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11 year old boy charged as adult?

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,498984,00.html

They are trying to get him moved to the juvenile system. I'm not sure how I feel about this. What he did was wrong and he should be punished, but he is 11 years old. Is the adult prison system really the place for him? Most 11 year olds aren't even responsible enough to stay home alone. I'm not sure someone that immature should be held against the same guidelines as an adult who commits a crime like this.
post #2 of 23
This is so messed up.

I can't get past the fact that this boy's father gave him a freakin' shotgun for Christmas......a real shotgun. And this boy had recently been exhiting signs of jealousy and had threatened this woman? And he had a shotgun all his very own that he could put his hands on?!?!?

Messed up kids with guns. Great.
post #3 of 23
At 11 years old they know the difference between right and wrong. I'm sick of kids committing heinous acts and using their age as an excuse to get a hand slap.

It's about time that the law took a hard stance with these kids and punish them accordingly.
post #4 of 23
From what I got from the article is that juveniles can't be charged with criminal homicide, so that is why they are trying him as an adult. That and the fact that juvenile records are sealed after they are an adult. That doesn't mean that he will be sent to a max-security prison and thrown in with Brutus. It just means he commited a serious crime that isn't typical of his age and it needs to go on his record.

Personally, If convicted as an adult, I think he will probably spend YEARS in a psych facility, which is where he needs to be. He has some serious issues.

I don't know if he planned the murder, but he was certainly thinking...why else would he cover the gun so no one else could see it when he went down to shoot his dad's girl friend...in her sleep. And then hop on the bus with her 7 yr old daughter like nothing happened? Either he really needs help in a psych facility, or he is past help. I personally think something like this should go on the permenant record which is why they are trying to get him tried as an adult.

As for the gun thing...the article was from Pittsburg, but a lot of surrounding area around Pittsburg is rural, and teaching a young child to use a shot gun is not uncommon. Should the father have been more aware of his son's feelings? Sure....but how many fathers are actually going to think that their son is going to shoot his girlfriend because he "doesn't like her"? Hind sight is 20/20.
post #5 of 23
I think he should be kept with other youthful offenders until he reaches whatever age adulthood is in his state, then transferred to adult facility. In the jail where I work, we don't really house anyone under 16, don't know how it would be handled if something like this happened in our community. I am surprised they are not charging the father with something; I'm sure he would have had to take some kind of responsibility if his son had damaged another person's property.
post #6 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanner View Post
This is so messed up.

I can't get past the fact that this boy's father gave him a freakin' shotgun for Christmas......a real shotgun. And this boy had recently been exhiting signs of jealousy and had threatened this woman? And he had a shotgun all his very own that he could put his hands on?!?!?

Messed up kids with guns. Great.

Exactly...shouldn't 11yo kids get pellet guns or bb guns - not shotguns.
post #7 of 23
[quote=nurseangel;2569766]I think he should be kept with other youthful offenders until he reaches whatever age adulthood is in his state, then transferred to adult facility./QUOTE]

I always thought that was how it worked. They would go to a juvenile facility until they reached 18, then be moved.

I think it's right to charge him as an adult, but he should get a minimum [or close to] sentence that an adult would be served. Like others said, by 11 you know full well it's wrong to shoot someone. He should be punished, and this should be on his criminal record for life. However, he IS still a child in a sense that his brain is still 10 years off from being fully developed and children do not have the ability to really connect their actions with the consequences. He needs many many years of psychiatric help more so than a full prison sentence.

As far as giving a shotgun to a kid...my brothers all had "their very own" shotgun by that age, but it was locked away in my dads gun cabinet with my dad having the only keys. [They had their own guns to go hunting with Dad.] At the very least the father should be charged with some sort of reckless endangerment for leaving guns within reach of children.
post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteforest View Post

As far as giving a shotgun to a kid...my brothers all had "their very own" shotgun by that age, but it was locked away in my dads gun cabinet with my dad having the only keys. [They had their own guns to go hunting with Dad.] At the very least the father should be charged with some sort of reckless endangerment for leaving guns within reach of children.
I have to qualify my previous statement by saying that I am extremely anti-gun....I hate them - but that's for another topic. I cannot get into discussions about guns because I become very emotional about it.

