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Mandatory Birth Control for State Aid People?

post #1 of 37
Thread Starter 
I am just curious what everyones thought are on mandatory birth control for people who are on State Aid/Medicaid/Welfare? I think it should be a mandatory thing. There are too many people who have babies just for the money not for the sake of having offspring.

Here is an example that made me so mad :

A gal came to our Pharmacy a year ago and had a prescription for Clomid (fertility drugs). She dished out $50 a month for it for several months and never batted an eye. She got pregnant and with in days of knowing she was prego, she brings in her STATE AID medical card. Everything she got through us was free, even though she planned this baby knowing she could not afford it. I was outraged! If you can not afford to raise a child, then don't make them! Now, we pay for everything for her and her baby. Not only do we pay for the prescriptions, we pay for formula, food, diapers and all medical costs. Why? I just don't agree with this at all. You can bet your last dollar that the State didn't know that woman was taking fertility drugs. I think something should be done about that, but it would infringe on her privacy rights. There are lots of people who NEED this aid and who will not abuse it, but those are the people who do not get it.

Here's another good example and this is from my own family (I don't claim them at all!): Cathy was 14 when she had her first child, she is now almost 40. Last year she had her EIGHTH child! Why? Because the other kids are becoming adults and her State Aid is starting to run out. Those were her actual words...seriously! She doesn't want those kids...actually they've been taken away from her several times. For some crazy reason the State gives them back to her even though she has proved that she is unfit mother.

OK..enough of my ranting here. What is your opinion on Mandatory Birth Control?
post #2 of 37
As you all know, I'm a daycare provider. When I got licensed, I decided to sign on w/ the state program to watch state funded kids, called 'vouchers'. These are children whose parents don't make enough to pay for daycare, so the state pays for some or all of the care. I just bill the state directly.

Anyway, the majority of my clients are teenage moms, and single moms. They all get free daycare, they are all on welfare or some state assistance.......and they ALL have nice new cars and new clothes. The kids wear name brand stuff, like Nike and Adidas, and WE ARE PAYING FOR THIS WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS. This infuriates me to no avail.

I work hard for my paycheck. And these parents and children are all nice people. But, they take advantage of the safety net the gov't offers. And it isn't fair.

Yes Shell, mandatory birth control should be made into law!
post #3 of 37
Shell I am all for it!!As you know both Ted & I are out of work at no fault of our own,we bring home $300.00 a week and we can not get food stamps or mediacl care,we make to much!!!!!! Bit if we had a child we could! But every time we went up there,there were mothers up there with 3 or 4 kids and were going to have another one!I have a cousen(sp) who has 5 kids with 5 different men! And get everything you can think of from welfare!3 of the kids are black.It makes me so mad everytime I see her I want to slap her! Yet I have to get my med.s from my Dr. samples.He know's I need them so he gives me his samples.
post #4 of 37
ohhhhhhhhhhhhh that makes me SOOOOOOOOO MAD!!!!!!!!!!! Hubby and I decided to STOP trying to have a kid because we just can't afford it right now, but yet there are people getting state aid trying. We "make to much" for use to get f.a. to finsh college, we would have to take out more student loans and we already have to many of them. It is just NOT FAIR!!! It seems like when you try to do things the right way you just don't get very far! Okay that was my little rant
post #5 of 37
Thread Starter 
Glad to see I'm not the only one who is fed up with the State Aid. Almost every Medicaid person that comes to our Pharmacy, wears brand name clothes, has a cart full of junk, driving nice cars, & chatting away on the cell phones. These people have it better than the Average Joe!

BTW, I forgot to add about my cousin Cathy...The Dr. gave her a Norplant birth control implant in her arm after the 6th kid and she had the gull to CUT it out herself! She wanted more money and that meant having more kids. It's so sad to be that greedy, do ya think?
post #6 of 37
yep and I forget to say my cousin has all boys and keeps saying she is going to keep having babies intill she has a gril!
post #7 of 37
Unfortunately, mandating birth control has been ruled unconstitutional. A judge tried to order an abusive mother to be sterilized, some years ago. US citizens have a Constitutional right to breed their paychecks.

Michigan has the right idea: you get welfare, for two years plus job training and a day care subsidy. They even help with job placement and teaching people HOW to work: getting up on time, grooming and how to dress. When the two years are up, job or no job, you're off the welfare rolls. This program works.

In AZ, you can collect, for the first two kids. Any more, after two, the check doesn't increase. When the youngest child turns six, the mother has to get into job training, college or go to work. The checks, food stamps and day care subsidies continue for six months, after the mother starts working.

