Taking the plunge into raw.

Due to my immune issues I DO NOT allow cuddling after eating and I wash and sanitize my hands before and after handling my kittys or the food ( cooked included ).. I also have multiple means of sanitizing in every room of the house

Originally Posted by sharky

Due to my immune issues I DO NOT allow cuddling after eating and I wash and sanitize my hands before and after handling my kittys or the food ( cooked included ).. I also have multiple means of sanitizing in every room of the house

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Given your situation, I assume you would have to take these precautions whether you were feeding raw or not??

Originally Posted by mschauer

Given your situation, I assume you would have to take these precautions whether you were feeding raw or not??

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yes but I take one extra step because of the raw ... If I feed dry kibble and used a scoop would have little need to do this ... I have gotten a few skin infections since feeding raw , my fault of course not the foods

You know what I think? I think the public (myself included) have had it hammered into our psyches that raw meat is (que the spooky music) DANGEROUS, when, in fact, it's really not so much. If it were truly riddled with e. coli, salmonella, etc., I'm betting a lot more people would be dropping dead than we currently hear about.

Did you guys know that both e. coli and salmonella are actually contaminants? They come from waste products and shouldn't be on our food to begin with.

Pardon me, I'm gonna go pin a kitty down for a hug.

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

You know what I think? I think the public (myself included) have had it hammered into our psyches that raw meat is (que the spooky music) DANGEROUS, when, in fact, it's really not so much. If it were truly riddled with e. coli, salmonella, etc., I'm betting a lot more people would be dropping dead than we currently hear about.

Did you guys know that both e. coli and salmonella are actually contaminants? They come from waste products and shouldn't be on our food to begin with.

Pardon me, I'm gonna go pin a kitty down for a hug.

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Yes ,I knew and that is why I often pre skinned all meats ... I have a very off immune system and animals with off immune systems and other than me getting a few skin infections ( very common with my issue) none have gotten what I call ACTUAL sick... Thou Two vets in my area have some patients who did, no deaths ....

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

You know what I think? I think the public (myself included) have had it hammered into our psyches that raw meat is (que the spooky music) DANGEROUS, when, in fact, it's really not so much. If it were truly riddled with e. coli, salmonella, etc., I'm betting a lot more people would be dropping dead than we currently hear about.

Did you guys know that both e. coli and salmonella are actually contaminants? They come from waste products and shouldn't be on our food to begin with.

Pardon me, I'm gonna go pin a kitty down for a hug.

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People getting sick from salmonella does happen. There's the current peanut butter scare and recently and not the first time contamination from dry pet food:

http://www.webmd.com/news/20070829/p...src=RSS_PUBLIC

I don't know that there is really any significant increased risk from feeding raw to pets as long as the same precautions are followed as are followed when handling our own raw meat before cooking it.

I think you're right though. We have had it so beaten into to us that meat shouldn't be eaten raw that it doesn't occur to us to question exactly how significant the risk is. Same with a lot of other things I think. Frequently the benefits of something far outstrip any risk but the risks are all that anyone talks about.

Maybe risk/benefit analysis should be taught in grade school .

Originally Posted by mschauer

Frequently the benefits of something far outstrip any risk but the risks are all that anyone talks about.

Maybe risk/benefit analysis should be taught in grade school

.

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Yep, and yep.

It's after 1:30 in the morning here. I just finished cutting, chopping, bagging, weighing and labeling 10 chicken wings, 10 chicken breasts with ribs, 20 chicken quarters, 4 pounds of beef round stew, 2 pounds of liver (that stuff is way weird to handle *shudder*), two cornish hens, half a dozen turkey drumsticks, and 1 pound of (freaking expensive) quail. I'm exhausted!

I still have several pounds of pork something or another, but it's in two humongous pieces and I'm just not up to cutting it down right now.

I'm well pleased. I've got a freezer full of good food and I'll be picking up 13 pounds of chicken hearts on Friday to add to it. My guys are in heaven.

I've received a pm about the "dangers" of feeding pork....

Folks, there aren't any! Cats all over the world eat raw pork just fine, some even eat it exclusively. If you're in a still developing country, there might be some issues, but commercial pork from the US, Canada, a few EU countries and Australia is perfectly safe (in fact, if you live in Australia, your peace of mind should be even greater - they have NEVER had a problem with trichinosis!).

Again, we're all brainwashed about meat being ridden with evil, killing germs. Don't believe it, my friends!

On a totally different note, just for kicks and giggles, I'm picking up some bison meat tonight. I want to see if I can find something my carnivorous little friends WON'T eat.

May you not have the issues KNOWN with pork and a few other meats ... I have researched that one after several vets , none who had issue s with raw feeding gave the warning and some horrors to go with it

this is a study written 8 months ago going off the pork is clean thought

http://esciencenews.com/articles/200...eria.parasites

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

Folks, there aren't any! Cats all over the world eat raw pork just fine, some even eat it exclusively. If you're in a still developing country, there might be some issues, but commercial pork from the US, Canada, a few EU countries and Australia is perfectly safe (in fact, if you live in Australia, your peace of mind should be even greater - they have NEVER had a problem with trichinosis!).

Again, we're all brainwashed about meat being ridden with evil, killing germs. Don't believe it, my friends!

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My quick research seems to confirm this. While trichinosis infected pork was once more common it is now considered a rarity in commercially produced pork.

When something was once conventional thinking it can take time for updated information to take hold.

Trichinosis parasites die if frozen for three weeks, so even in the countries where it's common, it can be addressed.

