Consequences of Lecturing Potential BYB's

ferriscat · Feb 9, 2009

Okay, I'll admit that I am amongst the guilty in trying to "educate" future breeders in the right methods of breeding. However, one thing I think we might want to keep in mind is that everytime we lecture someone on breeding, we might be giving them the right answers to give to the next breeder they contact.

Any thoughts?

elana55 · Feb 9, 2009

Originally Posted by FerrisCat

Okay, I'll admit that I am amongst the guilty in trying to "educate" future breeders in the right methods of breeding. However, one thing I think we might want to keep in mind is that everytime we lecture someone on breeding, we might be giving them the right answers to give to the next breeder they contact.

Any thoughts?

I think this is a bit paranoid. Anytime we teach anything it can be used the wrong way. After all, basic physics and chemistry are behind the creation of weapons. They are also behind the creation of washing machines!

I believe that education is always the best way to go, especially dealing with the BYB business. Can it back fire? Sure can. Just because it can does not mean you shoud remain silent. Silence is often misconstrued as acceptance.

goldenkitty45 · Feb 9, 2009

I'm not so sure. In most cases, we recommend they start out with a show quality ALTERED cat. If they are willing to invest in an altered cat and show it, then they are not just a byb. BYB's don't want to invest money, time, to show a cat they can't breed.

And reputable breeders are very picky in handing over breeding cats to people they do not know. Even if the byb shows for awhile, and then contacts breeders for breeding cats - they would be "found out" sooner or later by the breeders in their true intentions.

I know on the Oci message board from time to time there are "warnings" of certain people who may contact for kittens and if you run into this person and their asking you for cats, to contact the other breeder for more info - I suspect these people are ones looking to breed and are byb's. So its passed around among the breeders as to who is a "bad" person to deal with.

In some ways it really helps a lot if you don't have a popular breed because you can be found out quicker because there are not a lot of breeders to start

abymummy · Feb 9, 2009

I have bitten my tongue and stayed my hands from speaking/typing many a time since I have been accused of being "snobbish" about breeding cats.

Many people don't understand the need to breed to standard. To some, a persian is a persian, an Aby an Aby. I've turned away many a potential buyer because of certain ideas they may have and will not even listen to my reasons.

So, as an end result, I generally send people a copy of my contract and if they reply, well then good. If they don't that's all right too!

kitytize · Feb 9, 2009

It shouldn't matter if we give them the right answers because a breeder should not be giving breeding rights to someone unless that someone has proven themselves by showing in the alter class first. This way we are educating the responsible people and weeding out the irresponsible people.

missymotus · Feb 9, 2009

A breeder friend of mine who sells everything desexed had a call from someone who said the last cat was hit by a car. She tried telling him her kittens are to be kept indoors or in enclosuers and the person argued.
After the call my friend thought that next time this person will have all the right answers for the next breeder in order to get a kitten. So it's not just entires this happens with.

Thanks to emails, cat clubs etc. word gets around pretty quick when someone is up to something.

carolina · Feb 9, 2009

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

I'm not so sure. In most cases, we recommend they start out with a show quality ALTERED cat. If they are willing to invest in an altered cat and show it, then they are not just a byb. BYB's don't want to invest money, time, to show a cat they can't breed.

And reputable breeders are very picky in handing over breeding cats to people they do not know. Even if the byb shows for awhile, and then contacts breeders for breeding cats - they would be "found out" sooner or later by the breeders in their true intentions.

I know on the Oci message board from time to time there are "warnings" of certain people who may contact for kittens and if you run into this person and their asking you for cats, to contact the other breeder for more info - I suspect these people are ones looking to breed and are byb's. So its passed around among the breeders as to who is a "bad" person to deal with.

In some ways it really helps a lot if you don't have a popular breed because you can be found out quicker because there are not a lot of breeders to start

The only problem I see, is them turning around and going to get their queens and sires from a BYB, since they can't get from a reputable one... That doesn't help with the problem either, on the contrary... I am seeing a trend in here for the last few days for BYB wanna be'... I think the economy might somewhat be "helping" this situation, since breeding, on their minds, can be used instead of a regular job...
Maybe the best way is not to scare them off, but to give them access to the information they need to be a reputable breeder, the right way, and if they have what it takes, great! I think this way all the many steps and cost will scare the potential BYBs away...
Just my

wellingtoncats · Feb 9, 2009

I sometimes feel that maybe if we're lecturing people [I'm guilty of that] then we will put them off - but in the real world I was contacted by a lady 5 years ago who was interested in buying a Persian kitten for breeding - I was willing to mentor her but then a few emails later she told me she was also interested in Ragdolls, Siamese and Burmese - I immediately sent out a warning on our NZ forum but it turned out she was genuine and now 5 years later she breeds Burmese and Birman, but it shows you've got to survive "hard knocks" in the cat world - getting told things by seasoned breeders/exhibitors is nothing like losing your first litter

ferriscat · Feb 9, 2009

You're right, WellingtonCats! It's such a thin ground to tred between education, lecturing, and completely scaring a new breeder away.

I wonder if there is a "right" way to inform people without coming across as snobs. Of course, some breeders I know are very proud of being snobs and won't hesitate to say it--they worked hard to get to where they are in their programs, and perhaps we all have a little bit of a right to be snobbish about our cats!

I've also been a little taken aback by all the posts asking about breeding profits and the economy. . .

