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Diet closest to what cats eat in the wild, dont see it sold anywhere!

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
I was reading a book on cats called Your Cat: Simple new secrets to a longer, stronger life, by Elizabeth M. Hodgkins. It gave me a brand new 360 degree view on how much nutrition (or how much not) our cats are really getting from dry food and some canned foods. It completely took me by surprise, especially on the dry food.

To sum it up cause this post could be pages long....

for cat food to as closely replicate what cats eat in the wild nutrition wise (ideally) (for canned food I think) cat food should have high protein amounts ideally above 40%, moderate amounts of fat at 25-35%, and low carbohydrate amount at below 10%. Beef is the best choice ingredient followed by rabbit then chicken.

Dry food usually has 20-35% protein at most, 10-20% fat, and 25-50% carbohydrates. Most average dry food foods have even less fat and protein than listed here unless you pay quite a bit for them.

I checked my can of beef flavor Friskies canned food my cats eat and the Protein was at 9%, and Fat at a measly 2%. So basically my cats are severely lacking enough amounts of protein and with such low fat the food doesnt really fill them up much so they have to eat a lot to feel full.

The Author is 100% against feeding ANY dry food, stating it's the equivalent of feeding your kids sugary cereal like Lucky Charms all day with a few vitamins/minerals added. The Carbohydrates are the main ingredient like corn and rice and that breaks down to sugar not to mention doesnt fill your cat up very well, with chicken and beef and fish in very low quantities, focusing mainly on the beef which is great in protein. It's no wonder diabetes and overweight cats are so common! Not to mention cats, being mainly descendents of a desert dwelling species, get most of there water from their prey, and yet there is salt added in the dry cat food, which makes your cat drink more water than usual. And the greens, really no purpose than to add to the marketing price, though IMO SOME greens are good to replicate the food cats prey would eat, just not in huge quantities.

The Author suggests to feed raw/cooked beef/chicken, and ONLY canned cat food, to look for ones with the most protein and fair amount of fat, but not too much of fat. Meat baby food works good too as a treat or with canned food. And as treats, suggests freeze-dried meat treats. (Me personally, i've heard of them but never bought them.)

Nutrition charts of various foods (average listing)

"regular" dry food- protein-34% fat-22% carbohydrate-38%
premium canned food- protein- 42% fat-24% carbohydrate-28%
raw rabbit- protein-66% fat-4.5% carbohydrate-3.8%
raw chicken- protein-53% fat-27% carbohydrate-1% or less
turkey organ meat- protein-66% fat-11% carbohydrate-16%
beef heart- protein-66% fat-14.4% carbohydrate-9%
rat carcass- protein-55% fat-38% carbohydrate-2-3% average (in other words healthiest meal and nutrition to wild diet!)


So, with all this said, what should cats really be eating?

One of my cats is 5 pounds overweight, loves canned food and dry food equally. The other seldom eats canned food so mostly eats dry food, is slightly overweight, and drinks a TON of water.
post #2 of 19
NOT fool proof but AFTER talking with your vet ... wet food is roughly half the calories per oz as dry food...

realize the dry matter protein in your friskies ( which I try to avoid since it has artificial stuff)is between 36-45% so it is in the ball park of normal yes the fat is low ... higher end foods and kitten foods usually are higher in fat than grocery

IMHO there is NO right answer for feeding every cat ... I agree with beef and with most of what Dr.Hodgkins says( Note I do not agree 100% with any one on cat nutrition as much of it is still speculation ) ... BUT the majority of cats are not beef or rabbit fans ( I have beef lovers in my house) , Ie my vet was shocked I bought raw beef for mine as only one of hers and a handful of clients cats would eat raw or cooked beef....

I have lived with a number of cats and had acquaintance with MANY MANY other cats . Personally the youngest cat I had pass was nearly 15 and he was mostly outdoor.. Most live well into their teens on a dry /wet mix... The right diet IMHO does not exist as each cat is individual and we have Artificially increased lifespan...

Currently mine get no grain dry , premium canned , homemade ( prepared by an actual chef, not me lol) and raw ... I have solved issues through diet but all were different diets


FYI:ON ave Even cheap, dry foods have 30-40% protein ( mind you mostly from grain) but the cheaper foods usually have less fat ...
post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 
I guess what i'm asking is how can I improve my cats diet so they are healthier and getting more balanced nutrition. What brands of food do you think are best and how much should be fed?

