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200 lb Pet Ape Mauls Woman - Page 2

post #31 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
The only reason that's probably not bigger in the news is because it's not a pitbull.
Actually, if you routinely check on dog maulings, it is no longer PC to describe the attacking dog as a pitbull. It takes more investigation to find out the breed type.
I think it is because dog owners are consumers and the consumer driven media wisely realizes that it doesn't pay to stir up angry dog owners. I am often amazed at the "comments" sections following dog attacks that there are people who believe that the only dogs who attack a child have been mistreated, and have been "taught" to attack other animals As if a pack of wild dogs have been taught to hunt and kill
As for the chimpanzee, it was doing chimp behavior and it had the capacity to overpower that poor victim there was so much wrong with the human/chimp relationship that was so abnormal, it turned my stomach. No respect for the chimp being a chimp
How sad that irresponsible exotic owners make it harder for good owners to keep their animals. In responsible care, the animals often live healthier and longer than if they were in the wild.
If the owner of the chimp gets charged, i wonder how much liability she would have? It sounds like she might have mitigating circumstances because she was suffering from her grief at her terrible losses of husband and daughter. I wonder if the vet who treated the chimp had any red flags? I'm sure that there's a civil lawsuit lurking around
post #32 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
The only reason that's probably not bigger in the news is because it's not a pitbull.
So very true.
Quote:
Shooting and killing the chimp was the only logical option left to the police. I've heard that the lady who owned him didn't a license to own the ape. Is there any truth to that?
The police did what they had to do. I don't know about the license, but the state she lives in is a ban state. However, she owned the chimp prior to the ban going into effect, so she was grandfathered in. I am sure she had the proper license. Doesn't really matter though. Having a license means nothing as to whether you are a responsible owner or not. Just look at how many bad "licensed" drivers there are, who drive around drunk and so fourth. I am not sure, but she may have required a USDA license. I know what permits/licenses are needed for the cats, but not so much for primates.
post #33 of 56
When ever an isolated incident happens such as this one, the government always wants to punish the responsible people too. I have already recieved an email from the humane society to sign a petition against owners of primates. I will NOT sign any such petition.

Everytime there is a shooting they want to take away everyones gun rights. If it was a pitbull that ripped the ladies face off they would be on the band wagon to destroy pitbulls.

Wouldn't that be awful if they came to your door to destroy your beloved pet because somewhere in the country they deemed the breed dangerous because of an isolated incident.

I believe in responsible pet ownership whether it's exotic pets or our household pets.
post #34 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by abbycats View Post
When ever an isolated incident happens such as this one, the government always wants to punish the responsible people too. I have already recieved an email from the humane society to sign a petition against owners of primates. I will NOT sign any such petition.

Everytime there is a shooting they want to take away everyones gun rights. If it was a pitbull that ripped the ladies face off they would be on the band wagon to destroy pitbulls.

Wouldn't that be awful if they came to your door to destroy your beloved pet because somewhere in the country they deemed the breed dangerous because of an isolated incident.

I believe in responsible pet ownership whether it's exotic pets or our household pets.
Sadly they have done this in Ontario. It is illegal to own a pitbull. I don't know the exact parameters but it is a shame and some folks have had rehome their pets because of this stupid law.
post #35 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by abbycats View Post
When ever an isolated incident happens such as this one, the government always wants to punish the responsible people too. I have already recieved an email from the humane society to sign a petition against owners of primates. I will NOT sign any such petition.

Everytime there is a shooting they want to take away everyones gun rights. If it was a pitbull that ripped the ladies face off they would be on the band wagon to destroy pitbulls.

Wouldn't that be awful if they came to your door to destroy your beloved pet because somewhere in the country they deemed the breed dangerous because of an isolated incident.

