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The Pope reinstates 4 excommunicated bishops-one a holocaust denier

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/wo...pe/25pope.html

So much for Vatican II I guess. That's unfortunate.

If denying the holocaust isn't enough, Bishop Richard Williamson claims that 9/11 was "an inside job".

http://romancatholicblog.typepad.com...y-of-st-p.html
post #2 of 27
It certainly makes one wonder about the influence of the Pope's early life experiences on his viewpoints.

Or, perhaps he is just desperate to increase membership from any available source he can find.
post #3 of 27
You have to understand something, being excommunacated has to do with your eternal soul. Maybe the Pope thinks that just because you are a confused senile idiot you should still have a shot at eternal salvation. I mean, we aren't talking some club here.
post #4 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn View Post
You have to understand something, being excommunacated has to do with your eternal soul. Maybe the Pope thinks that just because you are a confused senile idiot you should still have a shot at eternal salvation. I mean, we aren't talking some club here.
it doesn't mean the Pope or the Church agrees with your beliefs, only that you have been restored to "good standing" so to speak.
post #5 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn View Post
You have to understand something, being excommunacated has to do with your eternal soul. Maybe the Pope thinks that just because you are a confused senile idiot you should still have a shot at eternal salvation. I mean, we aren't talking some club here.
I see your point about that. I guess reversing the excommunication is one thing, but they are, at this point, being referred to as "bishops", even though they were made bishops in an unsanctioned consecration. That's the reason they were excommunicated.

IMO, someone who holds those views should not be a church leader in any capacity.
post #6 of 27
So what happens if they will not accept reintroduction in lesser positions? Or, if they refuse to change their doctrine to fall in line with the church's? Do they get re-excommunicated? Or do they just decide that a few radical bishops are something they can live with?
post #7 of 27
It looks now as if the decision is causing the Pope trouble within his own ranks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/26/wo...html?ref=world
post #8 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by clixpix View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/wo...pe/25pope.html

So much for Vatican II I guess. That's unfortunate.

If denying the holocaust isn't enough, Bishop Richard Williamson claims that 9/11 was "an inside job".

http://romancatholicblog.typepad.com...y-of-st-p.html
He is probably one of those that think the only thing jews are good for is keep israel safe for them till they get there.
post #9 of 27
The Roman Catholic church has no say so over anyone's eternal soul.

Never has and never will.
post #10 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
The Roman Catholic church has no say so over anyone's eternal soul.

Never has and never will.
It doesn't matter if you or I believe it, they do, so it's important to them. You have to look at it from their perspective to gain the understanding of the importance to them.
post #11 of 27
It sounds like the rabbis are not one bit happy about it

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090128/...u_vatican_jews
post #12 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleeko View Post
It sounds like the rabbis are not one bit happy about it

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090128/...u_vatican_jews
This is a pretty good example of why keeping church and state separate is a good idea

The Pope and the Rabbinate have "severed ties". Yet, Israel and the Vatican have normal diplomatic relations.
post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn View Post
You have to understand something, being excommunacated has to do with your eternal soul. Maybe the Pope thinks that just because you are a confused senile idiot you should still have a shot at eternal salvation. I mean, we aren't talking some club here.
I'm certainly glad I don't have to worry about the Pope (or anyone else other than God) validating my shot at eteranal salvation.
post #14 of 27
The Pope is apparently starting to realize he made a mistake:
Vatican Demands Holocaust Denier Publicly Recant
Quote:
Responding to global outrage, especially in Pope Benedict XVI’s native Germany, the Vatican for the first time on Wednesday called on a recently rehabilitated bishop to take back his statements denying the Holocaust.
post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty8723 View Post
I'm certainly glad I don't have to worry about the Pope (or anyone else other than God) validating my shot at eteranal salvation.
Ditto, that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
The Pope is apparently starting to realize he made a mistake:
Vatican Demands Holocaust Denier Publicly Recant
Wow, so the Pope isn't infallible? What do you know.
post #16 of 27
This thread serves as a reminder of why I am a non-practicing Catholic.
post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Ditto, that.



Wow, so the Pope isn't infallible? What do you know.
Actually, another poster here told me once that Papal Infallibity only applies to the Pope's interpretation of Church doctrine, and only if it's invoked. I'm at work and have rather limited research ability, I'll try looking it up when I get home.
post #18 of 27
The Pope has to claim infalliability and in the history of the church has done so very, very rarely and only on points of theology that are causing major splits in the church. It is a very misunderstood concept.

And the point about excommunication being such a big deal, it is much more serious to a Catholic then it would to be thrown out of a Baptist church for a Baptist. The Baptist can go down the street to another Baptist church. The Catholic can't. They have, in effect, been thrown out of EVERY Catholic church, everywhere. They can't take the Eucharist. ANYWHERE. To a Catholic that is major. You can't go to confession. You are denied every sacrament. Seems a bit extreme to be denied all that just because you are a misguided old fool who believes stupid conspiracy theories.
post #19 of 27
Seeing as how there is still concentration camp survivors still alive, I think the old fool needs to step up and admit he is wrong. By saying the holocaust never happened he is calling every survivor a liar. I think that is disgusting and I am glad there has been an uproar over this.
post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Seeing as how there is still concentration camp survivors still alive, I think the old fool needs to step up and admit he is wrong. By saying the holocaust never happened he is calling every survivor a liar. I think that is disgusting and I am glad there has been an uproar over this.
There are fools all around us that can't even comprehend the possibility that they're wrong, even when facts contrary to their's are bounced off their head.
post #21 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn View Post
Seems a bit extreme to be denied all that just because you are a misguided old fool who believes stupid conspiracy theories.
Again, he was not excommunicated for that...he was excommunicated for participating in an unsanctioned consecration when he became a "bishop", not for his views on the holocaust.
post #22 of 27
Williamson has thanked the Pope for being allowed to rejoin the Church, and has apologized for the furor caused by his remarks. However, he hasn't recanted those remarks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7862204.stm
post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by clixpix View Post
Again, he was not excommunicated for that...he was excommunicated for participating in an unsanctioned consecration when he became a "bishop", not for his views on the holocaust.
And that would be a good reason to be excommunicated.
post #24 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy Mjp View Post
Williamson has thanked the Pope for being allowed to rejoin the Church, and has apologized for the furor caused by his remarks. However, he hasn't recanted those remarks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7862204.stm
I think we can safely say, at least I can, that this Pope is not the Pope is predecessor was.
post #25 of 27
Update

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...606323,00.html

The Bishop will re-evaluate his stance that the Holocaust did not happen.
post #26 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Update

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...606323,00.html

The Bishop will re-evaluate his stance that the Holocaust did not happen.
It seems like what he says is a studied conclusion and not necessarily a bias on his part. If he honestly intends to study and reconsider if necessary, then good for him
post #27 of 27
Thread Starter 
Well, now it seems that he may be arrested. It is illegal in Germany and several other European countries to deny the holocaust. It's considered a hate crime:

Quote:
German Justice Minister Brigitte Zypries, speaking in the sidelines of EU justice ministers' talks in Brussels, said officials in her country were considering issuing an EU-wide warrant because the ultraconservative clergyman Richard Williamson denied the Holocaust during a Swedish television interview that was recorded in Germany. He lives in Britain.
Here is the rest of the article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29429153/
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