How honest is too honest in a relationship? (Looooonnnggg story)

baloneysmom

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Alright, so here is the situation. My friend and I were debating this recently. My friend is married, very unhappily married. There is absolutely nothing wrong with her husband, he is sweet, funny, caring, he is just boring, and lazy. In the last 2 years he has done 2 romantic things for her, has said I love you 3 times, doesn’t do many chores, has never cooked, done laundry, cleaned litters, etc. His only chore is to take out the garbage, which she normally does.

She has tried talking to him about this but he honestly and truly does not understand. He believes that because he does his chores once a month or so, and he has done a couple romantic things that he should be praised for it. He doesn’t understand that she has done these things everyday for 2 years, and him doing it once in a blue moon doesn’t cut it. He honestly thinks he does enough.

Now for the romance part. This gets personal so pardon me lol. To keep things alive she used to initiate things in the bedroom a few times a week. She got tired of this and stopped. They haven’t done anything in months, she has mentioned it and he said “so come onto me” he doesn’t understand that she needs him to be romantic with her. She feels she is doing everything, and doesn’t feel she should do this especially if she resents him for not understanding the situation.

I forgot to mention that my friend is absolutely beautiful. She walks into a room and every single guy stares, I hate her
. She came to me the other day telling me everything I mentioned above (in longer detail) and said she is on the verge of cheating. She said she is craving the attention from her boyfriend but has no problem (as in guys are willing to give her attention, not that she is seeking it) getting it elsewhere. She mentioned she was lightly flirting with a guy at work, and said if he came onto her it would be hard to hold back. She isn’t even attracted to this guy, at all… but she is so lonely and tired of feeling like a “Mom” to her boyfriend, she feels insecure about herself, all sorts of emotions. She says the way this guy looks at her makes all of that go away. But she has no feelings for him, she just likes the way he makes her feel.

So my question…after a long story lol. How honest is too honest? I told her to tell her boyfriend exactly what she told me, including the guy at work situation. She has spoken to her boyfriend time after time for years and he STILL doesn’t get it. Maybe mentioned the guy would get him on his game.

Keep in mind her boyfriend is a good guy, so no need to bash lol. He is always there for her, calls if hes going to be late, then will call every 30min for an update, wants to spend all his time with her and will cancel important plans if she cant go, hes just a very trusting, good guy, just boring.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that we discussed him cheating on her. She said that she would be pissed… but mostly because he was “getting some” and she wasn’t… I told her to tell him this as well… too honest?
 

alleygirl

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If she's not happy with the relationship, she should end it. Just because he is a decent guy doesn't mean he is right for her. I wouldn't put up with the laziness myself.
 

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Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ve been in a similar situation (though thankfully not married) and ended up just breaking off the relationship after awhile because he never seemed to understand where I was coming from regardless of how many times or different ways I tried to explain it. When I complained about the bedroom situation he might initiate once (which usually felt forced instead of genuine) but then go back to expecting me to do the work. And once that starts feeling like an obligation its downhill from there.

In my current relationship (which is also not a marriage so there are some differences) if my boyfriend starts acting this way I just donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t see him for a week or so and when I come back he appreciates me all the more for my absence. Of course this is easier in my situation because we are only dating and therefore have our own lives and homes, etc. I think it is important to discuss problems with your partner until they either catch on and together you make a change or it becomes painfully obvious they are incapable of understanding and you have to recognize it as time to move on.

No one should have to live feeling that way. If it were my friend I would recommend complete honesty with him, though I wouldnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t suggest bringing up that she was considering stepping out unless there was no way around it. Explain to him that she feels neglected and that she is having to take care of him and that she wants to feel like his equal, not his mother. If he still doesnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t get it after that talk (probably for the 100th time!) she could mention that she needs that attention and without getting it from him she has found herself compelled to seek the attention elsewhere. At the same time she would want to be very clear that she had not and did not want to do so. That is a fine line to walk though, because a lot of men feel like they are being threatened rather than being reached out to.
 

