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Smoking in vehicles with children

post #1 of 42
1/28/09 at 6:31am
Thread Starter 
Ontario passed a law making it illegal to smoke in a vehicle with children under the age of 16, in 2008.

Ontario's smoking laws:

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/sta...es_94t10_e.htm

The law I am talking about
Quote:
Protection for people under 16 years old in motor vehicles

9.2 (1) No person shall smoke tobacco or have lighted tobacco in a motor vehicle while another person who is less than 16 years old is present in the vehicle. 2008, c. 12, s. 1.
What do you think about this law? Are you in favor of it or do you think it takes away a person's right as a smoker?

Let's hear your views
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post #2 of 42
1/28/09 at 7:11am
I smoke, but I don't smoke in the car (or the house for that matter) if there are kids there. To me, that's common sense and common curtesy. I do the same if I'm around older people, or anyone I don't know well...unless they light up first.

Should it be a law? I don't know. I personally don't have a problem with that law, but what law will be passed next? We can't smoke outside because kids breath the air? We can't smoke in our homes because we might sell and someone with kids may buy it? (ridiculous, but I can see that one being passed).
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post #3 of 42
1/28/09 at 7:53am
I'm not a smoker (allergic, actually, so it's kind of a moot point for me) but I have no problem with the law. On one hand, it can be harmful to children to be around 2nd-hand smoke, but on the other it seems like they're trying to legislate common sense - and that's a pretty slippery slope...

As long as they don't take it much further, I'm okay with it.
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post #4 of 42
1/28/09 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
We can't smoke in our homes because we might sell and someone with kids may buy it? (ridiculous, but I can see that one being passed).
Some condos already regulate smoking:

http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pb...NEWS/901270307

I don't have an issue with this law, but I am also not a smoker.
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post #5 of 42
1/28/09 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbysMom View Post
Some condos already regulate smoking:

http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pb...NEWS/901270307

I don't have an issue with this law, but I am also not a smoker.
I can understand a ban in condo's that share a ventilation system, or apartments, but not in condos that are actually separate housing with separate air/heating systems. And, actually I was referring to a free standing house that isn't attached to any one else's house. We're on our own land in a house we are paying for. If someone tells me I can't smoke here, then I'm going to have a problem with it.
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post #6 of 42
1/28/09 at 11:42am
I'm a smoker and I'm all for this law. sure it takes away a smokers rights. But it saves a childs life ..Whats more important my smokers rights ?or a childs right to breath smoke free air?
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post #7 of 42
1/28/09 at 12:04pm
Sorry to be so blunt, but this is IMO...
I think anyone who smokes in a small enclosed area, such as a car, while others are present this day and age, knowing the harmful effects of second hand smoke is selfish and inconsiderate.
I think if the person present is a child, it is child abuse.
It should certianly be a law.
I am a former smoker. My husband smokes, but is considerate. Everyone I work with and all but 2 of my friends smoke.
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post #8 of 42
1/28/09 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake_Lady View Post
What do you think about this law? Are you in favor of it or do you think it takes away a person's right as a smoker?
I love this law and hope all places pass this as well as no smoking in public places, restaurants and the like. The problem is their decision to smoke can negatively impact many nearby, it is one thing for them to put the toxins in their body, but another to spread that to their own children and society. I grew up with smoker in the car not the house and even with windows cracked it caused one sibling to have breathing problems that persist to this day and I still get choked up around smoke as an adult, I can handle it but it is not something I like or will tolerate for long. I know it kills smokers and can make many health issues worse and is a risk factor. And know it can cause cancer. It makes me sad that so many are addicted
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post #9 of 42
1/28/09 at 12:29pm
Now if only they can pass laws preventing people who are saturated in smoke from sitting next to me on the bus, we'd be good to go It aggravates my asthma, so I just cough on them, hoping they'll move, but most of the time they're oblivious.
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post #10 of 42
1/28/09 at 12:30pm
It should apply to animals, as well. Yesterday I was driving down the street and a lady had this little tiny dog in her lap while she was smoking.
If you want to smoke be a considerate smoker to those around you! Period!
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post #11 of 42
1/28/09 at 1:09pm
I placed a cat several years ago after talking to the potential owner several times on the phone. Sounded good, but when I got there the place just reeked of smoke. I was only there a short time and it gave me a sore throat. I felt so bad leaving the cat there.

On the bright side, he peed on her bed and by 8:00 the next morning she was screaming at me over the phone to come get him.