I believe in responsible pet ownership whether it's exotic pets or our household pets.
I applaud you for NOT signing that petition I guess we all should live in a nice goverment plastic bubble so no one gets hurt, since they know what's good for us
post #36 of 56
I'm not sure if anyone is following this thread now, I couldn'treply earlier because the story sickened me and my heart BROKE for that chimp, who should have been in the wild, or more likely rescued somewhere he could interact with humans, but also interact with other chimps in an environment where he could be a chimp (ie a proper enclosure) whether that be a zoo or a rescue group.

IN ANY CASE - amber the bobcat can probably answer this best, but how does one even go about LEGALLY buying or obtaining an 'exotic'. Especially in the case of the chimp, it must be illegal to breed them for pets (God I hope so) and taking them out of the wild is a disgusting thing to do, so UNLESS they are rescued can you even obtain a chimp legally?? (out of interest sake how do you get your cats?...... I imagine it's a bit different?) But a chimp....... I mean really. AND if the government does allow individuals to keep RESCUED chimps (or other like primates and dangerous animals) then it should be strictly regulated and there should be a governing body to oversee HOW they are kept, in a manner where they can still be an animal, so it is much less likely that something like this horrific incident can ever happen. However, good luck convincing the tax payers that is a good idea. I strongly however believe that chimps should live in groups, so you should either have a whole group appropriately maintained, or NONE. Oh course that is specific to chimps who live in families.......

Annnnnnnnnywho.. thats just IMO
post #37 of 56
I just read that the Government is saying no to people having primates as pets.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/...ill/index.html

Are they going to seize all the responsible Primate owners pets if all this goes through?
post #38 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmunsie View Post
IN ANY CASE - amber the bobcat can probably answer this best, but how does one even go about LEGALLY buying or obtaining an 'exotic'. Especially in the case of the chimp, it must be illegal to breed them for pets (God I hope so) and taking them out of the wild is a disgusting thing to do, so UNLESS they are rescued can you even obtain a chimp legally?? (out of interest sake how do you get your cats?...... I imagine it's a bit different?) But a chimp....... I mean really. AND if the government does allow individuals to keep RESCUED chimps (or other like primates and dangerous animals) then it should be strictly regulated and there should be a governing body to oversee HOW they are kept, in a manner where they can still be an animal, so it is much less likely that something like this horrific incident can ever happen. However, good luck convincing the tax payers that is a good idea. I strongly however believe that chimps should live in groups, so you should either have a whole group appropriately maintained, or NONE. Oh course that is specific to chimps who live in families.......

Annnnnnnnnywho.. thats just IMO
First, let me explain something here. I'm not sure how well this woman cared for her chimp or if she had the proper safety measures in place. Once a story like this hits the media, the media puts a huge spin on it and the real truth is never known. In any case, this woman should have had the proper safety measures in place as I and other responsible exotic animal owners do. These safety measures include protecting the animal from the public and the public from the animal. I follow all of the guidlines. At no time, even when my cats are out in their enclosure can people come into contact with my animals. At no time do I ever let anyone handle, pet or interact with my cats other than other experienced owners and the vet.
To answer your question, where do they come from?? They come from breeders and not from the wild, as do my cats. However, I am not sure where this woman in question got her chimp or if in fact, it did come from a breeder. I am not as familiar with primates as I am felines. But, I do know that monkeys that people keep as pets, do come from breeders (in the USA). Most of these breeders are USDA licensed or should be. I do not know of any chimp breeders, but as stated, primates are not my specialty. I do not support aggressive or strict goverment regulations, but what I do support are fair regulations that promote the health and welfare of the animal and protect the innocent public. If a member of the public breaks the rules of the animal owner, by climbing over fences and barriers, cutting fences or releasing animals, they are at fault and should be dealt with by law. (These are the not so innocent public) I fully support ALL private ownership. However, the owner has the duty to protect the animal and the public. The law should also protect the animal owner from anyone not following the owners rules. Part of the problem too, are the breeders. Just as with domestic animals, some breeders see the animal as a way to make money. (not all, but some) However, with exotic animals, if the person buying has no clue as to the proper care of the animals, accidents can happen. That is why I feel that breeders of exotic animals should require some sort of proof that the owner is legally able to own the animal and that they have the experience with the animal they wish to purchase. This, coupled with fair regulations, would allow RESPONSIBLE exotic animal ownership to survive.
post #39 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by abbycats View Post
I just read that the Government is saying no to people having primates as pets.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/...ill/index.html

