Taking the plunge into raw.

The squirrel wasn't ready for me today, so I picked up some frozen mice instead. I'm happy to say three of my five cats found their inner tiger.

I was so proud of them while I watched them eat! I took some pics but I've decided not to post them; as natural as this behavior is, it can still be disturbing. Lots of folks don't like snakes because of their diet, but our cats eat the exact same prey in the wild. I actually felt a shift in my perception while I was watching them eat. Kinda weird, really.

The other two, Rachel and Meghan, were like, "You're kidding, right?"

this is all very interesting to me as I've been contemplating trying raw with my boys.

Harley loves raw meat, he'll even eat a relatively decent size piece.

Jack isn't so sure but he's taking to raw chicken now--he growls so fiercely, doesn't want me or Harley anywhere near him when he's eating it.

I've just been offering alittle of whatever we are making for dinner-before we prepare it. Usually raw chicken or alittle raw ground beef--mostly to gauge reaction.

I could have some rabbit and venison no problem--I'm debating what I've heard about using these sources, I know someone on another forum that feeds wild venison, duck, rabbit etc often, has been for a year or more and she's had no problems.

Leslie

Originally Posted by Jack31

I could have some rabbit and venison no problem--I'm debating what I've heard about using these sources, I know someone on another forum that feeds wild venison, duck, rabbit etc often, has been for a year or more and she's had no problems.
Leslie

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Obviously carnivores in the wild eat what they find in the wild. No doubt there is some added risk in feeding raw from an animal if you don't know what disease or parasites that animal might be harboring. Freezing for at least 3 weeks kills some bacteria and parasites but isn't 100%. I don't know how you can measure that risk and compare it to the risks from feeding a processed diet. If you come up with a way, let me know!

Not to hijack--but I agree how do you weigh that risk. My husband and his family eat these animals all the time--granted cooked.

I am highly thinking about it.

My dad even has some pheasant or quail, that came from a farm where he shot it, so I may feed some of that, if they'll eat it.

I need to look for a local vet who might find raw acceptable I don't know that our vet would...

Leslie

I've done a ton of research and read article after article from folks who've been feeding or recommending raw food for years (some for decades) - I've yet to come across a single instance of a cat, dog, or owner becoming ill from feeding raw food.

Cats and dogs have a shorter digestive tract with a specific enzyme mix that evolved to process raw meat. It took me a while to get to this point, but based on everything I've read, I'm comfortable feeding raw food, both human-grade and wild-caught.

And you're not hijacking anything, Jack31 - I welcome any discussion of raw foods in this thread.

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

I've done a ton of research and read article after article from folks who've been feeding or recommending raw food for years (some for decades) - I've yet to come across a single instance of a cat, dog, or owner becoming ill from feeding raw food.

Cats and dogs have a shorter digestive tract with a specific enzyme mix that evolved to process raw meat. It took me a while to get to this point, but based on everything I've read, I'm comfortable feeding raw food, both human-grade and wild-caught.

And you're not hijacking anything, Jack31 - I welcome any discussion of raw foods in this thread.

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it is not common but illness and death has occurred from cats and dogs eating raw food... some on this board have lost animals to bacterial infections from raw feeding ... after reading this I talked with my vet and asked , she HAS to date NOT had any issues other than parasites from raw feed animals ... I have myself raw feed animals with compromised immune systems without issue ( but I also know to the farm 85% of the meat I and they eat )

Originally Posted by sharky

... some on this board have lost animals to bacterial infections from raw feeding ...

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You have been asked before to specifiy how many "some" is and you never have. Can you do so now please?

As as been discussed before there is only one case of a pet dying possibly as a result of eating raw for which the details have been made known in this forum and in that case the pet was eating food of an unknown source not fed to it by its owner. If there are others and the particulars of what happened are known I would really like to hear about them so I can learn from their unhappy experience. If the particulars aren't known then it is useless information as it can't be known exactly what caused the problem.

Originally Posted by sharky

it is not common but illness and death has occurred from cats and dogs eating raw food... some on this board have lost animals to bacterial infections from raw feeding ...

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Hi, Sharky!