No, I don't think people should smoke in a car or house with children inside.
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post #12 of 42
1/28/09 at 1:26pm
I don't think people should smoke in a car at all. It seems that it would be very difficult to drive while trying to smoke, cigarettes tossed out the windows cause numerous fires every year, it ruins the resale value of the car, and it is bad for other occupants of the car.
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post #13 of 42
1/28/09 at 1:38pm
We have the same law in B.C. . I don't think people should expose children to smoke. The health issues are well known.
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post #14 of 42
1/28/09 at 2:03pm
I feel I grew up when it was 'Still OK' to smoke in front of your children - even though I had severe asthma people would still smoke.

Like Rahma when people smoke near me I cough and splutter and carry on!

I'm all for people smoking in their own homes and vehicles (except when minors are present) but on the streets, in front of shops - disgusting!
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post #15 of 42
1/28/09 at 2:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms. Freya View Post
I'm not a smoker (allergic, actually, so it's kind of a moot point for me) but I have no problem with the law. On one hand, it can be harmful to children to be around 2nd-hand smoke, but on the other it seems like they're trying to legislate common sense - and that's a pretty slippery slope...

As long as they don't take it much further, I'm okay with it.
Unfortunately, not all people have the common sense tho I can't count how many times I've seen a car with young children in it, and 2 adults smoking with the window rolled down about an inch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat View Post
Sorry to be so blunt, but this is IMO...
I think anyone who smokes in a small enclosed area, such as a car, while others are present this day and age, knowing the harmful effects of second hand smoke is selfish and inconsiderate.
I think if the person present is a child, it is child abuse.
It should certianly be a law.
I am a former smoker. My husband smokes, but is considerate. Everyone I work with and all but 2 of my friends smoke.
I agree with you 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by cococat View Post
I love this law and hope all places pass this as well as no smoking in public places, restaurants and the like. The problem is their decision to smoke can negatively impact many nearby, it is one thing for them to put the toxins in their body, but another to spread that to their own children and society. I grew up with smoker in the car not the house and even with windows cracked it caused one sibling to have breathing problems that persist to this day and I still get choked up around smoke as an adult, I can handle it but it is not something I like or will tolerate for long. I know it kills smokers and can make many health issues worse and is a risk factor. And know it can cause cancer. It makes me sad that so many are addicted
I'm curious, what are the laws like there??? Here, you cannot smoke in restaurants, bars, etc. We used to have smoking areas in restaurants, that changed with laws a couple years back to having to have a seperate area walled off vented away, then it changed again to no smoking period. You can go outside to smoke...some places will have ummmm, a small shelter (roof, windbreak) but it cannot be closed in.

You can't smoke in places of employment anymore either. Most places you have to be X number of feet away from the door as well.
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post #16 of 42
1/28/09 at 2:33pm
i'm a smoker. i'm actually torn on this subject, tho.

personally, i would NEVER smoke if someone else was in the car unless that person was also smoking. this is because my dad, when i was a child, smoked a pipe. it would take him FOREVER to get it lit, & he never cracked a window - talk about choking!

when i do smoke in the car [alone] i always crack a window to cut down on the smell in the car.
the reason i'm torn is this - while i approve of people not smoking around others since this has been proven to affect their health, i'm not in favor of the government becoming the 'health police', for lack of a better term. i'm a true political conservative - i'm anti government involvement unless absolutely necessary.

it's easy to say that people shouldn't do things that are proved deleterious in some way [speeding, not wearing seatbelts, smoking, eating fattening foods, being sexually promiscuous, etc.] especially if that practice is not one you have... but, because it's so easy, it's also easy to say, 'well, we'll just make it illegal'. legislating personal habits, even dangerous ones, is a path towards big brother-dom.

who knows - perhaps the next law will be against an unsavory/unhealthy habit YOU [generic you] have?
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post #17 of 42
1/28/09 at 2:47pm
Thread Starter 
My opinion on this one:

First off, yes I am a smoker. Have been for ummmm 16yrs or so. (minus quitting for 2yrs).

Secondly, my husband does not smoke and I have 2 daughters ages 8 and 12.

I do not smoke in my home, nor do I smoke in my vehicle. Prior to having children, yes, I did smoke in my home occassionally. (rental) I have never smoked in my vehicle.

For the most part, I am a polite smoker. I respect that other people don't want to smell like an ashtray (I've quit, so I know how it stinks to a non-smoker) nor do they want to have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get where they are going. I respect that, and smoke away from doorways,crowds and the like but I will not hide to smoke.

I agree 100% with the not smoking in vehicles with children. I will NOT smoke in an enclosed place with a child present. Even outside, if there is children or non-smokers around, I move away from them. If adults chose to come talk to me while I'm smoking that is their choice.