Are they going to seize all the responsible Primate owners pets if all this goes through?
Here is a perfect example of where I said, the media always puts a spin on things. The captive primate safety act did not come about from this chimp accident. This bill was around last year. Last year, just as it did now, it passed the house. However, we succeeded in killing it in the senate I feel we should be able to do the same again this year, but with this accident, you never know. Many of these laws are typical knee jerk reactions to any accident involving an animal, especially an exotic.
Quote:
Trade driven by "unscrupulous dealers" who sell primates, Humane Society says

Primates can inflict serious injuries, spread disease, group says

Bill comes 8 days after woman left in serious condition after chimpanzee mauling
It always amazes me how the Humane Society becomes experts. People inflict serious injuries and spread disease too. I wonder what "group" said this about primates? There are no diseases spread by primates born and raised in captivity. And no, this bill did not come 8 days after the accident. It was around last year and we knew it would be reintroduced again this year, since it was killed last year. I just love this liberal media Yes, this story is terrible and I feel horrible for all involved. But there are accidents everyday in life. I don't need to tell anyone how dangerous it is to drive or to even be a pedestrian. More people die every year taking a bath or shower, than people killed by exotic animals. We haven't banned cars yet and God forbid if some nutty law maker decides he/she needs to protect us from dangerous showers and bans them too
post #40 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberThe Bobcat View Post
First, let me explain something here. I'm not sure how well this woman cared for her chimp or if she had the proper safety measures in place. Once a story like this hits the media, the media puts a huge spin on it and the real truth is never known. In any case, this woman should have had the proper safety measures in place as I and other responsible exotic animal owners do. These safety measures include protecting the animal from the public and the public from the animal. I follow all of the guidlines. At no time, even when my cats are out in their enclosure can people come into contact with my animals. At no time do I ever let anyone handle, pet or interact with my cats other than other experienced owners and the vet.
To answer your question, where do they come from?? They come from breeders and not from the wild, as do my cats. However, I am not sure where this woman in question got her chimp or if in fact, it did come from a breeder. I am not as familiar with primates as I am felines. But, I do know that monkeys that people keep as pets, do come from breeders (in the USA). Most of these breeders are USDA licensed or should be. I do not know of any chimp breeders, but as stated, primates are not my specialty. I do not support aggressive or strict goverment regulations, but what I do support are fair regulations that promote the health and welfare of the animal and protect the innocent public. If a member of the public breaks the rules of the animal owner, by climbing over fences and barriers, cutting fences or releasing animals, they are at fault and should be dealt with by law. (These are the not so innocent public) I fully support ALL private ownership. However, the owner has the duty to protect the animal and the public. The law should also protect the animal owner from anyone not following the owners rules. Part of the problem too, are the breeders. Just as with domestic animals, some breeders see the animal as a way to make money. (not all, but some) However, with exotic animals, if the person buying has no clue as to the proper care of the animals, accidents can happen. That is why I feel that breeders of exotic animals should require some sort of proof that the owner is legally able to own the animal and that they have the experience with the animal they wish to purchase. This, coupled with fair regulations, would allow RESPONSIBLE exotic animal ownership to survive.
Thank you for your reply. I always enjoy reading your responses very much and find them very educational. I also agree strongly with everything you say, sounds like you really know your stuff and you have a very beautiful feline family that I am very jealous of! But would never be ambitious enough to take on as my own
post #41 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmunsie View Post
Thank you for your reply. I always enjoy reading your responses very much and find them very educational. I also agree strongly with everything you say, sounds like you really know your stuff and you have a very beautiful feline family that I am very jealous of! But would never be ambitious enough to take on as my own
I try to not let my emotions get in the way, but sometimes is hard. I'm glad you enjoy my posts
post #42 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberThe Bobcat View Post
Here is a perfect example of where I said, the media always puts a spin on things. The captive primate safety act did not come about from this chimp accident.
I remember you mentioning that thing prior to the last election, at least as early as October.
post #43 of 56
Have you seen the latest reports on this? The medical facility is being very downbeat about the woman's chances. She lost her nose, at least one of her lips, both hands, and they think she has significant brain damage.
post #44 of 56
The extent of the injuries is really horrific. In addition to the injuries Mike listed, she also lost both eyelids, has injuries to her eyes, and lost the bone structure to her face.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29515100/