Now, you know better than to drop such a vague statement and run. That'd be like me posting a warning about contaminated canned food that killed some cats without naming brands, timeframes, symptoms or anything else that would help concerned owners identify the product and make sure their cats are ok.

What we'd need here is the items fed, the source, and the feeding protocol (ground, frozen, frankenprey, etc.), and the cause of illness/death. Until we have that, we can't do anything with this info.

This is a great discussion. Thanks to everyone who's joined in!

They had their first raw beef dinner tonight. I was kinda skeptical about offering it because I've read that beef is an iffy prospect for most cats.

Not at my house. Between the five of them, they downed just a hair over a pound of Round Stew Meat in about ten minutes flat. And I gave it to them exactly as it came out of the package, in nice big chunks straight out of the fridge.

Man, I'm loving this.

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

They had their first raw beef dinner tonight. I was kinda skeptical about offering it because I've read that beef is an iffy prospect for most cats.

Not at my house.

Between the five of them, they downed just a hair over a pound of Round Stew Meat in about ten minutes flat. And I gave it to them exactly as it came out of the package, in nice big chunks straight out of the fridge.

Man, I'm loving this.

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Sounds like your furries are loving it too! You're going to have some very happy, healthy kitties!

Mine like beef also. Have you tried venison yet? One of mine likes it and one doesn't.

Are they gnawing on bones yet?

Yes, they are. If the bones are small enough, they'll eat them completely. From about small Cornish Hen drumstick size up, they'll just chew on the ends.

I haven't tried venison yet. I've got to find a source for it and check the prices. Now that I've established the cats'll eat pretty much anything, I need to do the calculations to determine how much of what to buy for any given week, then take a look at Hare Today and Rodent Pro to create my first order.

I'm seriously leaning toward to getting mostly whole prey (mice, baby chicks, quail, rabbit pieces, etc.) with maybe some diced chicken and beef thrown in every now and then. It's so much easier than trying to cut down a whole hen or chicken, you know? I have to do a cost/benefit analysis first, but even if it's a bit pricier for the whole prey diet, I'm willing to spend it for the convenience. I REALLY dislike cutting down those whole birds!

Today is two weeks and two days I've been feeding at least one raw meal a day to my cats. About a week in, they became reluctant to eat their canned meals and a few days ago, began leaving more canned than they were eating.

Because they've done so well accepting everything I've offered (with the single exception of the whole mice: after two acceptable meals, they began eating only the top half of the mice ) and the improvement I've seen in their coats and their energy levels - despite the fact I was watching them closely for possible negative reactions to their change in diet and was NOT, with only a single raw meal a day, expecting any positive changes - I decided to give them what they want and feed them entirely raw.

So I sat down and (finally) performed the calculations necessary to plan their diet (3% of food by weight with 80%/10%/5%/5% meat/bones/liver/other organ respectively). And guess what I found out?

The buggers are supposed to be eating around 9 ounces shared between the five of them per meal, NOT the pound and a quarter they've been gobbling down every night! I repeated my calculations several times to make sure I was doing it right, and there is no doubt about it.

I guess that explains the 6.5 ozs Allen's gained, the 6 ozs Rachel's put on and the 3.5 ozs Meghan's added in the last two weeks. In Rachel's case, I'm happy about the weight increase - she has always been too thin for my comfort and has steadfastly refused to gain no matter what I fed her. The kittens have picked up quite a bit, too, but I don't mind since they're so young and Heather was another too-thin kitty.

I spent several days trying to find sources and figure out the best way to handle the ingredients with little progress, and then I got a call from local raw-feeder who had heard I was looking for help. She gave me some very awesome, very specific tips (not to mention a grinder she's no longer using!) and, together with my research, I've been able to put together a menu I am comfortable with. (The best tip she gave me - I can order any amount of anything Whole Foods sells and they will grind it up for free!)

I wanted to continue to feed as much chunked meat as possible, but needed a way to get the bones and other stuff into their diet, too, so I divided their monthly numbers by three and calculated the percentages so that meat alone could be fed twice a day and a ground combo of meat, bone, heart, liver, organ and supplements could be fed for breakfast every morning. Feeding them this way, their ratios are balanced at the end of every day, which I like a lot. (I know everyone says they can be balanced over a whole week, but if I can do it daily, so much the better, right?)