I have 1 picky eater, and the other will eat almost anything put in front of her.
post #4 of 19
Tell me your budget ( I e what can you pay for what size ) , what they currently eat and what you can get ( Ie saying evo when you only have walmart would not help you )
post #5 of 19
I'm a huge fan of the book--although I was already pretty aware of the information on food I found other chapters more interesting--how she treats major health problems NOT using RX diets.

Anyway I agree with Sharky what works for one cat won't always work for the next but we can try and provide the best possible. The book gives you some great things to look out for ie grains are bad and not the source of protein our cats need--they need meat protein, they are carnivores after all.

Leslie
post #6 of 19
I dont know where this high protein thing is good. Maybe for kittens. But my vet and i have determined that this is the reason my cat ended up with his problem. He had crystals and stones,recently need surgery to remove them because he got blocked. He and my other cat were eating a mix of pro plan,urinary tract health and indoor care i believe. I never thought to look at the analysis before. But after the fact i noticed their protein was 40%! Soon as i told the vet that,shes like yup thats the problem. Other than not drinking enough and all that. So as far as i am concerned,no high protein foods (no wet foods are ever that high in protein,its the dry that has it all at least i think) for adult cats,especially males!! Anyways thats my take on it.
post #7 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Tell me your budget ( I e what can you pay for what size ) , what they currently eat and what you can get ( Ie saying evo when you only have walmart would not help you )
Well my Mom buys the food, so she tends to go for the cheapest foods which isn't what I would do.... I saved for months so the cats can see a vet once a year, I pay rent so I cant rely on my money for there food the vet was because if I didnt save up my money they would never get to the vet basically.

My Mom goes to King Kullen and buys 16 cans of 9 lives or friskies canned food i think are 61 cents each (my cats get 2 full cans a day, breakfast and for dinner) She buys the largest bag of original flavor Meow Mix dry food for 1 week, it's 18 pounds, not sure on price. Like I said budget is very low. We have a Petco by us and another pet shop which has more pricy foods like hills science diet. We feed stray cats so both our and the strays eat the Meow Mix, my Mom wont buy seperate foods for them which is what SHOULD be done. Parents, lol.

Quote:
He and my other cat were eating a mix of pro plan,urinary tract health and indoor care i believe.
I also remember from this book that Cranberry does nothing to prevent UTI in cats even though it was thought to. Something to do with PH and urine concentration, I was confused on this and didn't understand it well.
post #8 of 19
Quote:
My Mom goes to King Kullen and buys 16 cans of 9 lives or friskies canned food i think are 61 cents each
I feed EVO 95% meat cans (beef or chicken), which cost me $1.69/13.2oz can. That works out to being equivalent 70cents for a 5.5oz can. I order them from petfooddirect.com to get this price, and I always wait until they send me a coupon code via email, and the discount pretty much eliminates the cost to ship. It's the cheapest high protein grain free canned I can find.

Quote:
I also remember from this book that Cranberry does nothing to prevent UTI in cats even though it was thought to. Something to do with PH and urine concentration, I was confused on this and didn't understand it well.
This is because the higher concentration of urine the higher concentration of the minerals that form into urinary crystals and result in a blockage. The more dilute (from increased water intake) the urine, the more unfavorable the conditions are for forming crystals. I'm assuming that's what that was referring to.
post #9 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I feed EVO 95% meat cans (beef or chicken), which cost me $1.69/13.2oz can. That works out to being equivalent 70cents for a 5.5oz can. I order them from petfooddirect.com to get this price, and I always wait until they send me a coupon code via email, and the discount pretty much eliminates the cost to ship. It's the cheapest high protein grain free canned I can find.
I'll have to look into that, thanks. I'm open to advice from other's here too.
post #10 of 19
Not to disrupt the thread but lovemypets81--I suggest/recommend you take your information to another thread as you may find that most people would highly disagree with what your vet has said--including the writer of the book the OP has talked about.

