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did I make a big mistake??

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Hi all,
As you all know I trapped Orange Cat and had him neutered and brought him back to our place to stay with us. I kept him inside for 4 days and let him back outside. He was gone for a couple of days, then came ack and seemed really happy. It's been a couple of weeks now, and last night when i went out to feed the horses the last time at 10pm. and OC came down from the hay loft and I saw him and started to laugh. He looked like he took a mud bath Then I noticed that he didnt look right. At first I thought he had been hit by a car, but I saw that he had a lot of scratches on his head, and the inside of his ear was bleeding. So I figured he was fighting with the other males. He seemed to be in shock, as he really wasn't acting quickly. But then he followed us out of the barn and stopped to spray some things so I figured he was ok, just his pride had really been hurt. Well, went out this morning,and in front of the barn was an awful lot of his fur on the ground. I also can't find him anywhere. Im so afraid that by having him nuetered that I have signed his death warrent. He was head male around here, and now it seems all the other ferals that come and go are now beating up on him and he is not fighting to protect himself. I need to find him, but I live in the country and he could be anywhere. I've looked for over an hr. and no luck or sound from him. I'll give it somemore time, but I'm so afraid that I've done something to really hurt him. What should I do if he comes back? I need to find a vet that will treat feral cats. Should I keep him here if he comes back? any suggestions?

Mary
post #2 of 27
He may have been fighting with them... or them with him b/c maybe he smells different .... his being fixed shouldn't have affected his alpha status, I don't think. Someone with much more feral experience can help with that.

I would keep him. That may be the only way to keep him safe. Who did the neutering surgery... can you take OC back there ... if and WHEN you find him?

Poor baby. that everything works out.
post #3 of 27
Could you have him as a indoor only cat?

Otherwise he should do all right together with females and other neutered males.
post #4 of 27
My parents have a male cat who was neutered young. He is outside-only, and about 12 years old. From time to time he has had fight wounds. But, he always seems to come out on top, surviving, and still friendly. Let us know when you find him!
post #5 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostmary View Post
Im so afraid that by having him nuetered that I have signed his death warrent.
As a volunteer at the Furkids Cat Shelter for over a year, I can absolutely positively guarantee you that neutering male cats does not change their Alpha status. Sure things are different for a short while right after the surgery, but the Alpha cats at the shelter that have been neutered go right back to Alpha status with absolutely NO CHANGE within days after being neutered.

There are feral cats in all 13 rooms at the shelter, and even a whole colony of TNR cats that live behind the shelter that just wouldn't thrive inside, and I've seen so many times the Alpha and non-Alpha but bossy males be neutered and have no behavior change at all.

I'm definitely no expert, but I'm sure whatever is going on with him is just an unlucky coincidence.

Good luck and keep us posted!
post #6 of 27
Neutering doesn't mean he is going to stop defending himself!! All my cats are spayed/neutered, and some still fight with each other (Fur flying).
post #7 of 27
It is possible to turn a feral cat into an inside-only cat, but it does take some time, patience and vigilance. I have done it once before and am doing it again with my new adopted boy. It basically comes down to making the inside as appealing as you can so that your wandering boy loses his inclination to roam. Some things to try – keep him busy with toys – you can try any type of box, some of the wand toys with “bird” feathers, toys he can climb through, on and on top of, balls to chase, catnip-type items, anything he can chase (but big enough that he can’t swallow it). Buy some cat-grass from a pet store and let him “graze and eat”. Have a scratching post or two handy for claw-stretching time. Set up comfy, safe spots near windows or doors so he can spend lazy hours looking outside and “talking” to the squirrels and birds who happen past him – keeps them safe too! Make sure the screens are secure and/or locked. Play with him as much as you can and keep him occupied and happy. You might think about purchasing a harness-type collar and taking him outside on walks or attaching it to a leash and letting him have supervised time outside. Sometimes it seems to satisfy their taste for the great outdoors. And something most of us do anyway – talk to him as much as you can. Our pets love the sound of our voices. When I am alone with Buddy, I talk to him and ask him how is he, whether he is warm enough, what kind of day he had while I was at work, etc. If he ever answers me, look out! Involve him in your day-to-day activities as much as possible so that you and your family become his world and the outside world seems dull by comparison. I always kid that my cats would never take off if they were given the chance – they have it much too soft and they’re no fools! I hope I am right about that. Good luck with your wanderer!
post #8 of 27
Sending prayers and vibes that OC returns home soon
Is there any chance that it could be raccoons creating disturbances with him, and not other cats???
Please know that you did the right thing by having him neutered - his hormones are probably still very "tommy", so his problems are most likely related to something else.
The main thing is that he returns to your care A.S.A.P. - hopefully, he returns & stays near the horses for protection. Please keep us posted
post #9 of 27
Thread Starter 
He came home.. He looks like he's been through the wringer,but he is here. I've cleaned him up the best I can, and nothing lookes infected. He hurts when I pick him up, but I think it's more cuts hurt then anything else. All his bones looks fine and I think he'll be fine. Looking at his wounds again, I'd say he was on top, as he has a lot of scratches between his back legs. I sat with him in the sun and he was rubbing on me and then rolled on his back so I could gently rub his belly, then he stood up and sprayed me. . So I guess he's ok.
It's amazing how these cats can steal your heart. I wish I could bring him and Gray Cat in the house, but my 4 Doxis would like to have them for lunch. OC does come in the back yard when I'm out with the dogs, and just stands next to me. Of course, he is bigger then then they are. I think he would get along, or at least be tolerated by 3 of them but I've got one that will never accept him.