Today, I made the following Whole Foods order: 10 lbs chicken wings, 13 lbs chicken hearts, and 5.5 lbs chicken liver. This will be mixed with 6.5 lbs of ground chicken breast and some salmon oil, vitamins B complex and E, Taurine and maybe a multigland supplement. This mixture will last for two months and, with 9 ozs of raw chicken, beef, whatever I can get my hands on, for their lunch and dinner meals, will cost me an estimated $240.

Compare that to the $200 I was spending every single month for canned food!

So glad to hear your cats chose the raw over canned. Raw works, keep us posted!

I offered turkey for the first time tonight. It was supposed to be chunked meat I cut off a turkey thigh (wow, those tendons are TOUGH), but by the time I was done peeling the bones bare, I think the food was more mush than chunky.

In any case, they LOVED it. Clearly, turkey will be a favorite around here.

This thread is sooo funny! and informative of course

Is it cheaper to feed raw? Mine are on a almost grain free diet, and my youngest was raised on raw food. so im thinging about it. sounds very entertaining!

Once you find good sources for your ingredients, feeding raw food is CONSIDERABLY cheaper than buying canned.

In the above post, I went from paying $200 per month for canned to about $240 for every TWO months feeding raw. Last night, however, I found a source of turkey for only $1.29 pound and chicken for only $.59 cents per pound. That cuts my grocery bill IN HALF.

So, yeah, you bet it's cheaper. Add to that a considerably reduced litter box load since the cats are able to digest soooo much more of their food, and fewer vet visits (not to mention happier cats) and I think I've got myself a winner!

I'm glad it's still going so well!

With your current plan, will they only get ground bone, no whole? If so, are you satisfied that gnawing on muscle and organ chunks are enough for dental health?

Did you include the cost of supplements in your calculations? Depending on what you use they can be expensive. I know what I use is *too* expensive.

Are you using organic meats?

That's a good tip about Whole Foods. Will they grind everything together or seperately and you then combine it yourself? My local Whole Foods says they don't grind bone. Does yours say differently or are you planning on doing some of the grinding yourself?

I might immulate your plan at least in part. I need to get my cost down and your plan sounds easy and effective.

Thanks for sharing!

Hi, Mschauer!

While I will continue to try them on various size bones until I find a food that's both comfortable for them and something I can purchase on a reliable basis, for now, they'll get their minimum bone requirement through the ground breakfast. And considering what they were getting with the canned, yeah, I'm happy with the dental workout they get with two chunked meals a day.

The cost of taurine and salmon oil are included. The meat I'm buying is antibiotic and hormone free, but not necessarily organic. I didn't include the glandular supplement, 'cause it's not going to be a permanent additive.

The Whole Foods I placed my order with will grind everything separately. I'll combine the ingredients along with the supplements and then break it down and bag it by weight, two days to a bag.

"Easy and effective" is what I'm all about, Mschauer!

Just passing on a tip I learned tonight: To minimize the mess and necessary clean-up of a raw-feeding, spread a towel on the feeding surface and dump the food on the towel. Once everyone's done eating, simply roll the towel up and throw it in a (lidded) laundry hamper. Voila! Clean up over!

To all you other raw-feeders out there: Are you ever concerned about cuddling your cats after they've eaten? Mine use their paws to hold the food down sometimes and they almost always groom immediately after eating - but not always.

In all the research I've done and the folks I've talked to, I haven't come across a single instance of either cat or owner becoming ill as a result of raw feeding, but, given the above, what's the mechanic that keeps that from happening?

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

Just passing on a tip I learned tonight: To minimize the mess and necessary clean-up of a raw-feeding, spread a towel on the feeding surface and dump the food on the towel. Once everyone's done eating, simply roll the towel up and throw it in a (lidded) laundry hamper. Voila! Clean up over!

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Good tip!

In all the research I've done and the folks I've talked to, I haven't come across a single instance of either cat or owner becoming ill as a result of raw feeding, but, given the above, what's the mechanic that keeps that from happening?

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The world is awash with germs. We encounter them all day, every day. I don't know that there should be any more concern over the above scenario than there should be with cuddling them after they've been walking around the litter box.