Now, on the other hand:

Smokers have rights as well. Some OP's have already touched on it.... what if they tell me I cannot smoke in my own home? Even though I don't do that, I would not agree with it. My home, my land, is my property. Smoking itself is not illegal, so there is no reason I should not be allowed to smoke on or in my own property. I know that saying that, contradicts the above in the sense that my vehicle is my property as well. But I choose not to smoke in it because my children ride in it and my husband does... and face it, smoking does stink up a vehicle.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On another note: Just recently, laws have made stores that sell cigarettes have to cover up their displays. It used to be that cigarettes were seen behind the counter.... now they are hidden. The thought behind this is that if you can't see them, maybe less people will start smoking.
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post #18 of 42
1/28/09 at 2:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by laureen227 View Post

the reason i'm torn is this - while i approve of people not smoking around others since this has been proven to affect their health, i'm not in favor of the government becoming the 'health police', for lack of a better term. i'm a true political conservative - i'm anti government involvement unless absolutely necessary.
The way I look at this specific law is that it is protecting those who cannot protect themselves. An infant/child cannot just up and walk away from a smoke filled area. Why should we as smokers be allowed to take away their (children) right to not breath in second hand smoke.

If you look at it that way, I don't think its the government becoming the health police, its them trying to protect the rights of minors.

On the other hand tho, with all the legislation in place, I could see it becoming that. I don't feel it has yet....but if we keep going this way, it will be illegal to smoke anywhere, and that I do not agree with.
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post #19 of 42
1/28/09 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake_Lady View Post
The way I look at this specific law is that it is protecting those who cannot protect themselves. An infant/child cannot just up and walk away from a smoke filled area. Why should we as smokers be allowed to take away their (children) right to not breath in second hand smoke.

If you look at it that way, I don't think its the government becoming the health police, its them trying to protect the rights of minors.

On the other hand tho, with all the legislation in place, I could see it becoming that. I don't feel it has yet....but if we keep going this way, it will be illegal to smoke anywhere, and that I do not agree with.
I'm with you, Snake Lady.
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post #20 of 42
1/29/09 at 10:17am
It’s the health-cost rationale. Since the state pays medical bills, it has the right to dictate your choices, which is the danger than universal health care systems present to individual liberty.The whole universal health care plan hinges on them being able to control what you do, and if you aren't playing by the rules you will be penalized or even denied treatment.
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post #21 of 42
1/29/09 at 10:28am
I don't smoke; never have, never will.

I HATE it when my father smokes in his car, but, it's his car. I can't breathe well. I hate it.

That being said, I'm glad they are looking out for the minors. I wish there was a law to protect me, because even if I am an adult, I think it would be seen as pretty damn stupid if I did get out of the car when he started smoking (hello, car is MOVING?!). Lol.

But yeah, this is common sense to me, but, as was said, some people just don't have all that much common sense.
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post #22 of 42
1/29/09 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat View Post
Sorry to be so blunt, but this is IMO...
I think anyone who smokes in a small enclosed area, such as a car, while others are present this day and age, knowing the harmful effects of second hand smoke is selfish and inconsiderate.
I think if the person present is a child, it is child abuse.
It should certianly be a law.
I am a former smoker. My husband smokes, but is considerate. Everyone I work with and all but 2 of my friends smoke.


I'm a reformed smoker and my hubby still smokes. Before I got pregnant, DH would smoke in the apartment but only in the bathroom where the exhaust fan would keep it out of the rest of the apartment. Once I got pregnant he quit smoking inside all together. He also quit smoking with me in the car with few exceptions and he will not smoke in the car with our child either... no exceptions!

Like Snake-Lady said, it's about standing up for those who can't stand up for themselves. A car, even with the windows open, manages to trap and recirculate the smoke making it very hard for anyone in the car to get "clean" air. I think it makes sense.
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post #23 of 42
1/29/09 at 11:39am
Eric is a smoker and I was before I got pregant. I understand the reasoning behing this law, but I do not agree with it. I would never smoke in my car or inside, but it is peoples right to do so. Now I am not saying they have the right so smoke in a car with chirldern (or pets for that matter). It is polite and just common sense not to smoke when there are chirldern in the car. I can not agree with this law becasue it will only get worse. Whats next a law that says that you can not smoke in your home??

I think that the Government oversteps alot of its boundries. If they slowy keep taking away are rights and freedoms soon we will have nothing left. Even if it is a small thing like smoking. It starts here, but where will it end?
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post #24 of 42
1/29/09 at 11:43am
So when they pass the law banning soft drinks as they contribute to childhood obesity... or when they close all the McDonald's... when they automatically shut off television at 8pm.... where does it end?

This isn't just letting the government decide what is safest for our kids, its allowing them to decide what we can and can't do.

It's the responsibility of the parents to protect their children from (among other things) secondhand smoke. Criminalizing it won't prevent people from doing it, it just adds money to the public coffers when fines are paid.
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post #25 of 42
1/29/09 at 11:49am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emy4cats View Post
Eric is a smoker and I was before I got pregant. I understand the reasoning behing this law, but I do not agree with it. I would never smoke in my car or inside, but it is peoples right to do so.
What about the rights of the child? They cannot just refuse to go with their parents.... especially infants.