I don't believe that non-US citizens should get government handouts, either. EVERY able-bodied person should work and contribute to society.
post #8 of 37
this is by no means to offend someone, but what about certain religions who have huge families? From what I have understood, that this religion (if you know which one I am talking about) has so many kids because they think that when they die, they are going to become aliens or something like that on another planet....

But for people on state aid ?? I dont know .... I would think if you were responsible enought to have a child, you'd be prepared for how much it costs.
post #9 of 37
I think having a two kid limit is a great idea!! if they have more the check doesn't go up. I think that might stop alot of people. It just makes me angry because that money could be going to alot of other things that are really needed!
post #10 of 37
Thread Starter 
Slightly changing the subject, but I've dealt with a lot of people on Medicaid at our Pharmacy. It's unbelievable how much their medicines are costing US! There is a couple in their late 50's, who do not work and don't think they ever have & are on Medicaid. They get 23 prescriptions every single month! Yes, that's right...23 of them! Their bill alone is over $1000! Most of the medications they are on are not necessary and there are several medicines available at a much lower cost that they could use but they want the "best stuff". Doctors don't care, they're getting state money from the office visits. I see so much of this everyday that it gets harder and harder for me to deal with them. I think the system is totally whacked and needs a complete overhaul. I don't mind paying my share for someone who honestly needs it, but it burns my britches to pay for someone who doesn't care about it, don't need it & are proud of it. I personally think the Elderly are the ones who need the most help right now. Let those younger people get out there and work to make a living. Here's another reason why I am disappointed in the system:
My late Grandfather had a stroke when I was just born. My GrandMother worked everyday and worked 2 jobs trying to support them both. They did not have insurance except for Medicare and her paychecks went for medicine to make him well. My family convinced them to see if they could get some State Aid until they could get back on their feet. After processing their records, the lady at the office told them "I'm sorry Mr. Gates, but you're 50 cents over the guidelines and we can not help you.". Fifty cents! But yet, my cousin with the 8 kids found out she was pregnant for the 3 or 4 time and she walked out of there with food stamps and the whole nine yards. Thankfully my Mom and Dad were able to scrounge up the money to help my Grandparents out.

The whole problem with the system as it is right now (at least here in Nebraska) is that they get more money being on Medicaid than if they were to get a job. To me, this encourages people to stay on the Aid. Why would they want to get off of it? You get money for sitting on your butt doing nothing all day and get paid MORE than if you were to work.
post #11 of 37
I don't think they need birth control, I think they need sterilization! Georgia imposed a 2 child limit, (I don't know if it is still in effect) and amazingly, the birth rate dropped dramatically.
Several years ago, a doctor in SC was sterilizing welfare mothers after they gave birth. They are not sure how many he did before they found out. It turns out that an old, obscure law allowed doctors, at their discretion, to sterilize "burdens to society," the mentally retarded, and people of bad character. They quickly repealed that law, but could do nothing to the doctor. I thought they should have given him a medal, kept the law, and enforced it with a vengence. I don't think we should have any government programs to reward irresponsible behavior. If they cut out just the WIC program, they could save millions a year. I was a cashier in a grocery store in a very small town in SC, and in 1 day, just on my register, I took in $4,000, yes, FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS, in WIC vouchers. Can you imagine how much that is in 1 month all over the country?!
post #12 of 37
I totally agree with mandatory birth control for welfare mothers. Heck, give 'em a check every three months and a Depo shot before they hand over the check. There are many people who abuse the system.

A good friend of mine used the WIC program when they had their first child. Her husband worked, but had just changed jobs and for a time they couldn't afford everything. They are NOT welfare people, he has a good job now that fully supports her and their three children. In that time, though, those vouchers were fantastic. It also made sure that the baby was only getting nutritious stuff - 100% real juice, stuff like that.

Sometimes things happen that put people in a bad situation. Honestly, I don't think those people would have a problem with mandatory birth control. It's the ones who are milking the system that would have a great problem with it.

This also brings up a HUGE pet peeve of mine. Why is it that those of us who CHOOSE not to have children are pretty much discriminated against when it comes to any kind of government program? When we were completely broke, barely paying the bills, juggling between bills and groceries, I checked into sliding scale dental programs because hubby was in serious pain. Have kids? No? Sorry, can't help you. Sometimes in my calls to various local agencies, before I could even ask my question, the question of kids came up. No kids, no dice.
post #13 of 37
Mandatory birth control can't honestly be what you want.
What you want, if I interpret the previous posts correctly, is to adjust the system so it becomes more difficult to abuse the taxpayers money.