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They aren't married. If she has had several honest heart filled attempts to communicate with him and nothing changes it is time to leave while she is ahead and not further in this relationship that seems to be going the wrong way. She can try seeking a counselor, if they are both willing to help some communication barrier and foster understanding. But she has to keep in mind this is deeply who he is and she can't change him and shouldn't try. She might want to seek a counselor just for her too honestly. Might help her get to know herself better.
I think so many women try to change who the guy is, instead, they should focus that energy on finding someone they like without having to "change" them.
She isn't his mother. She should find someone she can accept and love for who they are normally and on a regular basis, without a bunch of work and effort.

It will get worse I think and he doesn't sound that into the relationship either. This guy of hers has has a personal maid and he sounds as if he is bored anyway. I feel sorry for them.

to your friend and I hope she can figure things out.
 

natalie_ca

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There is no such thing as too much honesty in a relationship, IMHO.

However, I'm confused


Early in your post you said your friend is married, but later in the post you use the word boyfriend.

Anyway, there is a complete lack of communication going on in that relationship. They are both talking, but neither is clearly hearing the other.

Your friend said that her DH/boyfriend isn't romantic and doesn't help around the house and she's talked to him about it.

Her DH/boyfriend says he is romantic and does help out.

She needs to be more clear in what she means. Obviously their definitions of romance and helping out are different from each other and are not only on a different page, but an entirely different book.

She needs to sit down with him and tell him out right what she expects out of the relationship so far as romance goes. Obviously she wants the following:

- flowers, chocolates, just because gifts for no reason of any kind other than to say "I've been thinking about you."

- Him making the moves on her so that she feels attractive and desirable to him

- Words such as "I love you" or "I need you" or "Thank you for choosing me" etc etc

- And she wants him to take on more responsibility around the house.

Men have their own definition of helping and romance. To him he is doing both.

She needs to be specific in what she wants. And if she isn't happy with what he's giving her in return, then if she isn't married, she should seriously look at getting out before making a permanent commitment with him.

If they're already married, then perhaps marriage counseling would be something they should be considering.

Chances are he's been like this the entire time she's known him, and "overlooked" it hoping that he would change over time. That doesn't work. You need to be with someone because of who they are and what they are, not in the hopes of them changing into that person.
 
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baloneysmom

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I am having her read all the responses lol

Sorry, its her husband… I tend to make this mistake a lot and randomly say boyfriend or husband.
 

calico2222

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He sounds like a sweet, but clueless guy. Each man has their own idea of "romance" and for some it's flowers and chocolates everyday, for other's it's a little heart felt "I love you" every once in a while. BUT, every women needs romance in their life and this takes communication. Maybe he thinks he's being romantic and she just doesn't see it because it doesn't fit into her ideal of romance?

Now, the thing about not helping out around the house...that has just got to stop! I'm sorry, if he lives there, eats there and sleeps there he should be doing something to help out. You didn't notice if you said your friend works or not, but even if she doesn't, it wouldn't hurt him to wash the dishes occasionally or throw in a load of laundry.

I have a hard time talking to DH about some issues because emotions flare. I usually write a letter and give it to him. That allows me to take the time to say exactly what I want to say (and edit as needed) and it gives HIM time to read, get mad, re-read, think, and read again and be willing to discuss issues. It's an idea.

Good luck friend!
(since we know you are reading the responses now)!
 

addiebee

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Originally Posted by silvionc

Alright, so here is the situation. My friend and I were debating this recently. My friend is married, very unhappily married. There is absolutely nothing wrong with her husband, he is sweet, funny, caring, he is just boring, and lazy. In the last 2 years he has done 2 romantic things for her, has said I love you 3 times, doesn’t do many chores, has never cooked, done laundry, cleaned litters, etc. His only chore is to take out the garbage, which she normally does.

She has tried talking to him about this but he honestly and truly does not understand. He believes that because he does his chores once a month or so, and he has done a couple romantic things that he should be praised for it. He doesn’t understand that she has done these things everyday for 2 years, and him doing it once in a blue moon doesn’t cut it. He honestly thinks he does enough.

Now for the romance part. This gets personal so pardon me lol. To keep things alive she used to initiate things in the bedroom a few times a week. She got tired of this and stopped. They haven’t done anything in months, she has mentioned it and he said “so come onto me” he doesn’t understand that she needs him to be romantic with her. She feels she is doing everything, and doesn’t feel she should do this especially if she resents him for not understanding the situation.