Are people saying that the rights of children are less important than a smoker's right to smoke in their vehicle?

I completely understand how this law can be looked at in the way of our government trying to control our lives more and more.

But I guess I choose to look at this law as: the government is protecting people who cannot protect themselves.

Now, if the law was just "No smoking in vehicles" period, that would be totally different. That IMHO would be overstepping boundries completely, invasion of personal life, etc.
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post #26 of 42
1/29/09 at 11:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neetanddave View Post

It's the responsibility of the parents to protect their children from (among other things) secondhand smoke. Criminalizing it won't prevent people from doing it, it just adds money to the public coffers when fines are paid.
Unfortunately some parents don't see the need to protect their children from the dangers of secondhand smoke or not even just parents.... anyone who smokes in an enclosed space with someone who is unable to make the choice whether to stay and risk the secondhand smoke dangers or leave.
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post #27 of 42
1/29/09 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emy4cats View Post
Eric is a smoker and I was before I got pregant. I understand the reasoning behing this law, but I do not agree with it. I would never smoke in my car or inside, but it is peoples right to do so. Now I am not saying they have the right so smoke in a car with chirldern (or pets for that matter). It is polite and just common sense not to smoke when there are chirldern in the car. I can not agree with this law becasue it will only get worse. Whats next a law that says that you can not smoke in your home??

I think that the Government oversteps alot of its boundries. If they slowy keep taking away are rights and freedoms soon we will have nothing left. Even if it is a small thing like smoking. It starts here, but where will it end?
It may be common sense to some and I also think that it wouldn't be a leap of that sense to think that maybe it's not smart to smoke around a pregnant woman as well (since what we breath our babies do too) but some people can't make the connection or don't even have the initial sense. My MIL (who I love) would never smoke in the house with a child but she doesn't give a second thought to lighting up while I'm in the room with her.
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post #28 of 42
1/29/09 at 12:11pm
I understand that we need to protect the rights of chirldern, like I said I do not agree with people smokeing in there cars with chirldern. You are right a child can not say I am not getting in the car with you becasue you are smoking Mom or Dad. Chirldern's rights are certinally not less imporant then any smokers. I thought we lived in a country of EQUAL rights. When it comes down to it prisiners have more rights then chirldern, but that is a different issue on its own.

I agree with neetanddave it is the PARENTS responsibilty to protect their chirldern, not the Governments. I understand that some parents do not see the dangers of seccond hand smoke and will make the poor decision to smoke in the car with their child. It is also the parents responsibilty to make sure their child is not getting in the car with someone who is going to smoke.

I would like to think that the law was passed to protect those who cannot protective themselves, but I can't. I personally feel that everytime a law is passed like this it just takes away one more of are rights and gives the government more power over us. When does it stop?

As neetanddave said it will not stop people from doing it. The law just puts money in their pocket.
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post #29 of 42
1/29/09 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emy4cats View Post
I understand that we need to protect the rights of chirldern, like I said I do not agree with people smokeing in there cars with chirldern. You are right a child can not say I am not getting in the car with you becasue you are smoking Mom or Dad. Chirldern's rights are certinally not less imporant then any smokers. I thought we lived in a country of EQUAL rights. When it comes down to it prisiners have more rights then chirldern, but that is a different issue on its own.

I agree with neetanddave it is the PARENTS responsibilty to protect their chirldern, not the Governments. I understand that some parents do not see the dangers of seccond hand smoke and will make the poor decision to smoke in the car with their child. It is also the parents responsibilty to make sure their child is not getting in the car with someone who is going to smoke.

I would like to think that the law was passed to protect those who cannot protective themselves, but I can't. I personally feel that everytime a law is passed like this it just takes away one more of are rights and gives the government more power over us. When does it stop?

As neetanddave said it will not stop people from doing it. The law just puts money in their pocket.
Why outlaw cigarette smoking for minors then? Why not leave it up to the parents to decide whether or not their children can smoke? Why not let them decide what age is appropriate to start drinking too?

If people behaved appropriately, we wouldn't need most laws.
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post #30 of 42
1/29/09 at 12:48pm
I know many people who smoke.....I don't (eww....). The entire concept of smoking in a house, building, car, etc.....to me...

enclosed area + smoke = dumb idea

That said, I don't understand the idea behind smoking. Here it is illegal to smoke in a public place. I was so happy when they came to be so, as smoke makes me physically ill. It made my life difficult to try to go out to eat, when if we ended up next to the smoking section, I couldn't eat as I would be nauseous.
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