or Connect
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › Cats and Other Animals › Good News re Ear Cropping/Tail Docking
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Good News re Ear Cropping/Tail Docking

post #1 of 89
Thread Starter 
I couldn't take the newspaper with me (was reading it at the repair shop) but just read an article this past weekend regarding AKC and ear cropping/tail docking.

AKC is finally allowing dogs to be uncropped/docked in the show rings to compete. The main reason (other then a push in the US to ban it - some states are banning ear cropping now) was that dogs from Europe could not be shown in the US even if registered in AKC because their were uncropped and not docked.

Personally I'm glad - will be interesting over the next few years to see both in the rings and see which ones will be picked. Hope the uncropped ones will start winning more
post #2 of 89
I'm not in favour or against cropping/docking but my partner has a Boxer dog that wasn't cropped and she has serious difficulties with her tail. It's thin, much thinner than a cats tail and it's long like a whip. She makes it bleed every day because she bangs it against stuff and it's always covered in scabs. Her sister was docked as a puppy and suffers none of this problems [obviousely]
post #3 of 89
I'm not 100% against it - for medical reasons I see why they should be allowed.....but doing it "just for looks", IMO - it ain't fair to the animal. We have a Pit/Staffie X at the shelter, her ears were cropped, she has severe frostbite at the edges due to them being cropped they are more tender, too. Don't mess with her ears.
post #4 of 89
Thanks awesome new!

I hope that we will see fewer puppies being put through that experience.
post #5 of 89
Thread Starter 
I do kinda agree with docking tho - have seen the result of tails being damaged over and over if not docked. But I am against the ear cropping - that's only for cosmetic reasons - not for health reasons.

Someone had posted a website with pictures of uncropped tails on a lot of breeds - what they look like naturally. Was very interesting, but some just looked too weird with longer tails.
post #6 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I do kinda agree with docking tho - have seen the result of tails being damaged over and over if not docked. But I am against the ear cropping - that's only for cosmetic reasons - not for health reasons.

Someone had posted a website with pictures of uncropped tails on a lot of breeds - what they look like naturally. Was very interesting, but some just looked too weird with longer tails.
I don't see the need to crop ears either but I feel for Jaffa everytime her tail bleeds. She know's her tail is a burden too. Everytime I go to Kieran's house I leave with welts all over my legs from her tail
post #7 of 89
I am glad that breeders will now have the choice to not crop\\dock!!! I wish my own poodle puppy hadn't been docked, but because I didn't 'claim' him before the owner did it, he got it done. I prefer tails, and floopy ears...Lol!

I know some breeders may still do it, just because of 'tradition', but this new thing may free up those who don't like it, to choose not to.

As far as uncropped, docked dogs winning in the showring, it will take more than the dog simply being uncropped and docked...the ears and tail are a small thing, compared to the dog as a whole.
post #8 of 89
I'm from Bulgaria and there it's illegal to crop tails and ears from a humane standpoint...I was surprised it's not illegal in the US. I think it's illegal everywhere in the EU...
post #9 of 89
that's a start, letting them in the ring. Hopefully it will be banned all together
post #10 of 89
I'm a bit confused. Was tail cropping first introduced in certain breeds to prevent these dogs from injuring their tails? If so... well, there are other breeds of dogs with long skinny tails, for which it is not a tradition to dock them. Then again, such dogs are usually racing dogs, greyhounds and the like, who probably need their tail for balance...? OK I'm really not sure about this, does anyone know the history of docking?
post #11 of 89
I think its great! Its been banned here in New Brunswick. I once heard a vet office I was in mentioned to someone that they could make an “arrangementâ€, I never went back there….

My Rottie did not have his tail cropped. It was the cutest, most lethal tail in history LOL. It was super thick, long, curled like a piggy, and the hair was long but coarse and straight so it looked like a fan. We actually had to tail proof our house because of him. Any knick-knacks we had that were low we had to place high. We could only eat in the TV room at the low table when he was sleeping. I cant even count how many times I cooked food, placed it on the low table, went to get a drink, heard a crash, run back to see food on the wall, my rotties tail encrusted with food, and him furiously wagging his tail. We got comments all the time on his tail, some people didn’t even know Rotties had tails!

As well, my Brunos girlfriend at daycare has uncropped ears as a Doberman. She is so beautiful, as most Dobermans are. Her ears frame her face perfectly. She is gorgeous, I don’t think she would be as pretty with those ugly cropped ears.

It seems to me cropping is the same as declawing. I may be wrong since I am not educated on this topic. I would like to know the history as well.
post #12 of 89
I do like the looks of a Doberman with cropped ears and a docked tail. That is what I am used to a Doberman looking like though. If I got used to the way they look naturally I would probably get to the point that I wouldn't even notice. The ear cropping in particular seems to be something that would be very painful and takes a while to heal.
post #13 of 89
I think the issue with dogs having skinny, easily broken tails is because we've bred them to dock the tail for so long, they've become that way genetically. If we bred for strong tails, there wouldn't be this issue.