Perhaps we need to develop a good answer in anticipation of even more questions like that

I do like Abymummy's strategy of sending out contracts first

wellingtoncats · Feb 9, 2009

Originally Posted by FerrisCat

You're right, WellingtonCats! It's such a thin ground to tred between education, lecturing, and completely scaring a new breeder away.

I wonder if there is a "right" way to inform people without coming across as snobs. Of course, some breeders I know are very proud of being snobs and won't hesitate to say it--they worked hard to get to where they are in their programs, and perhaps we all have a little bit of a right to be snobbish about our cats!

I've also been a little taken aback by all the posts asking about breeding profits and the economy. . .

Perhaps we need to develop a good answer in anticipation of even more questions like that

I do like Abymummy's strategy of sending out contracts first

Yeah it would be a good idea to have something that can be said without us all jumping on the bandwagon, so to speak.

I'm proud of my cats and what I know and have achieved but honestly asking about what cats are easier to sell?

ferriscat · Feb 9, 2009

I think another thing we might want to consider is only having one person answer these requests and the rest of us remain silent--this way we don't lend legitimacy to their question. Perhaps we can draft up something in an FAQ that can easily be posted by any of us, or even a Moderator (not that Gaye needs much more work!)

whiteforest · Feb 9, 2009

As a non-breeder and a[n obsessive] cat lover, I don't find any of the responses that I've read here to be "snobbish". The thought of breeding a purebred in the future has crossed my mind in the past, but I've deemed myself "unsuitable" based on some of the information I've read from you guys on this site. Though I know I would do well breeding sound, healthy cats I do not have a great interest in showing cats. So consider it a job well done!

Anybody who is unwilling to fully absorb the information and learned knowledge from experienced breeders probably has no business breeding, so I say keep on "scaring" people off. If someone is not interested in the breed for the qualities that make it so, i.e. the written standard, there are millions of non-pedigree cats and kittens already in shelters and we certainly don't need more of them. Unfortunately though, you cannot control the sneaky behaviors of wrong-doers.

goldenkitty45 · Feb 9, 2009

Can one of the mods then take these threads and the replies of the established breeders/show people or ex-breeders like myself and do a rough draft for a FAQ sticky.

Maybe run it by the "regulars" that have the knowledge of this. I'd be willing to give my input or advise and know a few others too. We basically all agree to certain principles.

kittieshasme · Feb 9, 2009

Originally Posted by whiteforest

As a non-breeder and a[n obsessive] cat lover, I don't find any of the responses that I've read here to be "snobbish". The thought of breeding a purebred in the future has crossed my mind in the past, but I've deemed myself "unsuitable" based on some of the information I've read from you guys on this site. Though I know I would do well breeding sound, healthy cats I do not have a great interest in showing cats. So consider it a job well done!

Anybody who is unwilling to fully absorb the information and learned knowledge from experienced breeders probably has no business breeding, so I say keep on "scaring" people off. If someone is not interested in the breed for the qualities that make it so, i.e. the written standard, there are millions of non-pedigree cats and kittens already in shelters and we certainly don't need more of them. Unfortunately though, you cannot control the sneaky behaviors of wrong-doers.

Protecting purebred cats from BYBs is not being 'snobbish' in my book.

cococat · Feb 9, 2009

Originally Posted by KittiesHasMe

Protecting purebred cats from BYBs is not being 'snobbish' in my book.

I agree, I am so thankful for our responsible breeders.

mews2much · Feb 9, 2009

Before I got Cleo I asked for help to find a good breeder.
One of the sphynx breeder I talk to knows a good Devon Rex breeder but its to late for my sister.

kai bengals · Feb 9, 2009

Really just have to tell these people that ask, exactly what you're thinking, because afterall, they asked.
If it comes across snobbish, (often it does), then it comes across that way.

The determined newbie breeder will not be detered and will either become a BYB or a legit breeder.

The BYB's in my breed never last long. They can't possibly keep up with the evolution of the breed.

kitytize · Feb 9, 2009

Originally Posted by whiteforest

The thought of breeding a purebred in the future has crossed my mind in the past, but I've deemed myself "unsuitable" based on some of the information I've read from you guys on this site. Though I know I would do well breeding sound, healthy cats I do not have a great interest in showing cats.

When breeding Somalis first crossed my mind 6 years ago I also felt unsuitable because I had no interest in showing cats. For some reason I kept (and still do) feeling the pull towards breeding. My mother is the one who finally gave me the push I needed and bought me a show cat.

I finally entered my first show in 2006 and was hooked! I am now currently waiting for my first breeding female. The only problem with showing for me now is the cost. I will never be able to afford a Regional or National win but I can afford to show enough to make sure my breeding program is on the right path.

familytimerags · Feb 9, 2009

I don't feel educating others about responsible breeding is a bad thing. I don't sell breeders myself, as I would rather my babies go to loving pet or show/alter homes. I think there is too much involved with selling breeders, and I am still new, even after almost 6 years of breeding.
I agree with Goldenkitty, I would want to see the person get to know the breed, by showing an alter first, and then the next steps would be to register a cattery with one or more major cat associations, as well as a few breed specific clubs.
I also agree that BYB's do not stay going long, as ethical breeding is going to win out with most families looking to adopt.

Just my 2 cents.

Purrs,
Stormi

mews2much · Feb 9, 2009

Some breeders have asked me if I want to breed later on.
I have asked alot of questions about showing.
I told them I might decide to breed later on once I know everything about they breed and showing.
If I do decide to breed later on I will be very picking to who the kittens go to.
I would never do it for money.

Consequences of Lecturing Potential BYB's

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