrong with people who's into things such as child porn
post #6 of 24
I agree with Linda.

I have never had any pornography or child pornography pop ups, but if I did get a child pornography pop up or even a link from someone online that was child pornography, I would be contacting the police immediately. I would never just say "ooops" and continue on with what I was doing.
post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pami View Post
but if I did get a child pornography pop up or even a link from someone online that was child pornography, I would be contacting the police immediately. I would never just say "ooops" and continue on with what I was doing.
You and i both Pam.
post #8 of 24
Thread Starter 
How can you contact the police about someone you've never seen before, know only by his or her screen name?? I have a feeling no one will pay any attention to that...
But yea I agree something needs to be done so that the stuff doesn't get distributed. I'm just angry at the police because they never do things right, they never go after the right people. Just like with drugs, they arrest random kids who are just unfortunate enough to get caught and be at the wrong place at the wrong time (after which they pretty much ruin their lives because once labeled a criminal, it sticks for one's entire life), but the people who distribute the drugs don't (or rarely) get caught...It's a bad approach, I think...
I do think there is something seriously wrong with people who watch child porn obviously...
Like I was watching this story and they made it seems like SUCH a big deal, and I kept thinking OMG they are so excited but in reality nothing has been done to protect children who get abused in that way...compared to those people who make the child porn, these people they caught are pretty innocent IMO. Yes they are disturbed but that doesn't make them criminal...
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
How can you contact the police about someone you've never seen before, know only by his or her screen name?? I have a feeling no one will pay any attention to that...
But yea I agree something needs to be done so that the stuff doesn't get distributed. I'm just angry at the police because they never do things right, they never go after the right people. Just like with drugs, they arrest random kids who are just unfortunate enough to get caught and be at the wrong place at the wrong time (after which they pretty much ruin their lives because once labeled a criminal, it sticks for one's entire life), but the people who distribute the drugs don't (or rarely) get caught...It's a bad approach, I think...
I do think there is something seriously wrong with people who watch child porn obviously...
There are people working within the police force that are computer knowledgeable and can track people down by their screen name and IP, etc. They would probably be grateful for innocent people to let them know about these people so I'm sure they would pay attention.

I don't know about your police but we have one of the world's finest police forces and they do most often do things right. I don't believe they arrest "random kids" who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Most of the "random kids" they arrest are often well-known to the police. I've been at parties that have been raided by the police and because I wasn't doing anything I should not have been, I was treated with respect by the police and not hassled. I have seen and heard police hassling young people but only because the young people started mouthing off and hassling the police first so they should be prepared to take what they dish out.
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
How can you contact the police about someone you've never seen before, know only by his or her screen name?? I have a feeling no one will pay any attention to that...
They can track you through your ISP. You can clear your history file out every hour, but it's still on your hard drive. Nothing these days is fool proof.
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
There are people working within the police force that are computer knowledgeable and can track people down by their screen name and IP, etc. They would probably be grateful for innocent people to let them know about these people so I'm sure they would pay attention.
Thats actually how they do find a lot of these sick people from just a screen name and they do find them.
post #12 of 24
Even my server provider would know if i was downloading material. I have the internet/e-mail only package, but they would know if i was to start downloading films, music etc because my neighbour was pulled by them and said if he carried on and extra £5 would be added onto his monthly bill.

Big Brother is watching, but i have nothing to hide so they can watch away for me
post #13 of 24
Although not professionally, I have a great interest in true crime and criminology, forensic psychology, etc. Most times, the people who have a downloaded collection of kiddie porn will or have done the actual deed themselves. They may or may not have taken pics or videotaped it. While there may be a few who search it out from some morbid curiosity, like some people search out crime scene photos, those who have a large collection of it aren't just curious. It's not the ones who "accidentally" download it, or some guy who likes the "barely legal" and accidentally gets pics of a girl who is 2 weeks shy of 18, that the cops are going after. The busts you hear of are of people with hundreds and thousands of these pictures and videos on their hard drives. That's not a mistake, an accident, or just curiosity. They are driving the market for this sick enterprise.

And yes, as others have said, with a record of a username/IP address, it is pretty easy to track people down, even if they are using proxies and all that. I've seen a website where you enter a static IP address (most broadband connections are static) and it will trace it down to the street location of where it originated. It's a hacker site, but you know the police and feds have the same or better technology.

As far as Casey Anthony's Google searches...well, she's an idiot. I mean, who searches for how to kill someone right before they do it on their own computer??? Seriously. Anyone with half a brain wouldn't do that. No one would have looked at her phone records either until she was suspected of murder, but you bet they pulled all incoming and outgoing calls to her home and cell phones around the dates in question.