She's in a medically induced coma, thank goodness. If there's a time for euthanasia of humans, I really think this would be it. None of us would keep our beloved pets alive with such horrific injuries, and a grim prognosis of recovery and/or repair. That poor woman.
post #45 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
Have you seen the latest reports on this? The medical facility is being very downbeat about the woman's chances. She lost her nose, at least one of her lips, both hands, and they think she has significant brain damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
The extent of the injuries is really horrific. In addition to the injuries Mike listed, she also lost both eyelids, has injuries to her eyes, and lost the bone structure to her face.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29515100/

She's in a medically induced coma, thank goodness. If there's a time for euthanasia of humans, I really think this would be it. None of us would keep our beloved pets alive with such horrific injuries, and a grim prognosis of recovery and/or repair. That poor woman.
That's far more gruesome than originally reported. How horrible for her and her family. The article makes it sound as if she still might die.
post #46 of 56
There is an update to this - the injured woman's family is suing.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090317/...attack_lawsuit

I'm not normally a fan of injury lawsuits but from what I have seen of the woman who owned the primate and the injured woman I think it is justified. Apparently someone who runs a primate rescue center had told the owner that she was not able to properly take care of the chimp.
post #47 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
There is an update to this - the injured woman's family is suing.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090317/...attack_lawsuit

I'm not normally a fan of injury lawsuits but from what I have seen of the woman who owned the primate and the injured woman I think it is justified. Apparently someone who runs a primate rescue center had told the owner that she was not able to properly take care of the chimp.
That's so sad. That woman has to live with knowing and seeing her pet attack (even though we may disagree that this was a pet - to her it was) and seriously harm her friend and now she is being sued for money she obviously does not have. How is that going to help anybody? Where do they expect she is going to get $50M? Is this lawsuit really going to make anything any better? I guess stupidity comes in many forms.
post #48 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberThe Bobcat View Post
I try to not let my emotions get in the way, but sometimes is hard. I'm glad you enjoy my posts
I saw Bo Derek on Fox last weeking urging the implementation of laws against owning wild animals. I thought about you.

Ms Derek was talking about injuries she had incurred from wild animals during filming of a few movies.

I think one injury was from a chimp and one was from a big cat.
post #49 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I saw Bo Derek on Fox last weeking urging the implementation of laws against owning wild animals. I thought about you.

Ms Derek was talking about injuries she had incurred from wild animals during filming of a few movies.

I think one injury was from a chimp and one was from a big cat.
I saw her too, what a loser she is!! I am so tired of these hollywood morons thinking THEY can dictate how others should live or what we can or can not own. She had no problem making her money shooting those movies. Since she is all washed up now, she has to try and make a name for herself with this Chimp case. I say, ban Bo Derek from ever appearing on tv or movies again and lets ban Hollywood. They are useless anyway. Ok, I am off my soap box now before I get yelled at
post #50 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
That's so sad. That woman has to live with knowing and seeing her pet attack (even though we may disagree that this was a pet - to her it was) and seriously harm her friend and now she is being sued for money she obviously does not have. How is that going to help anybody? Where do they expect she is going to get $50M? Is this lawsuit really going to make anything any better? I guess stupidity comes in many forms.
I have to disagree with you here, Linda. The money won't make anything better, that is true, but it would preclude the owner from being able to own another chimp. The lawsuit states that she had been warned multiple times by various authorities about not being able to properly handle the animal, and that he had on two previous occasions bitten other people. She chose to ignore all of this and instead kept a possible danger to others in a manner that did not protect them or the animal. That's negligence, and since there is no action by authorities to press charges (that would likely include a clause to forbid her owning another primate, if convicted), a lawsuit is the only way to do that.