I fully understand the right of people to own guns, and I believe your dad did what should be done, if one is to give guns to kids. Lock them away, and handle it responsibly.

The fact that this child had ready access to his gun, and ammo, is appalling and unspeakable to me.
post #9 of 23
When I belonged to the gun club there were several kids that were taught how to use firearms and were disiplined Jr. competitors in the sport they shot. Why isn't there ever any positive press on the ones who are responsible.

There's lots of kids who are raised with firearms and taught how to use them properly. Especially in the rural areas of this country.

The parents should lock the guns up in the safe until the kid gets old enough to legally buy a gun and the parents should be held accountable.
post #10 of 23
This is very sad for all involved. I believe the little 4 year old girl went outside to find someone to help? Her life has been changed forever, too.

I have never understood the whole gonna-buy-my-kid-a-gun-so-he'll-be-a-man mindset. There are so many other ways to prove manhood, why with a lethal weapon?
post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
At 11 years old they know the difference between right and wrong. I'm sick of kids committing heinous acts and using their age as an excuse to get a hand slap.

It's about time that the law took a hard stance with these kids and punish them accordingly.


I think another way of saying that is that we shouldn't go easy on kids when they commit violent crimes, because a slap on the wrists will only teach them that they can get away with whatever they did.

Sure, the kid's dad screwed up by giving him a gun. The dad is an accessory to murder, I'd say. Besides, giving a kid a gun just says that killing is OK. Bleh...
post #12 of 23
I think he should remain in the juvenile justice system. They need to look at the movies and video games he was allowed to watch as well as investigate his past behavior, not to mention his upbringing. Was dad a "hunter/gung-ho" macho type, or was the child taught the proper respect for life and for guns?? Does the child have clinical psychopathic tendencies??
As for guns, I was shooting since I was 7yo.
Until I find out more about the kid's past behavior, I will need to hold judgment. I wonder if he was a bully
post #13 of 23
I think juveniles should be tried as juveniles. That is what they are, and that is how they should be treated. Lawyers/judges shouldn't be able to just decide when/for whom the junenile system is made for. There is a reason that children are not allowed to vote, drink, drive, smoke, buy porn, etc, until a certain age. We don't make exceptions to those rules, and we shouldn't make exceptions just because it suits us.

From what I understand, a major difference between being tried as a juvenile and being tried as an adult is that, in an adult trial, there is a jury. I really think this decision needs to be made by a judge, not by a jury.

That's not to say that I think this boy should be given a slap on the wrist. However, we don't know the child's background or the circumstances under which he committed this crime. These need to be taken into consideration and proper punishment and rehabilition (if deemed possible) should be sentenced. I don't necessarily think an individual should spend the rest of their life in prison for something they did when they are 12. If an appropriate punishment for violent crimes is not possible in the juvenile system, then there is probably a reason for that. However, if it is universally agreed that nothing more than a "slap on the wrist" can be given, then perhaps it is time to re-vamp the law book. Not decide to use a different law book because the one that is appropriate for the age of the child doesn't suit our personal opinion.

Also, this child may be 12 now. However, if he is tried as an adult and tried by a jury, that jury will be judging the 15 year old boy sitting in the courtroom 3 years from now (once the case finally gets to trial), and not the 12 year old boy who committed the crime. 3 years doesn't make much of a difference when you're an adult...but it makes one heck of a difference in the midst of adolecent puberty.
post #14 of 23
The child is not properly socialized, in some way mentally ill, because that is SO beyond "acting out." I think what he did needs to be on a permanent record, so not tried as a juvenile. He went to the pains to hide the gun and toss the shell, which they're using as "premeditated," but which to me just means he knew what he did was wrong. There's no way to know what is going on with him now, but if he feels no remorse, the kid is a psychopath and needs to be hospitalized for treatment, though that is likely the case anyway in expressing anger or jealousy in this fashion.

