Is it time to legalize?

I don't think that legalization of all drugs is a good thing. Some drugs such as meth cause real damage to the property where the drug is manufactured. That leaves many a rental and motel owner with thousands of dollars of cleanup costs and in some areas it actually goes on the title of the property for a certain amount of years.

I do think that some of the more non-violent drugs such as weed, shrooms, and peyote could be legalized without too much trouble. Why not start with these and then if that works, move on to some of the other drugs?

Yes and they can legalize murder also, entirely to many people are in jail for murder, think how much money the Feds and the States could save.

Please don't tell me it is a victimless crime because it is not.

I'm sorry, I do not want hundreds of tons of drugs pouring in from south of the border because people do not want the expense of border control.

I really have mixed feelings on this.

I've been a proponent of legalizing marijuana for a long, long time. No, I don't use. I've never used on anywhere near a regular basis, just occasional growing up use (late high school & college). :smoke: With MS, there is a debate as to the efficacy of MJ to alleviate or at least make the pain and muscle spasms bearable, with a majority of those who have tried it agreeing that it is beneficial. Even my father, who is about the most staunch (traditional) conservative I've ever known said that if one doctor would have said that it could have helped Mom during her chemo and battle with cancer, he would have done anything to get it for her. I also know that there's a lot of propaganda out there about how terrible it is, how addictive it is, how it destroys everything and everyone who touches it, that I know isn't all true.

But the harder drugs - the meth, cocaine, heroin - those just scare me. Good reason why I never tried anything harder than pot, wouldn't have if it had been offered and I certainly didn't go looking for them. Even the mind-altering drugs - LSD, peyote, shrooms - those scared me enough not to try them when they were offered. And contrary to all the propaganda films from my school days, I was never ridiculed or pressured into trying any of it. Funny how that worked.

So should they be legalized? On one hand, we could easily solve a number of problems by legalizing them. The whole drug trade, drug wars, gangs dealing to make money, border drug wars, as well as freeing up a ton of police resources to go after other criminals. Not to mention if it's legal you can tax it and that would be a HUGE boom to the economy right there. We could take a big chunk out of the National Debt in a matter of 5 years.

On the other...those are scary substances. If they are trying to make smoking cigarettes a taboo, they would have a serious hissy fit over these drugs! They are addictive; they do impair the ability to drive and work; there are serious health implications and possible death involved with most of them. But at the same time, the same can be said of alcohol. However, with alcohol it's pretty easy to do a field sobriety and breathalyzer test on the spot. I don't think you can do the same with many of those drugs. I mean, you can tell someone's impaired but not necessarily what they're on. That would add a whole lot to the police's workload right there.

So that said...I just don't know.

^ We're probably very close in views on this subject.

I've always wondered. What makes drugs so evil when tobacco and alcohol are ok? They've led to deaths and ruined lives. Why should it be accepted that it's ok to go out and drink on Friday nights, to celebrating by getting one's self so smashed they can't even remember anything?

How's this any worse than what marijuana and lighter drugs do?

Ban it all or stop being hypocritical.


And to make it clear, my moral values may be a bit different/open than most people's but I do not even view the occasional alcoholic drink as ok, though I do not impose my beliefs on those around me (other than grumbling at DH). It's your choice is you want to harm yourself in such way, don't expect sympathy for it.

Actually, marijuana is NOT addictive like cigarettes - it is the nicotine in cigarettes that is addictive, and marijuana doesn't have nicotine.

Marijuana has too many benefits for too many people. It is not a dangerous or addictive substance, like cigarettes and alcohol. It is not worth the expense of fighting the drug war against it, and I think it should be legalized period.

Other drugs that have potential medical benefits should not necessarily be legalized, but the FDA/DEA should at least let universities and medical institutions doing legitimate studies procure them through legal channels (like license someone, same way they do pot in States where it is legal for for medical purposes) and perform the studies. Psilocybin is proving a very effective (and safe) treatment in cluster headaches, and Harvard already published a study on it. Several other universities (including Johns Hopkins) have it in trials for various things.