I forgot to mention that my friend is absolutely beautiful. She walks into a room and every single guy stares, I hate her
. She came to me the other day telling me everything I mentioned above (in longer detail) and said she is on the verge of cheating. She said she is craving the attention from her boyfriend but has no problem (as in guys are willing to give her attention, not that she is seeking it) getting it elsewhere. She mentioned she was lightly flirting with a guy at work, and said if he came onto her it would be hard to hold back. She isn’t even attracted to this guy, at all… but she is so lonely and tired of feeling like a “Mom” to her boyfriend, she feels insecure about herself, all sorts of emotions. She says the way this guy looks at her makes all of that go away. But she has no feelings for him, she just likes the way he makes her feel.

So my question…after a long story lol. How honest is too honest? I told her to tell her boyfriend exactly what she told me, including the guy at work situation. She has spoken to her boyfriend time after time for years and he STILL doesn’t get it. Maybe mentioned the guy would get him on his game.

Keep in mind her boyfriend is a good guy, so no need to bash lol. He is always there for her, calls if hes going to be late, then will call every 30min for an update, wants to spend all his time with her and will cancel important plans if she cant go, hes just a very trusting, good guy, just boring.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that we discussed him cheating on her. She said that she would be pissed… but mostly because he was “getting some” and she wasn’t… I told her to tell him this as well… too honest?
OK - I'm confused.


Are they or are they not married. Marriage obviously adds a legal dimension to all of this. That said, I wouldn't put up with this. There has to be a way to reach this guy - maybe he needs some 2x4 (shock) therapy. First- tell your friend not to cheat. That will not solve anything.

Second - try again to have a heart to heart with him. No distractions like TV, computer. She needs to be plain with him, no soft-ball or fuzzy statements, but she needs to back them up. Not necessarily an ultimatim... but firm clear-cut statements. Our relationship needs to change; I am not your mother, I am your partner; I don't think we have a partnership - uneven playing field. You do not consider what is important to make this relationship work and as it currently stands it is not working for ME. There is an unequal investment. If things do not change, I will end this. (And she would HAVE TO MEAN IT!!)

I, too, have a boyfriend whom I consider to be lazy about our relationship. And sometimes I think he takes me for granted. It's not nearly as bad as your friend's relationship. My guy WILL do tasks like sweep the garage and take out the garbage, minor household repairs. Actually, he's glad to. But he is very UNromantic. He refuses to make plans- keeps telling me I'm better at it. So what, maybe I would like a nice surprise sometime, Sheesh!

But some of this is MY fault in that I baby him, and wait on him.. I have slowly been changing that b/c the message is that HE is more important in this relationship than I am. That is not healthy. For either of us.

And just when I am ready to tell him what I think, he goes and does something nice! Like when I don't think he's contributing enough $$ to the household - he just hands me cash and says here this is for groceries and gas! (He is here approx half the week.)

I wish your friend good luck. But there is no reason to stay with someone simply because he's "nice". Maybe he should just be a good friend. Sometimes I think my BF would be better off in that category - friend and companion.

ETA: OK - HUSBAND changes things. They need marriage counseling pronto!!!!! They need to learn how to communicate with each other clearly and to understand what the other wants from this union. And the I/YOU should eventually become WE in the conversation - that's where a good MC comes in.
 

strange_wings

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Originally Posted by calico2222

Each man has their own idea of "romance" and for some it's flowers and chocolates everyday, for other's it's a little heart felt "I love you" every once in a while.
Exactly. My DH doesn't do romantic things - sure I get chocolate sometimes (which he usually eats most of
), but I don't get flowers unless you count plants for outside. Does this bother me? No! DH and I are so much alike that I wouldn't know how to accept and deal with sentimental things if he did do them.

Maybe this is too far out for some to grasp but there are some theories about personality typing. MBTI which pulls a lot from Jung categorizes everything into 16 types. My point, some of those types are a lot better with emotional dealings and feelings than other types. For example, I'm an INTJ - very strongly T (thinking). The opposite function to that is Feeling. In other words emotional responses to things tend to go right over my head. Luckily my DH is an ISTJ with a strong T as well. Otherwise there would be a lot of hurt feelings around here. We're also both completely boring people.