Sharky, I read the article you referenced. Here is an excerpt from it (Please note: This study was done on antibiotic-free farms, NOT on normal pig farms):

More than half of the pigs on antibiotic-free farms tested positive for Salmonella, compared to 39 percent of conventionally raised pigs infected with the bacterial pathogen. The presence of the Toxoplasma gondii parasite was detected in 6.8 percent of antibiotic-free pigs, compared to 1.1 percent of conventionally raised pigs. And two naturally raised pigs of the total 616 sampled tested positive for Trichinella spiralis, a parasite considered virtually eradicated from conventional U.S. pork operations.

The emphasis is mine.

I have not yet found a source for antibiotic-free pork, but even it I did, I'd just freeze the pork before I fed it. Hundreds of raw-feeders around the world are experiencing no issues with raw foods, pork or otherwise.

Mschauer is right, it takes a long, long time for fears to fade, even after the threat has gone. I understand your concerns, Sharky, but I don't share them.

I hope for the kitties sake you are right... here you have to look for conventional pork ... I know of too many issues with certain things to turn a blind eye

Hmmm. I think I resent your "blind eye" remark, Jen. I haven't insulted you or pretended your cats were in any danger due to your beliefs, I'll thank you to extend me the same courtesy.

In addition, the report YOU cited clearly states trichinosis is not a threat in the US, so your remark is doubly disingenuous.

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

Hmmm. I think I resent your "blind eye" remark, Jen. I haven't insulted you or pretended your cats were in any danger due to your beliefs, I'll thank you to extend me the same courtesy.

In addition, the report YOU cited clearly states trichinosis is not a threat in the US, so your remark is doubly disingenuous.

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that is not the only issue with pork

I am working off knowledge from several vets in my area losing patients to pork being feed raw or under cooked ... NONE from trichinosis

also many of the more reputable raw feeding vets say steer clear from it for a variety of reasons ...

Originally Posted by sharky

May you not have the issues KNOWN with pork and a few other meats ... I have researched that one after several vets , none who had issue s with raw feeding gave the warning and some horrors to go with it

this is a study written 8 months ago going off the pork is clean thought

http://esciencenews.com/articles/200...eria.parasites

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I think anyone reading that article realizes that "horrors" is overstating the situation just a bit!

As usual I urge everyone to do their own research and come to their own conclusions. There are strong, and not necessarily empirically substantiated, beliefs on both sides.

From the article:

The pathogens generally do not cause illness in the animals

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Sharky says...:

Originally Posted by sharky

that is not the only issue with pork

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But doesn't actually tell us what these "issues" are so we can protect ourselves.

Sharky says...:

Originally Posted by sharky

I am working off knowledge from several vets in my area losing patients to pork being feed raw or under cooked ... NONE from trichinosis

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More vague warnings. Scary comments without facts to back them up don't help anyone, they only cause needless fear.

And again, Sharky claims:

Originally Posted by sharky

also many of the more reputable raw feeding vets say steer clear from it for a variety of reasons ...

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But doesn't actually tell us what "reasons" she's talking about so we could learn from her experiences.

Sharky, due to your rudeness to me and the constant unspecified threats against raw feeding that you continue to make, I request that you apologize to me and stop posting your vague warnings.

This thread is supposed to be about my wonderful experiences upgrading the foods I feed my furchildren, not a defense of my choice to do so.

Well since you can do all your research and have only need for those in complete agreement I am sure you can find the vets and their reasons against ... Vague is to get you to research what many already know ...

Anyway, back to the original topic.

I fed chicken breast with ribs tonight. This time, I did not remove any bone at all, although I admit to some trepidation. Would they be able and willing to handle the bone?

pfh! What was I thinking? These guys know they are carnivores! Not only did they eat every scrap, they ate it a whole lot faster than I would have credited.

*shakes head in wonderment*

I hit what may be a small bump in the smooth ride, however. For breakfast, I served beef round stew pieces. The chunks were quite large, but no one had any trouble eating them. Rachel, my once thin kitty, ate more than is usual for her.... but about an hour later, threw some of it back up. Normally, because she ate so much, I'd shrug it off as a reaction to that, however, several days ago, I fed beef for dinner and then again for the evening meal - and someone threw up a very small amount after the second meal.

So I'm thinking Rachel either needs to slow down a bit, or she might have some intolerance to beef; I know that's not an uncommon occurrence.

Have to keep an eye on that!

I am with you on the ... OH MY I am giving bone and all... But it is fun to watch

DUMB ?? was beef a regular canned item>?? Did the pieces have lots of fat/??

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

Anyway, back to the original topic.

I fed chicken breast with ribs tonight. This time, I did not remove any bone at all, although I admit to some trepidation. Would they be able and willing to handle the bone?

pfh! What was I thinking? These guys know they are carnivores! Not only did they eat every scrap, they ate it a whole lot faster than I would have credited.

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I'm still amazed at how well they've all accepted raw. Whole raw no less! I think what you said early in the thread is probably right on the money. You've always fed a wide variety of foods so they never fixated on anything. A lesson for us all!

I hit what may be a small bump in the smooth ride, however. For breakfast, I served beef round stew pieces. The chunks were quite large, but no one had any trouble eating them. Rachel, my once thin kitty, ate more than is usual for her.... but about an hour later, threw some of it back up. Normally, because she ate so much, I'd shrug it off as a reaction to that, however, several days ago, I feed beef for dinner and then again for the evening meal - and someone threw up a very small amount after the second meal.

So I'm thinking Rachel either needs to slow down a bit, or she might have some intolerance to beef; I know that's not an uncommon occurrence.

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Maybe she's swallowing chunks that are too big? Maybe she just needs a little more gnawing practice!