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question about showing altered cats?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
Just something I wondered...

why is it that you can show altered cats, but not dogs?

Dog shows are to evaluate breeding stock.. it would be pointless to show an altered dog, as it couldnt be used for breeding. Sometimes I do wish you should show an altered dog.. I'd love to put my Fred in the ring and see how he compares.

So, is the purpose of cat shows also to evaluate? Why are altered cats allowed? Please explain!
post #2 of 29
I've always wondered that too...but glad the cat people are smart enough to allow them. Most times its a jump into a future breeder when you show altered cats, then into breeding and after retirement, you can go back to altered cats for the fun of it.

Dogs only come into heat twice a year and its not as hard to keep breeding dogs. With cats, its a totally different story.
post #3 of 29
besides us Household Pet people wouldn't get to have all the fun! I love that 'mutts' can be shown. To me, it's about the fun and showing off your fuzzy to everyone else.
post #4 of 29
Thread Starter 
ya, Ive seen mixed breed dog owners complain that they cant show their mixed breeds too.. then they get upset and act like its some kind of "beauty pageant".

I think they should offer some kind of alter class for dogs at least.

How are household pets judged at cat shows? I know with purebred dogs, they are judged based on how they fit the breed standard, but mixes dont have a standard.
post #5 of 29
Here is how they are judged.

http://cfa.org/shows/hhp.html
HOUSEHOLD PETS (HHP): TICA welcomes Household Pet exhibitors. HHPs have their own unique Standard and titles which are comparable to pedigreed cats. HHPs are judged primarily on condition, beauty, and show presence. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and colors and patterns are often a whim of Mother Nature.
post #6 of 29
Thread Starter 
So, basically for HHPs.. it is a beauty pageant?
post #7 of 29
Its a beauty pageant for pedigree and mixed. Just that the pedigrees have to go by the standards.......
post #8 of 29
Thread Starter 
I thought about maybe showing Bastet in an alter class.. perhaps I ought to show Bo Jangles instead.. he's quite a handsome cat.
post #9 of 29
I don't think it's just a beauty contest they must have a good nature too

Here in NZ the quality in the desexed class is on a par with the standard of the Entire cats.
post #10 of 29
Thread Starter 
Bo has a good nature.. he's a gentle giant... he's a big cat, he weighs around 15 pds. Actually, all of my cats are pretty good-natured..

Gozer can be rough, but she doesnt intend to be mean, she's just very playful, and likes to play rough. She's learned tho that she can play with James like that, but not me.

I just think that out of all of my cats, Bo is the best looking.. pics just dont do him justice.
post #11 of 29
I'd love to show Midori as a HHP. She's beautifully marked, nice coat, and sweet, but she's a 7 toed mutant.
post #12 of 29
I've heard many judges comment that the alters are better then the championship as they will hold coat and weight better without the hormones in their bodies
post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrajean View Post
I'd love to show Midori as a HHP. She's beautifully marked, nice coat, and sweet, but she's a 7 toed mutant.
Because the HHP class is supposed to be altered, extra toes are permitted and some judges are even partial to them
post #14 of 29
I know some 3-legged cats that do quite well in the HHP classes
post #15 of 29
Not that I know anything about showing...But I'd think that showing alters still helps demonstrate the quality of the breeder's program / lines... And since most cat owners don't want to deal w/ males spraying and females going into heat...it makes sense to me.

I wish that dogs were the same way. I'd love to own a doberman one day and know that my first will be a "pet" only, but it would be nice to have the option to show an altered dog just for the ring experience with handling if nothing else (I really wouldn't want to jump into buying a breeding bitch right off).

Art
post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisCat View Post
Because the HHP class is supposed to be altered, extra toes are permitted and some judges are even partial to them
Or you could even move to NZ where the cat fancy has ALLOWED Maine Coons to be shown with multiple toes....
post #17 of 29
I've shown my polydactyl Maine Coon in HHP class. At the shows I've been to there is another person who always shows several American Curls with extra toes in HHP too. We mostly have CFA shows here so the polydactyls aren't allowed. There was one TICA show close enough and I showed my Maine Coon in the 'New Traits' class but it was a little boring because she was the only one. I was glad to be able to show her as a Maine Coon for once but it was not as interesting as when we actually are competing.
post #18 of 29
Polys are allowed in any association - but only in the HHP classes (CFA, ACFA, etc.)
post #19 of 29
I think the dog fancy has a long way to go. I agree having a mutt class is a great idea. However, there are several options for pet owners to compete in AKC events as pets for titles. UKC is alsoa great organization for this and UKC in my opinion is my in line with the average pet owner.

As for HHP, I love it. My first show was with a neutered HHP male and he got Master in one show and I was hooked.
Daisy
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Polys are allowed in any association - but only in the HHP classes (CFA, ACFA, etc.)
I know but I was talking about MCO's which aren't
post #21 of 29
My understanding is that the breed alter class(es) can be just as competitive as the other since many alters are retired breeders that already have granded or championed in the regular class. So the alter class is not just made up of cats that didn't quite measure up for use as breeders. Is this right?