Mary
post #10 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostmary View Post
I wish I could bring him and Gray Cat in the house, but my 4 Doxis would like to have them for lunch. OC does come in the back yard when I'm out with the dogs, and just stands next to me. Of course, he is bigger then then they are. I think he would get along, or at least be tolerated by 3 of them but I've got one that will never accept him.

Mary
Im not so sure about it. Cat are good at pleasing themselves in. They do it to humans, or other cats. But they can also do it to dogs.

I realised this when I read once a forumist on my history forum tell: "Iam a dog person and have always been an owner of several dogs. Im no cat person at all. Yet, during the years, 4 cats did lived with us. They were all strays who did appeared at our home and stayed. It was fun to see how they did go in to please the dogs and be friends with them. That done, the rest was easy... ".
post #11 of 27
Thread Starter 
I may try it in the future. Right now I'm going to keep things as they are. One of my dogs is 18 and her heart itakes up her chest as it is so large. I try not to let her bark at the cats as I'm afraid it will kill her, so for now I'll let them stay outside. She is one that would let them in, but I'm scare the initial excitement would do her in. I know that my boy is fine outside, even with one eye. He does seem to have kept his alpha attitute towards the other males tho. At the moment, he seems happy just chasing them off the property. He is soooo cute tho, even through the dried blood. Whenever I'm outside, he wants to be right by my side, so here I am walking around and I have my 4 cats walking behind me, 2 solid black girls, 1 brown/black tabby, and one orange male. Now all I need is a torti, tux, ummmmm, I'm sure there's more

mary
post #12 of 27
I'm glad he came home Mary!
post #13 of 27
Thread Starter 
Ok...Now I know I'm crazy..My daughter called with info about 2 kittens about 7 mo old. some really old man has been taking them into his place which is really filthy and over crowded with other cats. he has been putting them back outside tho. They don't seem tooooo feral. She is going to bring them up to my place and let them out in my barn while hubby and I am gone this friday. (Hubby has said No more unless they just wonder in). All I know is that I don't know anything about them. I told my daughter that. . she then said that she loved me. We will see what happens...

Mary
post #14 of 27
Aww...what a nice home you make for all the pets, full of so much love Your hubby is very smart to marry such a lady
Sending prayers and vibes for harmony, and that your senior doxie stays well
post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostmary View Post
Hi all,
As you all know I trapped Orange Cat and had him neutered and brought him back to our place to stay with us. I kept him inside for 4 days and let him back outside. He was gone for a couple of days, then came ack and seemed really happy. It's been a couple of weeks now, and last night when i went out to feed the horses the last time at 10pm. and OC came down from the hay loft and I saw him and started to laugh. He looked like he took a mud bath Then I noticed that he didnt look right. At first I thought he had been hit by a car, but I saw that he had a lot of scratches on his head, and the inside of his ear was bleeding. So I figured he was fighting with the other males. He seemed to be in shock, as he really wasn't acting quickly. But then he followed us out of the barn and stopped to spray some things so I figured he was ok, just his pride had really been hurt. Well, went out this morning,and in front of the barn was an awful lot of his fur on the ground. I also can't find him anywhere. Im so afraid that by having him nuetered that I have signed his death warrent. He was head male around here, and now it seems all the other ferals that come and go are now beating up on him and he is not fighting to protect himself. I need to find him, but I live in the country and he could be anywhere. I've looked for over an hr. and no luck or sound from him. I'll give it somemore time, but I'm so afraid that I've done something to really hurt him. What should I do if he comes back? I need to find a vet that will treat feral cats. Should I keep him here if he comes back? any suggestions?