She does own 6 properties and 2 homes. While she may not have $50 million, the assets she does have would easily allow her to purchase another primate, possibly setting up another instance where others could be put in danger. That's assuming that another animal would be treated in the same manner that she treated Travis, but there's no reason not to assume that.
post #51 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberThe Bobcat View Post
I saw her too, what a loser she is!! I am so tired of these hollywood morons thinking THEY can dictate how others should live or what we can or can not own. She had no problem making her money shooting those movies. Since she is all washed up now, she has to try and make a name for herself with this Chimp case. I say, ban Bo Derek from ever appearing on tv or movies again and lets ban Hollywood. They are useless anyway. Ok, I am off my soap box now before I get yelled at
Being a keeper of exotics yourself, wouldn't you agree that a movie set is the perfect place to agitate the dickens out of animals? It's hardly the same thing as living in a safe and familiar environment with humans that love them.

But then, Bo hardly strikes me as the type to give that much thought to anything.
post #52 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
I have to disagree with you here, Linda. The money won't make anything better, that is true, but it would preclude the owner from being able to own another chimp. The lawsuit states that she had been warned multiple times by various authorities about not being able to properly handle the animal, and that he had on two previous occasions bitten other people. She chose to ignore all of this and instead kept a possible danger to others in a manner that did not protect them or the animal. That's negligence, and since there is no action by authorities to press charges (that would likely include a clause to forbid her owning another primate, if convicted), a lawsuit is the only way to do that.

She does own 6 properties and 2 homes. While she may not have $50 million, the assets she does have would easily allow her to purchase another primate, possibly setting up another instance where others could be put in danger. That's assuming that another animal would be treated in the same manner that she treated Travis, but there's no reason not to assume that.
When you put it that way I can understand why a lawsuit would be the way to go.
post #53 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
When you put it that way I can understand why a lawsuit would be the way to go.
Well, of course that's assuming that my logic is the same as the family's logic. Which may or may not be the case.

More likely is that they just want her to be punished, much like Nicole Simpson's and Robert Goldman's families sued OJ in a civil suit when he wasn't convicted of their murders. Still, I think just going by the evidence in the news there's a pretty good case for negligence on the owner's part, although I'm sure that's not all that would be presented in court.
post #54 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Being a keeper of exotics yourself, wouldn't you agree that a movie set is the perfect place to agitate the dickens out of animals? It's hardly the same thing as living in a safe and familiar environment with humans that love them.

But then, Bo hardly strikes me as the type to give that much thought to anything.
I agree, a movie set is no place to practice safe exotic animal husbandry. Bo is an air head IMO. Like I stated, it was ok for her to make lots of money working with these animals, but not ok for anyone else to live with them. Bo, go back into hiding, no one wants to hear from you
post #55 of 56
I have to agree with Heidi in that this case is entirely warranted of a lawsuit. The owner of that chimp was negligent and that caused this poor woman's massive injuries and almost her death.
post #56 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
I have to disagree with you here, Linda. The money won't make anything better, that is true, but it would preclude the owner from being able to own another chimp. The lawsuit states that she had been warned multiple times by various authorities about not being able to properly handle the animal, and that he had on two previous occasions bitten other people. She chose to ignore all of this and instead kept a possible danger to others in a manner that did not protect them or the animal. That's negligence, and since there is no action by authorities to press charges (that would likely include a clause to forbid her owning another primate, if convicted), a lawsuit is the only way to do that.
Very well put. This is about what I was thinking but I'm not as good at wording it. Also in case anyone else is thinking of owing a wild animal I think they need to think long and hard about whether they are able to care for it and control it adequately. I would not want to see it regulated by law, but civil lawsuits can be just as effective in getting people to self-select as to their qualifications for owning exotics.
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