Laurie
post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsknowme View Post
I think he should remain in the juvenile justice system. They need to look at the movies and video games he was allowed to watch as well as investigate his past behavior, not to mention his upbringing. Was dad a "hunter/gung-ho" macho type, or was the child taught the proper respect for life and for guns?? Does the child have clinical psychopathic tendencies??
As for guns, I was shooting since I was 7yo.
Until I find out more about the kid's past behavior, I will need to hold judgment. I wonder if he was a bully

Your last question is a good one catsknowme, I would love to know the answer to that one.
post #16 of 23
The child should be charged in a manner that has him locked up in psych for as long as it takes for him to rehabilitate from this incident, which may be never. The FATHER should be charged as an ADULT by proxy for the crime. Honestly, what kind of sick parenting is that???????? A gun and ammo. available to an 11 year old at all times?!?!?! SICK. This is why guns in houses with children should require at the very least LOCKED cabinets (do they?!?!). And it should be regimented by the government because clearly you can't trust the parents to do whats right and responsible, sometimes the stupider population who allow their kids access to guns unsupervised need to be protected from themselves. What a waste.
post #17 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoeysmom View Post
I think juveniles should be tried as juveniles. That is what they are, and that is how they should be treated. Lawyers/judges shouldn't be able to just decide when/for whom the junenile system is made for. There is a reason that children are not allowed to vote, drink, drive, smoke, buy porn, etc, until a certain age. We don't make exceptions to those rules, and we shouldn't make exceptions just because it suits us.

From what I understand, a major difference between being tried as a juvenile and being tried as an adult is that, in an adult trial, there is a jury. I really think this decision needs to be made by a judge, not by a jury.

That's not to say that I think this boy should be given a slap on the wrist. However, we don't know the child's background or the circumstances under which he committed this crime. These need to be taken into consideration and proper punishment and rehabilition (if deemed possible) should be sentenced. I don't necessarily think an individual should spend the rest of their life in prison for something they did when they are 12. If an appropriate punishment for violent crimes is not possible in the juvenile system, then there is probably a reason for that. However, if it is universally agreed that nothing more than a "slap on the wrist" can be given, then perhaps it is time to re-vamp the law book. Not decide to use a different law book because the one that is appropriate for the age of the child doesn't suit our personal opinion.

Also, this child may be 12 now. However, if he is tried as an adult and tried by a jury, that jury will be judging the 15 year old boy sitting in the courtroom 3 years from now (once the case finally gets to trial), and not the 12 year old boy who committed the crime. 3 years doesn't make much of a difference when you're an adult...but it makes one heck of a difference in the midst of adolecent puberty.
Excellent post, thank you!

I think there is a difference between a 17 year old committing a crime and be tried as an adult, and an ELEVEN year old. They need to keep in mind that this is just a kid. Yes, he is old enough to know right and wrong, but I don't think he is old enough to really understand it and that actions have consequences. Yes, he should be punished. Yes, he should probably have a psych evaluation and appropriate treatment. But I do not think he should be thrown in prison for the rest of his life.

I can't help but think how my own son was at age 11. He was still just a baby.
post #18 of 23
his is so so sad!This is exactly why parents need to talk to thier children more!I make sure every night when my kids are getting ready for bed to take time with each child and talk about thhier day and thier feelings and I always encourage them to be open about how they feel!It is so sad that this little boy felt he had no other option than to kill this woman??he must have been lacking somerhing in his relationship with his father.My 11 year old gets mad sure!but for one I don't even allow toy guns let alone real ones!My husband does have guns but they are safely locked up and only HE (my husband) has the key.It is really really sad!My 11 year old doesn't fully understand life and death and he is a very smart boy (he is recognized by the state as gifted) and of course he has heard about this little boy and we talked about it and he said he would be scared to shoot a gun and it would make him too sad to even think about hurting someone.I think this little boy does need to be punished but I think his homw life also needs to be closely looked into, it is irrisponsible parenting to give your child a gun at that age and access to bullets!It should have bneen kept locked up unless he was with an adult.This child needs help!It is so sad!
post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
At 11 years old they know the difference between right and wrong. I'm sick of kids committing heinous acts and using their age as an excuse to get a hand slap.