Mary
Yes I would keep him inside and get him to the vet asap.
post #16 of 27
Poor thing. I don't think you should keep him indoors though, cats that have been outdoor cats do not like being confined inside the house and go crazy. I have had my share of misery dealing with our strictly outdoor cats when they were indoors during 4th of July. They cried by the door, freaked out and it was not fun. Cats that are indoors (as I'm sure you know) are bot without issues. Spraying, furniture scratching, spraying and litterbox problems are only a few of common indoor cat issues. You just have to weigh the goods and bads, I personally think that outdoors is better for us people and the cats that "own us."

Studies have proven that owners of strictly indoor kitties tended to reject the idea of cats being independent and deciding for themselves the nature of their lifestyle. I've been around these forums and read enough Cat fancy magazines to know that this is indeed true....... Cats really don't need, or want for us, to confine them to our home and force them to conform to our lifestyle. My cats are proudly independent and I wouldn't have it any other way! Some really lucky cats!

By the way, about Orange Cat losing his alpha status, it is possible. I've had tomcats (and prefer them over alters!) and they were always pretty dominant cats, but not agressive. Wish all boys were so lucky...
post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat-tastrophe View Post
Poor thing. I don't think you should keep him indoors though, cats that have been outdoor cats do not like being confined inside the house and go crazy. I have had my share of misery dealing with our strictly outdoor cats when they were indoors during 4th of July. They cried by the door, freaked out and it was not fun. Cats that are indoors (as I'm sure you know) are bot without issues. Spraying, furniture scratching, spraying and litterbox problems are only a few of common indoor cat issues. You just have to weigh the goods and bads, I personally think that outdoors is better for us people and the cats that "own us."

Studies have proven that owners of strictly indoor kitties tended to reject the idea of cats being independent and deciding for themselves the nature of their lifestyle. I've been around these forums and read enough Cat fancy magazines to know that this is indeed true....... Cats really don't need, or want for us, to confine them to our home and force them to conform to our lifestyle. My cats are proudly independent and I wouldn't have it any other way! Some really lucky cats!

By the way, about Orange Cat losing his alpha status, it is possible. I've had tomcats (and prefer them over alters!) and they were always pretty dominant cats, but not agressive. Wish all boys were so lucky...
Oh, please. I don't have any of the issues you mentioned for indoor kitties, and I've got 3 indoors right now. Two are former ferals who were born outdoors. Guess what? They don't even try to go outside. Cats don't need to be outside to live long, happy, healthy lives. I've seen outdoor cats that have been hit by cars, shot by neighbors, and beaten to death. They come home with parasites and abcesses. So, weighing the positives and negatives, I would much rather have my cats indoors. It has nothing to do with rejecting the idea of cats being independent. I'd love to know which studies have proven the mindset of strictly-indoors cat owners.

Believe it or not, cats are domestic animals. They were domesticated by humans, and irresponsible humans allowing their cats to breed uncontrollably has created an over-population issue. Millions of cats are euthanized each year in the U.S. If you think this isn't a problem, I encourage you to volunteer at a local veterinary hospital or animal shelter and see for yourself. Outdoor life is not ideal for cats. My ferals had a variety of issues stemming from life outdoors: they were underweight (not able to find enough food, I suppose), dirty, had fleas, giardia, respiratory infections, and poor dental health.

If you have problems with furniture scratching, then that problem is your own. I've never had any cats develop any health issues because they scratched some furniture. As far as spraying goes, neutering usually resolves that issue if it's ever an issue at all. Also, it's rare for a cat to have "litterbox problems" unless the box isn't big enough, the owner doesn't scoop the box often enough, or the cat has some underlying medical issue.
post #18 of 27
My answers to this in Red

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat-tastrophe View Post
Poor thing. I don't think you should keep him indoors though, cats that have been outdoor cats do not like being confined inside the house and go crazy. This is a myth, there is no basis for it I have had my share of misery dealing with our strictly outdoor cats when they were indoors during 4th of July. They were probably freaked out about the fireworks, and the only difference is that if they were outside, you wouldn't hear them. They cried by the door, freaked out and it was not fun. Cats that are indoors (as I'm sure you know) are bot without issues. Spraying, furniture scratching, spraying and litterbox problems are only a few of common indoor cat issues. Absolutely not true. Inside cats are perfectly happy, and much healthier than outside cats. They are not subject to cars, diseases, fights with other animals, dogs mean people, poisoning... The list goes on and on. Spraying can be prevented by neutering, furniture scratching can be prevented with proper scratching furniture and nail clippings, and litter box issues are RARE, and can be prevented by having the appropriate number of litter boxes, proper sizes and cleaning. You just have to weigh the goods and bads, I personally think that outdoors is better for us people and the cats that "own us."