But regardless...there's very little you can do on the internet that isn't recorded somewhere, by someone. There was a big to-do a while ago about Google keeping track of the searches on their servers. Ended up being settled with them saying that they just keep track of the searches for advertisement purposes and such, not who searches for what. But your ISP (Internet Service Provider) can also be keeping track of what sites you go to. Many have agreements not to, but some don't. Do you know what yours says? Many ISPs say that if you are found to be conducting illegal activity using their service, you will be cut off immediately. RIAA used the logs of ISPs to go after people they thought were file-sharing illegally. Everything you post here is logged into all of the search engines by their bots, as well as everything you post anywhere that isn't specifically a private space.
post #14 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
But regardless...there's very little you can do on the internet that isn't recorded somewhere, by someone. There was a big to-do a while ago about Google keeping track of the searches on their servers. Ended up being settled with them saying that they just keep track of the searches for advertisement purposes and such, not who searches for what. But your ISP (Internet Service Provider) can also be keeping track of what sites you go to. Many have agreements not to, but some don't. Do you know what yours says? Many ISPs say that if you are found to be conducting illegal activity using their service, you will be cut off immediately. RIAA used the logs of ISPs to go after people they thought were file-sharing illegally. Everything you post here is logged into all of the search engines by their bots, as well as everything you post anywhere that isn't specifically a private space.
That made me think of something- just a few weeks ago, my mom borrowed my laptop and used it to search for airplane tickets on travelocity or something..Well the price the search from my laptop gave her a higher price than when she did the search on her laptop just minutes ago...Lol we were talking about how they might be using history of purhchases made from the specific IP for price discrimination, because in general I am not as careful as her when I make purchases, I will buy the first thing while she actually will not buy anything unless it's a bargain... It's impossible to know though because prices change all the time for those sites.
post #15 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post

I don't know about your police but we have one of the world's finest police forces and they do most often do things right. I don't believe they arrest "random kids" who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Most of the "random kids" they arrest are often well-known to the police. I've been at parties that have been raided by the police and because I wasn't doing anything I should not have been, I was treated with respect by the police and not hassled. I have seen and heard police hassling young people but only because the young people started mouthing off and hassling the police first so they should be prepared to take what they dish out.
You are in Canada right? I have no idea about canadian police force. But I've been reading a lot about crime lately and I've read that in most cases (in the US)the people who get caught for small crimes such as drug use or vandalism are just unfortunate enough to get caught because a lot more people commit those crimes and get away with it. So the ones who get caught aren't all that more deviant than the rest of the population, just unlucky. Once caught though, they become known to police, and are likely to get in trouble again because they are the first ones to be suspected when another crime happens in the near future. So the police start to bargain with them and ask them to confess to crimes they may not have even committed in order to lower their probation time or something like that.. the police gets good crime resolution statistics, but the problem is other criminals go unpunished and they in a sense create the criminals, the unfortunate person who got caught for smoking pot is much more likely to commit more crimes after being caught than before....just because in general people live up to society's expectations of them, just like statistics show that people who belong to a race that is being discriminated will perform worse due to social pressure....Anyway i'm getting off topic. But yea I've never been unfortunate enough to have to deal with police either for any reason, never even had a speeding ticket (I hope I don't jinx it now that I say it lol) ...that's just stuff i've read.
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
But yea I've never been unfortunate enough to have to deal with police either for any reason, never even had a speeding ticket (I hope I don't jinx it now that I say it lol) ...that's just stuff i've read.
Please don't believe everything you read. Often it is slanted to whichever side the reporter wants it slanted and that's not necessarily the truth. In fact, I think it is a dangerous thing to believe something just because one has read it "somewhere".
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
Most times, the people who have a downloaded collection of kiddie porn will or have done the actual deed themselves. They may or may not have taken pics or videotaped it. While there may be a few who search it out from some morbid curiosity, like some people search out crime scene photos, those who have a large collection of it aren't just curious. It's not the ones who "accidentally" download it, or some guy who likes the "barely legal" and accidentally gets pics of a girl who is 2 weeks shy of 18, that the cops are going after. The busts you hear of are of people with hundreds and thousands of these pictures and videos on their hard drives. That's not a mistake, an accident, or just curiosity. They are driving the market for this sick enterprise.
I was going to say this last night, but simply felt to lazy at the time to bother.
Like with anything, if someone has an interest in something they're going to have something around and maybe even in large amounts that shows it. Whether it be an illegal activity or someone who likes having plants around. If you look, you'll find it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
And yes, as others have said, with a record of a username/IP address, it is pretty easy to track people down, even if they are using proxies and all that. I've seen a website where you enter a static IP address (most broadband connections are static) and it will trace it down to the street location of where it originated. It's a hacker site, but you know the police and feds have the same or better technology.
There are ways around this, freenet and heavy encryption being the main way. Using someone else's network is another obvious way to hide a lot of your activity. And the other is friend to friend sharing of files only + the other two with it.
Freenet and similar options rather interest me because eventually the internet won't even be as "free" as it is now. Countries blacklists are just the start.