It's about time that the law took a hard stance with these kids and punish them accordingly.
I agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
From what I got from the article is that juveniles can't be charged with criminal homicide, so that is why they are trying him as an adult. That and the fact that juvenile records are sealed after they are an adult. That doesn't mean that he will be sent to a max-security prison and thrown in with Brutus. It just means he commited a serious crime that isn't typical of his age and it needs to go on his record.

Personally, If convicted as an adult, I think he will probably spend YEARS in a psych facility, which is where he needs to be. He has some serious issues.

I don't know if he planned the murder, but he was certainly thinking...why else would he cover the gun so no one else could see it when he went down to shoot his dad's girl friend...in her sleep. And then hop on the bus with her 7 yr old daughter like nothing happened? Either he really needs help in a psych facility, or he is past help. I personally think something like this should go on the permenant record which is why they are trying to get him tried as an adult.

As for the gun thing...the article was from Pittsburg, but a lot of surrounding area around Pittsburg is rural, and teaching a young child to use a shot gun is not uncommon. Should the father have been more aware of his son's feelings? Sure....but how many fathers are actually going to think that their son is going to shoot his girlfriend because he "doesn't like her"? Hind sight is 20/20.
The same thing happened in our area several years ago. A 15 year old killed his mother. He was charged as an adult but spent several years in a juvenile facility, he is now in an adult prison, he will be there for many many many more years. It is just so sad, but children need to be punished when they do something wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nurseangel View Post
I think he should be kept with other youthful offenders until he reaches whatever age adulthood is in his state, then transferred to adult facility. In the jail where I work, we don't really house anyone under 16, don't know how it would be handled if something like this happened in our community. I am surprised they are not charging the father with something; I'm sure he would have had to take some kind of responsibility if his son had damaged another person's property.
I also think the father should be charged with something, but I bet he doesn't

Quote:
Originally Posted by WELDRWOMN View Post
Exactly...shouldn't 11yo kids get pellet guns or bb guns - not shotguns.
Yep

[quote=whiteforest;2570203]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nurseangel View Post
I think he should be kept with other youthful offenders until he reaches whatever age adulthood is in his state, then transferred to adult facility./QUOTE]

That is what happened to the young man in our area

I always thought that was how it worked. They would go to a juvenile facility until they reached 18, then be moved.

I think it's right to charge him as an adult, but he should get a minimum [or close to] sentence that an adult would be served. Like others said, by 11 you know full well it's wrong to shoot someone. He should be punished, and this should be on his criminal record for life. However, he IS still a child in a sense that his brain is still 10 years off from being fully developed and children do not have the ability to really connect their actions with the consequences. He needs many many years of psychiatric help more so than a full prison sentence.

As far as giving a shotgun to a kid...my brothers all had "their very own" shotgun by that age, but it was locked away in my dads gun cabinet with my dad having the only keys. [They had their own guns to go hunting with Dad.] At the very least the father should be charged with some sort of reckless endangerment for leaving guns within reach of children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowqueensdaddy View Post


I think another way of saying that is that we shouldn't go easy on kids when they commit violent crimes, because a slap on the wrists will only teach them that they can get away with whatever they did.

Sure, the kid's dad screwed up by giving him a gun. The dad is an accessory to murder, I'd say. Besides, giving a kid a gun just says that killing is OK. Bleh...
Children need to be punished when they do something wrong. A slap on the wrist is nothing to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoeysmom View Post
I think juveniles should be tried as juveniles. That is what they are, and that is how they should be treated. Lawyers/judges shouldn't be able to just decide when/for whom the junenile system is made for. There is a reason that children are not allowed to vote, drink, drive, smoke, buy porn, etc, until a certain age. We don't make exceptions to those rules, and we shouldn't make exceptions just because it suits us.

From what I understand, a major difference between being tried as a juvenile and being tried as an adult is that, in an adult trial, there is a jury. I really think this decision needs to be made by a judge, not by a jury.