Studies have proven that owners of strictly indoor kitties tended to reject the idea of cats being independent and deciding for themselves the nature of their lifestyle. No, we are just concerned about their health and safety. Numbers don't lie, and statistics show that outside cats in average live 3-4 years, while inside cats live in average 16. I've been around these forums This is a cat lover's forum, and with love comes the concern for our kitties health and happiness.and read enough Cat fancy magazines to know that this is indeed true....... Cats really don't need, or want for us, to confine them to our home and force them to conform to our lifestyle. My cats are proudly independent and I wouldn't have it any other way! Some really lucky cats!

By the way, about Orange Cat losing his alpha status, it is possible. I've had tomcats (and prefer them over alters!) and they were always pretty dominant cats, but not agressive. Wish all boys were so lucky...
.......................................
post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostmary View Post
Ok...Now I know I'm crazy..My daughter called with info about 2 kittens about 7 mo old. some really old man has been taking them into his place which is really filthy and over crowded with other cats. he has been putting them back outside tho. They don't seem tooooo feral. She is going to bring them up to my place and let them out in my barn while hubby and I am gone this friday. (Hubby has said No more unless they just wonder in). All I know is that I don't know anything about them. I told my daughter that. . she then said that she loved me. We will see what happens...

Mary
How's it going with OC - and now with the new kitties? I expect you've had them spayed/neutered, but just in case, thought I'd remind you kitten season is upon us....

I think it's really wonderful what you and hubby are doing!

Laurie
post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat-tastrophe View Post
cats that have been outdoor cats do not like being confined inside the house and go crazy. I have had my share of misery dealing with our strictly outdoor cats when they were indoors

May be so. But there is a big difference between home cats who are allowed to be outside - outside is for them a big fun and a big source of joy. Whenever something is unpleasant or scary they can always run home.

But for the homeless the outside is mostly / often enough something terrible, where all the dangers are and very little safety.

Thus, many rescuers witness it is often much easier to make a rescued semiferale into a strictly indoor cat, compared with a previously outgoing homecat as above...

By the way: most fosterers keep their rescued semiferales indoors. Thus, they do copy per definition with being inside...
post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat-tastrophe View Post
Cats that are indoors (as I'm sure you know) are bot without issues. Spraying, furniture scratching, spraying and litterbox problems are only a few of common indoor cat issues. You just have to weigh the goods and bads, I personally think that outdoors is better for us people and the cats that "own us."

Studies have proven that owners of strictly indoor kitties tended to reject the idea of cats being independent and deciding for themselves the nature of their lifestyle. I've been around these forums and read enough Cat fancy magazines to know that this is indeed true....... Cats really don't need, or want for us, to confine them to our home and force them to conform to our lifestyle. My cats are proudly independent and I wouldn't have it any other way! Some really lucky cats!
What the heck?!?! Can you show me any of these so-called studies? All of cats as an adult have been indoor cats, and they have NEVER sprayed or had litter box problems. Yes they scratch, but they know to scratch on the scratching post. Cat are smart and can be trained to scratch in appropriate areas. Of the four cats I had when I was younger who were outdoor cats, one was hit by a car and killed, one was hit by a car and had his jaw split in two which had to be wired back together, and one was killed by a snake bite. The last cat didn't really like going outside and never went far from home. I know which cats have had a better, more full life.

I do not feel like my carts are conforming to my lifestyle be being forced inside. One of them is too scared to go outside, one has eye problems, and would not survive outside, and one goes outside when I'm home to supervise, and she doesn't stay outside for long. She prefers to go to my neighbours places (I'm in a townhouse complex), and hang out in their house, or sit on my back deck in the sun.

I can honestly say I think you are speaking with very limited experience. A indoor cat is general much safer and healthier than an outdoors cat. Not only that, but they cause much less stress on the local wildlife if they're indoors.
post #22 of 27
lostmary - if there's a low cost vet around you I would try to get the kitty there. Or at least get him in to be neutered and get some bloodwork to check for kitty diseases. He may still have been in a car accident, it's sometimes hard to tell. If he has been fighting, then it's possible he's contracted a transmittable disease.

Good luck!
post #23 of 27
Hi there,

wether it is safe to let your cat out or not will depend on your neighbourhood, not so much the cat.