I think it may also weed out people who thought they wanted to show and go into breeding but once they try it and find out what it takes they drop out.

I used to show salukis and whippets. Most dog breeders feel that a dog is either show quality or it's not. To dog breeders show quality and breeding quality are usually the samething. If it's not then it is petted out.
post #22 of 29
When the alter classes were first established (this from comments from judges) - they were ones that didn't measure up. Now a lot of judges comment about the quality being better then the championship cats.

You are right - a lot of them (especially the Persians, Maine Coons, Burmese, and Brits) are retired breeding cats that have at least championed or granded and are not back in the show ring as an alter.

Sometimes I feel that's not quite fair..... I just have more fun with the alters and don't have to worry about calling females or males that want to breed everything in sight
post #23 of 29
I doubt if the purebred kennel clubs will ever allow s/n or mixed breeds in the conformation at dog shows. It just seems really unlikely. I also don't really understand why they started allowing them in the cat shows, the only reason I can think of is because it can be really difficult to show unaltered cats, more so than dogs. I love that they allow them in the cat shows though, and especially the HHP category is great!
The AKC does allow s/n purebreds to compete in any category except conformation though and they recently put out a survey asking owners if they thought they should allow s/n mixed breeds to compete in those categories as well. Hopefully they will decide to allow mixes to compete!

I have been to several special kind of dog shows where they actually had a "conformation" category for mixed breed and purebred dogs with no qualifications necessary. One was the H.E.L.P. Household Pet Show and one was the Great American Mutt Show. I love those shows! They did not judge on breed standards and had a lot of fun categories. The Household Pet show had a separate judging for mixed breed conformation and purebred and the judging for both of those was similar to the way they just the HHP class for cats. The Mutt Show IIRC did both purebreds and mutts in the same category but only the mutts were allowed to win Best in Show, the purebreds could win 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc though. Both shows also had other categories you could enter like things about appearance (largest/smallest dog, etc) and things like Best Trick, Dog/Owner lookalike, and other categories. We won prizes and ribbons for placing in the different categories.
post #24 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KittiesHasMe View Post
My understanding is that the breed alter class(es) can be just as competitive as the other since many alters are retired breeders that already have granded or championed in the regular class. So the alter class is not just made up of cats that didn't quite measure up for use as breeders. Is this right?

I think it may also weed out people who thought they wanted to show and go into breeding but once they try it and find out what it takes they drop out.

I used to show salukis and whippets. Most dog breeders feel that a dog is either show quality or it's not. To dog breeders show quality and breeding quality are usually the samething. If it's not then it is petted out.
Not all "show/breeding" quality dogs are bred tho. Some people put dogs up in the ring just to show what their dogs have produced... granted there's always the possability of breeding the dogs, but not always.


I know there are non-conformation events... UKC allows mixes to compete in non-conformation events, they offer an ILP listing for all altered dogs. I beleive they also allow mixes in Jr Handling as well.. but Jr Showmanship is about judging the handler's abilities.. not the dog.

My Crested was sold to me as a pet because "he doesnt have the furnishings that's preferred in the ring".. he's very nice for a true hairless.. if there was an alter class, I'd put him up in the ring for the fun, to see how he compares. Not many people like to show trues.. they prefer the hairier Cresteds that have the flashy furnishings. I'd like the experience of showing, but I dont really want to deal with keeping an intact animal.
post #25 of 29
I think the main reason for a cat alter class is that a lot of people want to show cats, but aren't willing to put up with an intact cat. Intact dogs are not nearly as obnoxious as intact cats. You can live with a unneutered dog for his entire life, but it's rare for an indoor cat (even a breeding tom) to remain intact for more than a couple years.
post #26 of 29
Thread Starter 
intact dogs can be pretty obnoxious too.

However I think the most annoying thing on earth would have to be a female cat in heat!
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by nekkiddoglady View Post
intact dogs can be pretty obnoxious too.

However I think the most annoying thing on earth would have to be a female cat in heat!
They can be really annoying. However when Roxy went into heat right before she was supposed to be spayed, all she did was act more affectionate and walk around the house going, "prrrow? prrrow?" No yowling or trying to escape or irritating the other cats or anything.
post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by nekkiddoglady View Post
intact dogs can be pretty obnoxious too.

However I think the most annoying thing on earth would have to be a female cat in heat!
Most of the obnoxious behaviors associated with an intact dog are training issues. Many people have very well-behaved show dogs; there's not reason to let your intact dog be obnoxious. Of course most pet dogs should still be altered anyway.

Cats in heat are a pain, but I do think an intact male cat is THE most obnoxious thing! Unless it's a Siamese female in heat..... .
post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekochan View Post
They can be really annoying. However when Roxy went into heat right before she was supposed to be spayed, all she did was act more affectionate and walk around the house going, "prrrow? prrrow?" No yowling or trying to escape or irritating the other cats or anything.
Two of my girls are in heat at the moment - Flutterby (2) and Fluffy (11 months) Flutterby has already had 10 kittens in the last 12 months and Fluffy's in the middle of her show career. My kitten Tales (14 weeks) is perplexed by the behaviour of these two!
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