Rather O/T, but back years ago when WinMx was more popular I used to hang out on there in a couple chat rooms. This was before people were patching rooms against code flooding and nushi poison. There were well known (to people on WinMx) child porn rooms. I'm not ashamed to admit joining in harassing these people. Several of us would flood those rooms - which also disconnected those users clients, we'd hide under nushi poison and get IPs off of the people sharing lots of horrible files. Then would post their IPs and details about it in their room and in the hacker rooms. Ah, the good old days. Note: I don't suggest anyone ever engages in such behavior (my only excuse is that I was still at teen at the time). While it's mindless fun it did get someone PO'ed at me who was smart enough to retaliate - I was luckily in that I had my computer locked down and was firewalled.
post #18 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
Please don't believe everything you read. Often it is slanted to whichever side the reporter wants it slanted and that's not necessarily the truth. In fact, I think it is a dangerous thing to believe something just because one has read it "somewhere".
Well it was reading for one of my classes actually...
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
There are ways around this, freenet and heavy encryption being the main way. Using someone else's network is another obvious way to hide a lot of your activity. And the other is friend to friend sharing of files only + the other two with it.
Freenet and similar options rather interest me because eventually the internet won't even be as "free" as it is now. Countries blacklists are just the start.
Yes, there are definitely ways around it, but frankly you have to have quite a bit of computer/hacker type knowledge that most people simply don't have and don't have access to. They wouldn't know how to do it even if they got straight step-by-step instructions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
Well it was reading for one of my classes actually...
Depending on which class it was for, it still may be totally biased one way or another. I'm pretty sure the reading material for Ward Churchill's (being the most well know, extremely biased ex-professor currently) classes didn't always have generally agreed upon "facts" either, but rather the "facts" that he supported.

I will agree with you in the fact that the stupid criminals are easier to bust than the career criminals and those who are actually organized. I do, however, take exception to the idea that the cops regularly coerce confessions to up their cleared-cases rate. I'm sure there are some who do, but the vast majority don't. Bad apples and all that. I have family in law enforcement, and I guarantee those men would not ever do that. And, unfortunately, I know people with real-world experience from the other side too. That's just not the case.
post #20 of 24
Thread Starter 
Well coerce is a bit of a strong word. I think i was trying to say that they will bargain while giving them lesser sentences if they confess, that sort of thing. So then the real criminal goes free and if its a theft nothing is recovered...
I don't think you can say something is biased and just stop believing in it... I think everything in social science has a bias there is absolutely no way to avoid bias... Marx was biased but we still study him and so was John Locke and Adam Smith... The thing is whether you choose to agree with their argument or not and how you shape your world view based on what you read, how much of it you agree with and how much you dismiss. But I feel like if it's being studied in a college course, it's not something that's just irrelevant..That's like saying that a scientific paper that is in nature is statistically irrelevant and statistics are manipulated to create erroneous results. I think that in order to fight crime this approach needs to be changed. I guess I agree that if someone is caught with a bunch of child porn they should be punished in some way. Having a child porn collection is not the same thing as what I was referring to originally... But I am not sure I agree that spying on people and looking at what they do online is right....It makes me feel like when I am sitting home alone, even though there is no one there, I'm really being watched. Say I want to find out info about how to make a bomb. Not that I would ever need to, but hey what if I want to do it for fun, I should have every right to..but if there is a bomb placed close to my house will I be a suspect? And will all my searches be put up as evidence?? It's just scary..
I know some of you think there is nothing wrong w/ that ..Like I have nothing to hide, but I still don't like it. I guess it's just my world view that people are entitled to privacy, and even if they are criminal I still feel like it's okay for them to have privacy because if not I feel like we are becoming wayy too much of a regulated society. I guess no one will probably agree with me because most people would rather feel safer and give up some of that privacy....
I mean I do think my political ideology is wayyy left almost radical so that could be it. That's just me though lol...
post #21 of 24
Again, I don't know about other police forces but I feel bad for ours. They bust the criminals and put their lives on the line every day, the courts and judges let the criminals go with a slap on the wrist. I realize the courts and judges are limited to what they can do by the laws, but I think they are often much too lenient and it must be very frustrating for the police.

Police have nothing to do with giving sentences so I don't really understand how they can give them lesser sentences.
post #22 of 24
Thread Starter 
Well they can promise them to reduce the charges or w/e I'm not familiar with technicalities. Or maybe it's not even the cops who do this kind of thing maybe it's when it comes to the prosecutors... I feel bad for police officers too. I would never want to do that job myself...it's soo dangerous. They are hard working people and it's not their fault- It's the system that I am not feeling that great about ...cops just do their job the way they train them..
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
Yes, there are definitely ways around it, but frankly you have to have quite a bit of computer/hacker type knowledge that most people simply don't have and don't have access to. They wouldn't know how to do it even if they got straight step-by-step instructions!
A bit O/T but I think so many people sell themselves short. Most people can learn to do lots of things, if they stop telling themselves they can't first.

As for access to - anything can be found if someone looks.. as ut0pia has proved, you don't even have to look for it sometimes.
post #24 of 24
Getting back on topic, I think it's great that so many child porn offenders have been caught by police forces being able to get information from their computers. And the police that go online and pretend to be young kids to get to predators - wonderful. We need more of that. Those sick people think they can hide behind their computer and be anonymous - well think again!

As for ut0pia's example of building a bomb, why would the average person want to know how to build a bomb unless they were doing a research paper or something like that on such a subject. That would be easy to prove if that were the case. And why would someone be surfing porn sites if they were not into porn? In all honesty they would have to be getting some kind of titillation from those sites IMO (unless they were just doing research .
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