Our cats are now 15 and have been indoor/ outdoor cats since they were 6 months old. Our Maine coon died last year aged 17 due to cancer- he too was an indoor/ outdoor cat for 16 1/2 years. The neighbour's indoor/outdoor cat are all 14+ or have died of age related diseases and of course everyone keeps their eyes open for each other's cats.

BUT, we are very fortunate to live in an area where this is possible! If your neighbourhood isn't safe then letting a cat out simply isn't an option.

Also, it is a very personal choice wether you want to let your cat out or not- and this should be respected.



Otherwise I agree with StefanZ- a feral brought indoors will most of the time be so happy to be indoors with enough food and shelter that it'll be OK with not going out anymore.

Confine an indoor/ outdoor cat to being an indoor cat only and very often the problems will beginn- peeing and ripping up the doorframe to get OUT, screeming.

How exactly a cat will react is hard to predict- but you can always give it a try and find out what the cat thinks about being restricted to indoors..

Christine
post #24 of 27
Thread Starter 
Hi all,

Well, here's the update. OC is doing fine. He is still running around, but he doesn't stay gone long anymore. His best friend is Yellow Cat. YC was one of his arch enemies a while ago, but now they are BFF . So, YC will be the next one to be trapped and neutered. The kittens are doing great. My daughter has taken the long haired one named Mokey. She has had her kitten shots and will be spayed April 16th. Smoke is going to stay with me. I've tried to introduce her to the dogs, but she HATES them. Of course, they don't really love her. Last night I had her in the bedroom to meet one of the girls. It was really funny. MY dog went nose to nose with Smoke. Smoke growled, my dog didn't get it, Smoke hissed, spit and slapped in about 1/2 a second. My poor dog looked at her as if to say "what". I finally had to move Smoke away. she wasn't happy at all. It ok tho. She is hopefully going to get spayed Tue. I went in to play with her this afternoon and low and behold, she assumed the possition, tail up, to the side, and started treading. I starting closing doors and windows so fast she didn't know what happened. I am NOT going to have that happen on my watch. Not with all the males that think this is the neatest place to live. come to think of it, why is it only the males move in. I've not seen any females here at all, except for the ferals that I adopted from the TNR groups and the one that I took in known as Gray Cat?
Mary

PS. I've been talked into socializing feral kittens from this same TNR group. IS the word Sucker written on my forehead. Not only that, but now I'm volunteering at the local spca. I need my head examined
post #25 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostmary View Post
He came home.. He looks like he's been through the wringer,but he is here. I've cleaned him up the best I can, and nothing lookes infected. He hurts when I pick him up, but I think it's more cuts hurt then anything else. All his bones looks fine and I think he'll be fine. Looking at his wounds again, I'd say he was on top, as he has a lot of scratches between his back legs. I sat with him in the sun and he was rubbing on me and then rolled on his back so I could gently rub his belly, then he stood up and sprayed me. . So I guess he's ok.
It's amazing how these cats can steal your heart. I wish I could bring him and Gray Cat in the house, but my 4 Doxis would like to have them for lunch. OC does come in the back yard when I'm out with the dogs, and just stands next to me. Of course, he is bigger then then they are. I think he would get along, or at least be tolerated by 3 of them but I've got one that will never accept him.

Mary
So YOU belong to HIM!!! Not the other way around. He marked you as his territory! He doesn't sound feral to me. No truly feral cat would walk along with you as you described, sit with you, and give you his belly to rub. Is he fixed yet? If not I hope that happens soon. That will help with his spraying eventually.
post #26 of 27
Thread Starter 
The funny thing is, he is totally feral. He has been around for a couple of years. It's only in the last year that he would even stay around if I was within a football field length of him, and it wasn't until he was really hurt that he let me get close enough to touch him. It's been a long process with him. I now have another feral cat, yellow cat, that I can get to about 20 feet of without him running far away when I speak to him. I'm willing to bet in another 6 months I'll be petting him also.

Mary
ps..I had him neutered about a month or more ago. much better...he doesn't smell as bad
post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostmary View Post
The funny thing is, he is totally feral. He has been around for a couple of years. It's only in the last year that he would even stay around if I was within a football field length of him, and it wasn't until he was really hurt that he let me get close enough to touch him. It's been a long process with him. I now have another feral cat, yellow cat, that I can get to about 20 feet of without him running far away when I speak to him. I'm willing to bet in another 6 months I'll be petting him also.

Mary
ps..I had him neutered about a month or more ago. much better...he doesn't smell as bad
He trusts you now. And he knows that you are/have been helping him. He understands in his kitty way and is letting you know. That is soooo sweet.
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