Leslie
post #11 of 19
Yeah okay thanks Leslie. I just researched this online as a matter of fact. Says that prolonged use of high protein diet can lead to kidney/liver/urinary problems. Studies have shown this. So you can tell me to go somewhere else with my opinions but i just saw online that it is a fact. From many many different sites. Look it up yourself and you will see it for a fact. Sorry if you dont like what I am suggesting or my vet,but from what i can tell it is the truth. I will leave your thread now cause i dont want to start a debate or fight,but i will stand by what the vet and i concurred.
post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovemypets81 View Post
Yeah okay thanks Leslie. I just researched this online as a matter of fact. Says that prolonged use of high protein diet can lead to kidney/liver/urinary problems. Studies have shown this. So you can tell me to go somewhere else with my opinions but i just saw online that it is a fact. From many many different sites. Look it up yourself and you will see it for a fact. Sorry if you dont like what I am suggesting or my vet,but from what i can tell it is the truth. I will leave your thread now cause i dont want to start a debate or fight,but i will stand by what the vet and i concurred.
HIGH DRY matter protein is what has been proven to a degree.. IE it come down to QUALITY not Quantity of protein... HIGH protein can IN SOME cases be linked to those issues but ... REAL LIFE matters are often different ... I had a cat in renal failure who when put on a RAW VERY high protein diet with canned had her disease actually do some correction toward normal... Read some of the research from the last 15 yrs and read the ACTUAL studies not a theory or hypothesis ... Vets in general have limited education on this matter I am lucky enough to have a vet with a master sin companion animal nutrition who gave me many new studies to look at and then I researched
post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
HIGH DRY matter protein is what has been proven to a degree.. IE it come down to QUALITY not Quantity of protein... HIGH protein can IN SOME cases be linked to those issues but ... REAL LIFE matters are often different ... I had a cat in renal failure who when put on a RAW VERY high protein diet with canned had her disease actually do some correction toward normal... Read some of the research from the last 15 yrs and read the ACTUAL studies not a theory or hypothesis ... Vets in general have limited education on this matter I am lucky enough to have a vet with a master sin companion animal nutrition who gave me many new studies to look at and then I researched

oh okay i missed the part about the canned food with high protein,i thought yall meant the dry food. I gotcha now. Sorry. I didnt know there was canned food with high protein,ive only ever seen low protein wet foods. Hmm...that is interesting now that you mention it...petsmart did have one called oh i forget what but something to do with wild lol...that prolly had high protein, i know the dry did for sure. Once again sorry for misreading and causing an uproar lol. please forgive me and ill leave yall to your discussion on this.
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovemypets81 View Post
oh okay i missed the part about the canned food with high protein,i thought yall meant the dry food. I gotcha now. Sorry. I didnt know there was canned food with high protein,ive only ever seen low protein wet foods. Hmm...that is interesting now that you mention it...petsmart did have one called oh i forget what but something to do with wild lol...that prolly had high protein, i know the dry did for sure. Once again sorry for misreading and causing an uproar lol. please forgive me and ill leave yall to your discussion on this.
MY caps are stress NOT yelling ...

if a wet food say 9% protein it has a DRY matter of 36-45%... the actual food vs what the % are with 75-85% water or broth
post #15 of 19
ooooh. i see. ty.
post #16 of 19
yeah...

thanks sharky!
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by keith p View Post
I also remember from this book that Cranberry does nothing to prevent UTI in cats even though it was thought to. Something to do with PH and urine concentration, I was confused on this and didn't understand it well.
Unfortunately the term UTI gets used a lot to describe two situations. UTI, which stands for Urinary Tract Infection, is a bacterial problem. Usually brought on by a compromised immune system which can be helped out by crystals in the bladder. The cranberry is claimed to prevent the bacteria from attaching to the walls. It possibly can help prevent actual UTI's but their is an acidity issue with prolonged use.

UTI mainly gets used to describe Urinary Tract Crystals. whiteforest gave good info on that problem.

Sorry no real info provided. I guess more of a rant and a little off topic. I'm starting to see signs, not just on this board, of confusion on what UTI is and how do we try to deal with it.

As for the topic, my vote is for wet.
post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris10 View Post
Unfortunately the term UTI gets used a lot to describe two situations. UTI, which stands for Urinary Tract Infection, is a bacterial problem. Usually brought on by a compromised immune system which can be helped out by crystals in the bladder. The cranberry is claimed to prevent the bacteria from attaching to the walls. It possibly can help prevent actual UTI's but their is an acidity issue with prolonged use.

UTI mainly gets used to describe Urinary Tract Crystals. whiteforest gave good info on that problem.

Sorry no real info provided. I guess more of a rant and a little off topic. I'm starting to see signs, not just on this board, of confusion on what UTI is and how do we try to deal with it.

As for the topic, my vote is for wet.
HYJACK again

Uti = urinary tract infection

Utis can be found with crystals

FUS = feline urinary syndrome or FLUTD = feline lower urinary tract disease covers the gamut of urinary issues
http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/urinary.html


http://vetmedicine.about.com/cs/catd...caturinary.htm

MANY MANY cats get UTI s with NO crystal s EVER
post #19 of 19
My cats got a taste of the wild yesterday! They got to share fresh cooked pheasant with us. They loved that!!!

I know that big cats don't cook. But I would have been leary of feeding them raw pheasant.

Years ago I tried feeding my cats fresh venison and they didn't like it.
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