Now you askk for mandatory birth control, but if it really were to happen, you you may want to ask yourselves what would be next.
Mandatory abortion? Mandatory giving a child up for adoption if you cannot prove you have enough financial means to raise it?
Mandatory euthanasia of the baby?
Or maybe the Chinese system where a child that is born without state permission, is sort of non-existent. It is deprived of all medical care, it is not allowed to go to school and it will never get a job.

I totally understand your outrage with regards to people who seem to just breed in order to get their "money for nothing".
However i believe every decent social system (like the one you have in the US and the ones we have in Europe) will have people that try to abuse it. It is simply the price you pay for a humane democratic society.
post #14 of 37
Originally posted by valanhb
This also brings up a HUGE pet peeve of mine. Why is it that those of us who CHOOSE not to have children are pretty much discriminated against when it comes to any kind of government program? When we were completely broke, barely paying the bills, juggling between bills and groceries, I checked into sliding scale dental programs because hubby was in serious pain. Have kids? No? Sorry, can't help you. Sometimes in my calls to various local agencies, before I could even ask my question, the question of kids came up. No kids, no dice.
Same here in Canada.


I don't think you would ever see mandatory birth control for state aid people. I remember a case here in Canada, where a welfare mother who continued to get pregnant and abused drugs was taken to court. They were trying to have her take birth control, but I think the case was dropped. Meanwhile, I think she was on her third (?) child, and all of them where crack babies.

Sad situation all around.
post #15 of 37
I think Seagull made an excellent point. I don't have a problem with someone who has temporary work or financial difficulty using WIC or food stamps. A good friend of mine used WIC when she and her boyfriend, now husband, weren't making a lot of money. I'd rather my tax dollars go to feed hungry kids than build more bombs we don't need, but that's a whole other thread.

I don't like people who abuse the system. Something should be done to eliminate that, whether it's imposing a limit on number of children you can get aid for, or implementing a welfare to work program as some states have done.

There are a lot of poor families in the school where I work. When I talk with the parents, most of them work. Since I work with the immigrant population, a lot of them don't speak good English or and English. They don't get high-paying jobs but that doesn't stop them from working.
post #16 of 37
I would like to see the programs of Michigan and Arizona combined. (The ones Cindy explained) Give people a leg up, provide for the first two children only, and as soon as the job assistance program is completed, help them get their first job, get established, and go on their own. Of course a time limit would have to be set. Some people will "play" the system and find a way to beat it, of course.

Living off of the government becomes a "tradition" in some families, one that is passed down to the children, from what I understand. There should be a way to stop this. We are not helping people if we allow this to happen; we are squelching their skills and pride. Of course, I am speaking of able bodied people only, although some people fake "bad backs" very well. But that's a different subject.
post #17 of 37
I have worked with many many children who are victims of abuse and neglect. It is only these parents I would like to see neutered. I don't mind poor people having kids -- even if it is for the wrong reason -- as long as they take good care of the children. But...the minute you abuse a child or if even after working with home-care workers, you continue to neglect a child, then you should never be allowed to have children again. It breaks my heart and infuriates me at the same time when I see the same abusive mother and/or father having one child after another. I even supervise treatment of a child in foster care whose mother has had one baby each year for 10 years. It is to the point that they remove the infants as soon as they are born now, but she won't stop. This woman should be sterilized, but it will never happen.
post #18 of 37
I don't mind helping someone, who is trying to make something of themselves - actively looking for work or in a training program.

Sam is in the WIC program, as she is nursing and, with school out for the summer, she isn't earning any money and her medical benefits stopped. She, Mark and the babies are on AZ's form of Medicaid and they get $300/mo food stamps.

Mark re-broke his shoulder and the doctor won't release him to work. Sam will go back to work, in August and Mark will look for work, as soon as the doctor says that he can. Since he works construction, he can't work without a doctor's OK.

When Mark was a baby, he had to be on a special formula that cost $5/quart. If it hadn't been for the WIC program, I'd have had to put him in foster care. At the time, I was working two jobs and barely making it. That was around the time that I had my tubes tied - smartest thing that I ever did!
post #19 of 37
I'm in a situation where I definitely think reproduction rights need to be controlled. I'm a stepmom and the biological mother (BM) of our son keeps having children with different fathers in order to get tax free child support (CS) dollars. She purposely gets pregnant and then files a restraining order on the guy so she gets all his stuff (they're forced to leave the house with a change of clothes, medication, and toiletries and that's it!). Then she takes them through heck with court battles. She has also falsely reported her income ($1000 from her grandfather, $500 from one father, $500 from another father, and $2000 through her husband--each month) in order to get WIC coupons. I personally believe that women like this (who use their children as paychecks) should be sterilized. The sad part is that people who really want children can't have them and they've got to sit by and watch women like this.
post #20 of 37
An overhaul of the US welfare system is definitely in order. A government program that was intended as a "leg up" has become a generational way of life for some. When I worked at Wal-Mart, it was amazing how many people brought in the baby formula they received free through WIC for cash refunds. We finally started requiring a receipt for return.
post #21 of 37
Yep, get shot=get check.
post #22 of 37
I think it's a great idea, but seriously doubt it would actually happen. What about side effects of birth control?