Maybe he's a thinking type? It's more common in males and if she's a feeling type would create a bit of a rift. He wouldn't see the reason to do those things she craves. Everyone with problems in this area should consider basic difference in personality and while this is something someone can mature and change a little bit, you cannot change your personality (short of mental disease).

If the boyfriend or husband says he's no good at planing romantic things, maybe he's honestly telling the truth? Don't hold that against someone.

As for cleaning, maybe he works more hours? That part was left out of the post. But if she wants that to change she will simply have to sit down and actually talk to him about. No hinting around hoping he will get subtle cues. For the other parts of the relationship, maybe consoling - especially considering what she's thinking about... But chances are he thinks that he already shows he cares and loves her just by all the actions he does do.
 

darlili

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Have they considered counseling - sometimes objective, trained eyes can really see the dynamics in a relationship, and can have some good suggestions.
 

addiebee

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

Exactly. My DH doesn't do romantic things - sure I get chocolate sometimes (which he usually eats most of
), but I don't get flowers unless you count plants for outside. Does this bother me? No! DH and I are so much alike that I wouldn't know how to accept and deal with sentimental things if he did do them.

Maybe this is too far out for some to grasp but there are some theories about personality typing. MBTI which pulls a lot from Jung categorizes everything into 16 types. My point, some of those types are a lot better with emotional dealings and feelings than other types. For example, I'm an INTJ - very strongly T (thinking). The opposite function to that is Feeling. In other words emotional responses to things tend to go right over my head. Luckily my DH is an ISTJ with a strong T as well. Otherwise there would be a lot of hurt feelings around here. We're also both completely boring people.


Maybe he's a thinking type? It's more common in males and if she's a feeling type would create a bit of a rift. He wouldn't see the reason to do those things she craves. Everyone with problems in this area should consider basic difference in personality and while this is something someone can mature and change a little bit, you cannot change your personality (short of mental disease).

1) If the boyfriend or husband says he's no good at planing romantic things, maybe he's honestly telling the truth? Don't hold that against someone.

As for cleaning, maybe he works more hours? That part was left out of the post. But if she wants that to change she will simply have to sit down and actually talk to him about. 2) No hinting around hoping he will get subtle cues. For the other parts of the relationship, maybe consoling - especially considering what she's thinking about... But chances are he thinks that he already shows he cares and loves her just by all the actions he does do.
1. That was partly me, I think. Yeah, it bothers me. Not just romantic planning, but ANY planning. Like if we go away for a weekend - I end up doing all the ground work. He shows up with his toothbrush and a change of undies and says - what are we doing? THAT I resent. To me that's just lazy... I mean if I did all the work and he paid my way, I would consider that fair, but that isn't what happens. Again, partly my fault.

2. That is a BIG for sure! You cannot be subtle with men. It doesn't work. Even if you are trying to lure them into the bedroom!
 

goldenkitty45

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IMO they need some serious counseling if the marriage is gonna continue. Its not fair to either of them in what is going on or not going on.

Marriage is not a 50/50 relationship - its a 100/100 - each person has to contribute 100% to the marriage. When you are only giving 50% you have a lot of problems.

Maybe a trial separation is needed to snap him out of things. Did she know what he really was like when she married him? Did she think he would improve or that she could "fix" him? If so, then she made the mistake (like a lot of us do).

After our bad 1st marriages, we learned a lot of very important lessons. And before we married each other - we made sure this was a person we could live with and accept all faults without trying to "fix or change" the other into what we wanted them to be.
 

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AddieBee - The first part was partially to you, but the second part was to everyone. I don't think it's strictly a male thing, as I said, I have those problems myself.


Instead of expecting him to plan, pull him aside and make him work with you. The same with packing. Get him excited about it, force him to give his opinion on certain activities. Include food. No one can say no to food. My DH will jump in on anything if it means he'll get seafood.


He's not lazy, it's just simply not something he's good at. Likely he trusts your choices so much that he feels you would do a great enough job on your own.
 

valanhb

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How honest is too honest? If it's between divorce and being honest, I go with honest every time.

She needs to be honest with him, and let him know just how frustrated she is in the relationship. No beating around the bush or hinting. Like others have said, that just doesn't work. She needs to sit down with him with a plan to fix it, i.e. marriage counseling so they can learn to communicate better and so they can learn to understand each other better, but tell him what the alternative is. If she's really considering cheating on her husband, in all fairness he should be given the chance to fix the problem. The fix may be more than just trying harder; the fix may mean utilizing professional assistance to gain a better understanding of each other and the "whys" behind the actions.
 

pookie-poo

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Cheating in a marriage is never acceptable behavior. End of discussion.