Laurie

I just cannot fathom anyone thinking meth or crack or coke or heroin or anything like that should be legal. It is unthinkable to me.
I don't put pot in the above category.
But, it is not going to happen in my lifetime.

Medicinal pot is legal in Nevada but you still can't buy it legally, go figure.
When I was going through Chemo they told me if I needed to use pot that I would need to go buy it on the street. I kid you not, they told me that.

100%

Marijuana is not physically addictive, but like anything else it can be psychologically addictive. Of course, there are health risks if you do smoke it such as the tar and other impurities. But if it's ingested other ways - tea, baked, etc. that alleviates those issues. There are already synthetic versions of THC approved by the FDA, but those do not work as well for medicinal purposes as the actual plant. Come on...it's a PLANT! You don't have to process it for it to be effective. I guess that's probably where I would really draw the line - if it's natural and does not require additional processing, then it should be legal. Alcohol requires a lot more processing than marijuana, shrooms, peyote do. Those are just dried.

I do think that there are likely medicinal uses for most of these chemicals IF we would be allowed to test them and control the use. We know some of the advantages of THC - alleviates pain, relaxes muscles, increases appetites for chemo and AIDS patients. Some other "drugs" are being investigated, as Laurie said, for ailments that don't have good treatments currently. Morphine has obvious medical uses, but it can also be abused and is from the same derivative as heroin (as they are both opiates, same as oxycodone, hydrocodone, etc.). Who's to say that heroin or cocaine don't have some amazing medical use that we haven't tapped because of the drug laws that prohibit testing and analysis of them?

I have to say, if the uses are for the possible benefit of people, i.e. medical research, and not just for recreational use I would have much less of an issue with legalization.

Cindy that is insane! I know that medical marijuana is legal in Colorado too, but I'm not sure how one goes about acquiring it. I think you are allowed to grow a certain number of plants after registering with the state with the doctor's prescription for it, and you are allowed a certain amount without penalty. When Mom was going through chemo, it was 100% illegal.

Of course, it is still illegal federally. So even though the state allows it, if you transport it across state lines or if you have too much, they can still get you.

Pot? Legalize it. If you trace back on the history of why it was illegalized in the first place, there is no sense to it. In part it was caught up in the hysteria of prohibition. Then after prohibition was lifted, the alcohol industries kept up the hysteria against pot. Ever see the movie Reefer Madness? And as time moved on, cotton farmers kept up the protest because hemp was a competitor of their crop.

Now our jails are clogged full of people that either smoked or dealed pot. You want to cut the nation's budget? Legalize pot.

I don't support legalization of other drugs, but would support the controlled use of them for medical purposes. Morphine is illegal on the street, but used often in medical situations.

When we lost our friend Chuck last year to chemo, he was prescribed medical marijuana. He claimed it was lame and went out on the street to buy stronger stuff. He was visiting our house one time and it was entirely weird when he lit up a joint. Hadn't seen or smelled the stuff in years. Yes, I closed the curtains and did my best not to freak out.

well, for me, it's because they're illegal.
that said - the reason tobacco & alcohol [& aspirin, for that matter] are currently legal is because way back when, the government didn't feel it necessary to 'nursemaid' us as much as it does today. since they've always [barring prohibition] been legal, it'd be really hard to criminalize them at this point.
i wouldn't have any issues w/marijuana use if said use were legal. i can also see the reasons for legalizing it.
my uncle used marijuana during the last stages of his cancer. it was prescribed by his oncologist - don't know where/how he obtained it, tho - do you suppose the drugstore filled it? btw, he was a resident of louisiana.

I thought that the biggest reason pot was banned and made illegal was because of William Randolph Hearst. He was afraid that hemp would take over and replace cotton. Or something like that.
Anyone else care to elaborate?

So you have no other thoughts on the matter other than what someone else has decided for you? Do you not question anything?
If alcohol was banned tomorrow and marijuana legalized, you'd be perfectly ok with that? No questions, just go along with someone else's ruling?