This abuse of the system really makes me sick...I have a relative that has 8 kids - they believed it was their "duty" to have as many kids as possible. They never bothered to recognize their duty to pay their hospital bills for any of these children, though.

I've also run into the same discrimination about not having children. When I was younger and having a hard time finding a new job after a back injury, I could not qualify for job training or educational aid programs because I didn't have kids! Responsible people trying to better their lives BEFORE having kids are turned away in favor of the irresponsible people!
post #23 of 37
I think mandatory birth control and a two year limit are the best way to go.

I know of a person that is on her 3rd child and is fostering siblings while she and hubby are full time students. Why work when you can freeload off the system.

I have worked full time and attended school full time as has my husband.
post #24 of 37
i read somewhere once that just within the last 10 years or so, public assistance provided fertility drugs to low/no income women but wouldn't supply birth control pills. That has since changed, but just the thought is ridiculous.

I think that mandatory birth control is a complete infringement on rights. But then what about the rights of the child? I don't know what to think, maybe providing mandatory daycare and getting the woman a mandatory job, or having mandatory suprise checks to make sure the kids are being taken care of or something.. Maybe mandatory parenting classes/mandatory work training? Everything's gonna cost money...

I used to volunteer at the salvation army and it annoyed me and saddened me to no end when I would fill out a request for someone who makes like $300/month in welfare gets $150 in food stamps and they are carrying an authentic louis vuitton handbag (which cost $600+) and they are saying their kid doesn't have enough money to eat!! Ahh. How can people be so irresponsible? I would work 3 jobs before I got public assistance and I would fight til the death if my kid didn't have enough food. I know sometimes it's necessary, at least to get back on your feet, but when someone comes in with EIGHT children I mean COME ON!!
post #25 of 37
omg what a subject i could rant on for hours about this, but dont worry i wont, but i agree they should not allow them to have children, but there are so many do gooders out there just waiting to jump on that one and call in cruel, juat like in africa and some of them places you see on t.v. where these poor kids have big bellies from starvation and flies all over them, why dont they stop having them, they say they cant stop them from having babies because its against their religon, i dont guess murder is because thats what they are doing, but if the govt. stops all this B. S. here in the U.S. the same thing will happen, because these people will not work and keep them, most is to lazy to shower, there will be a big humanitian crises going on, you know how bad the stray animal thing is, what if it was kids dumped off ?? its just got to big and out of hand, i wonder if it will ever stop, i will not rant on any more, sorry if this is so long but i just get frustrated about this as you can tell
post #26 of 37
Once again I have to ask, where are the fathers? There is a lot of talk about making it mandatory for women who seek public support to get birth control. And I'm sure that there are women who take advantage of the system as it is. But in our society, it's the women who in most cases are left with caring for children. So what do we do with a man who has many children with many women? Perhaps we should demand that they are prevented from having children...And since the drug companies aren't working too hard on birth control for men, perhaps they should have vasectomies?
post #27 of 37
Sounds about the right idea!
post #28 of 37
As a former Welfare receipient, I must add my two cents.

Shortly after my son was born, the father took off. I applied for and received Welfare and WIC and free daycare. During this time I went to college full time and also worked 40 hours a week. After about a year, I managed to land a terrific job with full benefits and a great salary; and I was no longer on Welfare. I could not have done this without Welfare and the free daycare I received. However, I did not choose to breed to increase my check amount. I believe that there should be a two child limit and/or, if you choose to have a child while already on Welfare, your check should not increase.

I am also quite happy to say that 5 years later, I am buying a house here in San Diego, and am happliy engaged to a Ph.D.! After I am married, then and only then, will I consider having another child.

Oh, and the bio father? The District Attorney is now garnishing his paycheck to pay back every penny I received from the State.
post #29 of 37
Thanks for sharing your story, Heather. That is the perfect example of how the system is supposed to work.

Love your suggestion, Tybalt!
post #30 of 37
Originally posted by Tybalt
You know those electronic devices that people under house arrest have to wear? Perhaps they could be adapted to fit in the pants of serial baby-daddy's while they are on welfare. Maybe they could also be wired to deliver an electric shock every time they lie to a woman.

"Aw Baby, you know you be da only one ah be lovin" ZZZAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPP!
Ha Ha!!! Love it!!!
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