If she's unhappy, and he doesn't care, then she should suggest (or perhaps, demand) counseling. If he refuses, she needs to get out of the marriage. Then she is free to pursue any type of relationship she desires. If she wishes to have a 'fling' with the guy at work, she has no reason not to.
 

whiteforest

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Personally, I've had to learn to live with a lack of "romance" because I've realized that my husband just has no clue. It's fine with me because while he doesn't bring me flowers or gifts, light candles or take me on picnics...our relationship is perfect. I've gone the road of "why can't you ever do romantic things for me?" and his responses have been things like "I made you tea yesterday" or "I did the dishes". He didn't grow up seeing his parents being affectionate or romantic, so he really doesn't get it, and I'm okay with that now.

If you can't seem to work it out on your own, I'd definitely suggest therapy. If it's purely a lack of affection and romance, it sounds like it could be worth working toward, but cheating is going to make things FAR worse than they ever were.
 

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My husband has told me a few times in various context, that if a guy isn't wanting to have sex with his wife/girlfriend, he IS having sex somewhere. He says that most every guy still has a sex drive like they did in high school, unless he is on a drug that lowers it (like pot). My sister's boyfriend has that problem. He smokes too much pot, then he can never...get it up.

The not saying "I love you" brings up red flags in the above department for me also. My husband and I say I love you multiple times per day. Every time one of us goes somewhere, every time we get off the phone, when we go to sleep at night, and various other times during the day.

My husband doesn't do "romantic" things for me, per say. He doesn't bring flowers

I say a serious talk needs to be in order, and relationship counseling needs to be thought about.

I for one am probably the lazy one in our relationship. I hate housework, like dishes and cleaning. I don't mind laundry, but it just takes FOREVER and I end up losing interest so most of it never gets folded. The only thing I'm OCD about is our yard/garden. I'm the one that mows the yard and does the trimming with the weed whipper and then blows it all off with the blower thingy. LOL If it were my husband's choice, we would have green dyed concrete instead of grass, so he didn't have to mow. He refuses to do trimming or blowing, so I have to go in and do it anyway, so might as well mow also.
 

strange_wings

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Originally Posted by kara_leigh

My husband has told me a few times in various context, that if a guy isn't wanting to have sex with his wife/girlfriend, he IS having sex somewhere. He says that most every guy still has a sex drive like they did in high school, unless he is on a drug that lowers it (like pot).
Maybe, maybe not. The drive might be there but not every guy is going to cheat because of it. If that were there case, what about all the couples that can't have sex for some reason - ie, one of them is stationed overseas, on the road a lot/traveling, one is too sick.
Tests have found over and over again that men in committed relationships, and especially those with children, don't have as high of levels of testosterone as single men do. Natures way of keeping the men from straying.

That and you need to take into account that everyone is different.
 

kara_leigh

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

Maybe, maybe not. The drive might be there but not every guy is going to cheat because of it. If that were there case, what about all the couples that can't have sex for some reason - ie, one of them is stationed overseas, on the road a lot/traveling, one is too sick.
Tests have found over and over again that men in committed relationships, and especially those with children, don't have as high of levels of testosterone as single men do. Natures way of keeping the men from straying.

That and you need to take into account that everyone is different.
He's saying that if a man is in a relationship and around the woman, and refuses over and over again to have sex (on a regular basis), a lot of the time it is b/c they are cheating. I never said that ALL men cheat b/c they can't have sex. As I recall I said that my sister's boyfriend "can't" have sex b/c he's always too stoned, but as far as I know he isn't cheating.

Not all people stationed overseas stayed committed. There are A LOT that don't.

I'm not saying that this guy IS cheating, but if he is a normal, healthy guy, then there HAS to be a reason that he refuses to have sex with his girlfriend/wife.

She didn't mention that they had children, either. My husband and I have a child, and his sex drive is worse than it was in high school. That theory is wrong in his case. His sex drive has only gotten stronger as he's aged, and he was pretty f*in horny when he was in high school.
 
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