That's not to say that I think this boy should be given a slap on the wrist. However, we don't know the child's background or the circumstances under which he committed this crime. These need to be taken into consideration and proper punishment and rehabilition (if deemed possible) should be sentenced. I don't necessarily think an individual should spend the rest of their life in prison for something they did when they are 12. If an appropriate punishment for violent crimes is not possible in the juvenile system, then there is probably a reason for that. However, if it is universally agreed that nothing more than a "slap on the wrist" can be given, then perhaps it is time to re-vamp the law book. Not decide to use a different law book because the one that is appropriate for the age of the child doesn't suit our personal opinion.

Also, this child may be 12 now. However, if he is tried as an adult and tried by a jury, that jury will be judging the 15 year old boy sitting in the courtroom 3 years from now (once the case finally gets to trial), and not the 12 year old boy who committed the crime. 3 years doesn't make much of a difference when you're an adult...but it makes one heck of a difference in the midst of adolecent puberty.
I think that children should be punished for what they do. I also think that it depends on what they do too. Shooting someone is a lot more serious than stealing a car, or whatever. Children also learn from other children. Kinda like monkey see, monkey do. If children see other children doing something and nothing being done, then they will do the same thing if they get mad or don't like the way something is being done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlleyGirl View Post
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,498984,00.html

They are trying to get him moved to the juvenile system. I'm not sure how I feel about this. What he did was wrong and he should be punished, but he is 11 years old. Is the adult prison system really the place for him? Most 11 year olds aren't even responsible enough to stay home alone. I'm not sure someone that immature should be held against the same guidelines as an adult who commits a crime like this.
I just feel sorry for this little boy, he needs a lot of help, and I really hope he gets it. But I also feel he did something that was terrible, and he needs to be punished, and if that means he has to spend a lot of years in prison, then so be it. Children that age know right from wrong, and I believe he knew what he was doing, so he should have to pay for what he has done.
post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSULOVER View Post
I think that children should be punished for what they do. I also think that it depends on what they do too. Shooting someone is a lot more serious than stealing a car, or whatever. Children also learn from other children. Kinda like monkey see, monkey do. If children see other children doing something and nothing being done, then they will do the same thing if they get mad or don't like the way something is being done.

Never did I say this boy should not be punished. I think he should spend many years being punished. I just don't think that he should be tried in the same way that an adult who committed a similar crime is tried.

I've never been a huge fan of the "making an example" of people so that others see what will happen to them. A kid who is on the road to trouble, for the most part, is on that road regardless, unless someone intervenes for the better. I don't think some average kid is going to see this boy's case and say "hey, what a good idea...he didn't get punished, so I should do the same thing!"...hello? Yes, there are always "copycat" crimes...but I don't think the punishment the original offendent receives really has much to do with these.

Juveniles should be handled in the juvenile court system and adults in the adult court system. Otherwise, why both having two seperate system? If the juvenile system is so broken that it doesn't allow for an individual who MURDERS someone with at least some amount of forethought to receive appropriate punishement, then the system needs to be fixed.
post #21 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
At 11 years old they know the difference between right and wrong. I'm sick of kids committing heinous acts and using their age as an excuse to get a hand slap.

It's about time that the law took a hard stance with these kids and punish them accordingly.
I totally agree. I was 11 once, and I absolutely knew the difference between right and wrong. Even at a younger age than that, I knew the difference. They should lock up both the kid and his father, IMO.
post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
The child is not properly socialized, in some way mentally ill, because that is SO beyond "acting out." I think what he did needs to be on a permanent record, so not tried as a juvenile. He went to the pains to hide the gun and toss the shell, which they're using as "premeditated," but which to me just means he knew what he did was wrong. There's no way to know what is going on with him now, but if he feels no remorse, the kid is a psychopath and needs to be hospitalized for treatment, though that is likely the case anyway in expressing anger or jealousy in this fashion.

Laurie
I absolutely agree. He needs help and this does need to be on a permanent record which, if he is tried as a juvenile, that does not happen if my understanding is correct.
post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
I absolutely agree. He needs help and this does need to be on a permanent record which, if he is tried as a juvenile, that does not happen if my understanding is correct.
I think that you are correct, I also think that the punishment is different, if I am not mistaken, I think that juvenile can serve until they are of legal age, then they are released.

I think that is why they are charging him as an adult, so he can serve longer time if he is found guilty.
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