(I thought you were an INTJ ? we tend to question or ignore/break meaningless rules. Strictly adhering to them makes you sound more like an ISTJ who are all about rules! )

Unfortunately, even if you don't feel this way, a lot of people do. They need someone else to tell them what to think and must follow along... So even getting marijuana legalized may be an issue after years of propaganda against it.

i think my feelings have more to do w/my faith than my personality type.
to some extent, i'm all for rule breaking/changing - if i feel those rules are silly, stupid, etc. so, if it were legal, then i might feel/believe that changes might be in order - but i wouldn't 'break' those rules in total disregard of the law w/o a really good cause - or, at least, what i feel to be a really good cause.
thus, i feel that, since abortion is currently legal, we must abide by this... even tho, morally, i think it's wrong. instead of bombing the clinics, persecuting the doctors, we should work to change society's viewpoint of what is/isn't acceptable behavior towards the unborn.
it's not really an equivalent, but it's similar insofar as legalities are concerned.

I'm all for legalizing most of it. Marijuana is way harmless than cigarettes, and to me alcohol and cocaine are about equally damaging. The other stuff, I just don't know enough about. I'm sure most people cringe at the thought of making alcohol and cigarettes illegal, and most probably think of those exagerrated fiction works like 1984 where there is no personal freedom, but on the other hand everyone sees marijuana being illegal as normal. I see a contradiction there.

I'm in favor of legalizing marijuana. Grow it on American farms by American farmers, license it and tax it like alcohol. Use the money saved on marijuana control and drug-related crime to close the borders to drugs and illegal aliens and to fight the really bad stuff. Use the licensing fees and taxes to reduce the deficit.

I'm not even going to argue one way or the other whether it's more or less addicting, more or less evil than alcohol or tobacco. I'm not even going to argue whether or not it's a victimless crime or not. Of course marijuana use has some consequences to society. This is one of those deals where we're not going to stop it. The resources spent on it now are all out of proportion to the results. We might as well regulate it and tax it and use the income from that to offset the consequences for the marijuana, and focus the rest of the resources where even a little success can make a lot of difference.

I think at the very least, marijuana should be legalized. That is the "drug" of choice for a good majority of people who do use drugs. The Netherlands decriminalized it and there have been no major problems. You can go into a coffee house, order a coffee or beer, light up a joint or eat a space cake, no one will look at Amsterdam and say that the place is overrun with violent pot heads. I think the hard drugs such as LSD, heroin, meth, PCP, etc... should be banned. I think if marijuana was regulated in the same way alcohol or tobacco is, there would be no problems. The only thing I would be wary of is all the additives and chemicals they would put into mass produced weed. If they would leave out those chemicals and additives( it really needs no additives) then I would be more supportive of a plan like that. As to it being a victimless crime, I agree, I have used it for a couple years now, and I can say that the worst withdrawal symptoms are a mild caffeine withdrawal effect.

In California, you can actually get it from vending machines

There are a whole bunch of reasons, but one is Harry Anslinger back in the 1920s and 30s was trying to get rid of illegal Mexican aliens. His biggest opponent was New York mayor Fiorella Laguardia who actually did a funded independant study and the result was marijuana useage did not cause violent or psychotic behavior nor did it cause addiction( mind you, this was back in the 30's, when the whole "reefer madness" hysteria was in full swing). Personally, the WORST effects of marijuana I have seen was some slight paranoia and the munchies.

What??? Where??? Never seen it...

IMO, it's way past the time to legalize marijuana. There are enough studies out there that indicates it to be WAY less harmful than cigarettes and alcohol, both physically, and sociologically (in the case of alcohol). There are simply no angry potheads - if pot was legal, I think the world would be a much more peaceful place. IMO, it is illegal more because of a taboo than anything else.
Pot has also many valid medicinal uses, from helping with appetite and nausea for cancer, aids, and serious gastric problems, to helping with glaucoma and migraines... There are also studies that indicates it is a good "tool" in helping preventing Alzheimer's. I don't understand the double standard for this - it is legal in certain states for medicinal use, but illegal for recreational purposes?
IMO, it should be grown and sold legally, but the DWI laws need to apply to that as well.
Besides pot and mushrooms, I don't think the others should be legalized. They cause way too much health damages to justify. Meth and Coke, and heroin are too dangerous and cause severe physical damage.
Here are some statistics to think about it:

Social Indicator \tComparison________________Year__USA______Netherlands
Lifetime prevalence of marijuana use (ages 12+)_2001_36.9%____17.0%
Past month prevalence of marijuana use (12+)__2001__5.4%_____3.0%
Lifetime prevalence of heroin use (ages 12+)____2001__1.4%_____0.4%
Incarceration Rate per 100,000 population______2002__701______100
Per capita spending on criminal justice system___1998__€379_____€223
Homicide rate per 100,000 population______1999-2001__5.56_____1.51 (Average)

Also:
"There were 2.4 drug-related deaths per million inhabitants in the Netherlands in 1995. In France this figure was 9.5, in Germany 20, in Sweden 23.5 and in Spain 27.1. According to the 1995 report of the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction in Lisbon, the Dutch figures are the lowest in Europe. The Dutch AIDS prevention programme was equally successful. Europe-wide, an average of 39.2% of AIDS victims are intravenous drug-users. In the Netherlands, this percentage is as low as 10.5%."

I think these numbers speak for themselves?

Those numbers are pretty old. How long has it been legal in the Netherlands? I'm wondering if there are any newer numbers? Statistics lose their validity as they age, and if the period measured was a short one. Was there a U.S. number for the last data set -- drug-related deaths? That would be interesting, too. Sweden's and Spain's seemed high. I wonder why.

We have a cafe in downtown Toronto where folks with medical permission can go to smoke their weed. They were having some difficulty though with people who were going there that did not have medical conditions.

I grew up with an alcoholic father and I would have given anything to have him smoking pot rather than drinking. I have an occasional glass of wine but his drinking turned me off alcohol and I don't want to be around people who drink too much.

So from my experience alone, I would ban alcohol and legalize marijuana.

I agree the numbers are old, but I find hard to believe the US numbers have come down much. Maybe AIDS has, but I doubt the others... I will need to loo into it. The Netherlands has the lower numbers in average than the other countries in Europe too...

I would favor legalizing marijuana. I find it less scary, as drugs go, than alcohol.

However, meth, cocaine and some of other opiate deriviatives I am not a fan of. I am not sure I would like to see them legalized.

Thanks. I for one would find recent data interesting. For one thing, it hasn't been legal for that long in those states mentioned above.

I tried to get some numbers, but it seems that as far as reliable data, this is all that's out there. I will look closer.
I also know that they do have a separation of "soft drugs" and "hard drugs". The hard drugs are illegal, while the soft drugs can only be purchased and used in licensed coffee shops. If you are caught on the streets smoking pot in Amsterdam, you would get a ticket, equivalent to a parking ticket in the US. I have a feeling that this is done so that the government can control taxation on the sold soft drugs (pot, mushroom, hashish, etc.). For the hard drugs, they have a free syringe program, to prevent the transmission of AIDS.
SO, they don't have completely legality on drugs, it is more a controlled use kind of deal. It is interesting... I think a pretty safe approach, IMO.
Maybe that's why people in there ride bikes so much - I wonder how many are caught driving under the influence around these coffee shops!

They ride bikes there because getting a license and car isn't as simple or cheap as it is here. One must learn to drive from a driving school and then the license itself is a couple thousand dollars. It has absolutely nothing to do with anyone using drugs.

It would be highly inconvenient if they had to drive everwhere though. It's inconvenient here in the US when you go out and can't drink b/c then u have to drive IMO. It's annoying. I personally would prefer to ride a bike if the distances weren't so huge here.

That was a joke - that's why I put the laughing smiley face in there... however, I still think riding bikes is a better idea when leaving the coffee shops , for whatever reason that may be.

^ Joke or not, it's ridiculous what they have to go through to get a license. Then there's insurance which cost a lot there, so most don't bother.

We can all agree we'd rather have someone under the influence on a bike than driving a car. However, depending on the police encountered, if drunk some will still try to get you for public intox. No idea if anyone gets that sort of charge if they're stoned out of their gourd and out on the street, I've never heard of my friends mentioning anything other than being harassed after drinking and trying to go home.