Thank goodness the AKC has finally seen the light!
post #14 of 89
This is good news. I personally dont agree with the docking or croping of any animal part. I know others have different views, I just dont think its very fair for the animal.
post #15 of 89
The AVMA is against docking/cropping, too: http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/dec08/081215c.asp
http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/mar09/090315c.asp

Hopefully the practice will just quietly fade into the background someday. I wouldn't really approve of making it illegal (too much governmental interference), but I would certainly like it if the kennel clubs made it against their policies.
post #16 of 89
I'm not necessarily for or against ear cropping and tail docking however I really think that in order for a veterinarian to offer it, they should have to take a specialty course in how to do it properly, per breed. I can't count on my fingers how many BAD ear cropping jobs I've seen, it's insane!

Also I can see a boxer having issues having a tail, only because they have such wiggly butts anyway! However once a dog gets an injury on a tail, regardless of breed they are hard to heal. But in your friends case it sounds like the dog's tail is just genetically messed up because boxer's usually have fairly thick tails if they have them, same with rottweilers, their tails are usually pretty substantial.

Overall I think it's good they allow the natural look. AKC has screwed up dogs so much, the dogs in the show ring are what I call "barbie crap" so far from their original purpose. The herding breeds especially they are breeding the instinct out of them. A show type border collie is NOTHING like a field type. A spaniel in the show ring doesn't need a docked tail, the dog isn't even being used for hunting. It isn't running through the brush, it isn't going to get caught on something. The dog's can't even perform their jobs because they don't have the instinct and if they crack a tooth or break a leg and get weird bone formation they will get disqualified. It's dumb. I think an AKC show should be based more off of the dog's ability to do its job, than conformation alone.
post #17 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyWukong View Post
I'm a bit confused. Was tail cropping first introduced in certain breeds to prevent these dogs from injuring their tails? If so... well, there are other breeds of dogs with long skinny tails, for which it is not a tradition to dock them. Then again, such dogs are usually racing dogs, greyhounds and the like, who probably need their tail for balance...?
I had 2 greyhounds and yes, they have very long skinny tails with absolutely no fat on them. What you felt was pure bone. They would cut their tails from time to time, but there was only 1 instance where I had to wrap it and hold it for a while to stop the bleeding. He hit his tail on a barbed wire fence. Normal bumps might bleed a little, but no more than what I do when I hit my hand too hard on something.

I'm glad to see that they are taking this step forward. I've always disagreed with cropping / docking. I've always viewed it as cruel as declawing. Just my opinion.
post #18 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
I'm from Bulgaria and there it's illegal to crop tails and ears from a humane standpoint...I was surprised it's not illegal in the US. I think it's illegal everywhere in the EU...
I love dogs with big floppy ears and long tails. Glad to see some folks are getting some sensibility back.

ut0pia, Unfortunately North America is behind Europe in a lot of things. Declawing is another issue that is allowed here and not in Europe. We need to catch up to humane practices.
post #19 of 89
Greyhound are prone to tail injuries, and a number of other sighthound breeds are as well. Also Labradors and some other sporting and hound breeds are prone to tail injuries but they are not docked... Same thing with Great Danes and some Mastiff breeds.

I am not sure if the dogs who are not cropped/docked will do well in the show rings though. I know in the breeds where it was in the standard that they could be shown either way, most often the cropped dogs would win over the ones with natural ears.
post #20 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekochan View Post
I am not sure if the dogs who are not cropped/docked will do well in the show rings though. I know in the breeds where it was in the standard that they could be shown either way, most often the cropped dogs would win over the ones with natural ears.
That just shows the hypocrisy of dog showing. It's supposed to be all about the conformation of the dog---how sound it is, how fit to "do its job", etc. But the truth is that I could have the most conformationally correct Dobermann in the world, and, if his ears and tail weren't cut off, he'd never win in a U.S. dog show. So I don't have any faith in dog showing to produce quality dogs.
post #21 of 89
This is a very controversial topic in the dog world, one that get's people's tempers flaring. I will never support legislation that bans cropping/docking. Owners should have a CHOICE whether they crop/dock their dogs. Docking is done when pups are very young, before the nerves in the tail have adequately formed, so pain is basically nonexistant. With ear crops, pups bounce back very quickly from the procedure. I have seen Dobe pups with their ears taped and posted, and they do not care! They run and play just like any other puppy. They may fuss with the tape initially, but you simply distract them with toys and such, and they soon learn to forget about it.

Did you know that in PA, they tried to pass legislation that banned cropping/docking, required owners to submit proof that their dogs were cropped/docked by a liscensed veterinarian, and those who could not would have seen their dogs taken away and euthanised for simply not having a tail or natural ears! (Luckily this legislation did not pass) Some people DO get dogs from rescue and they have no way of finding out who or where their dog was cropped. And some breeds (like australian shepherds and pembroke welsh corgis) will have puppies in the litter born without tails. Euthanising dogs for not having a tail? Rediculous. I will post the article here a little later.

Cropping/docking legislation is part of the agenda of Animal Rights organizations such as PetA and the HSUS to eliminate pet owner ship. People who believe in Animal Rights believe it is an animal's Right not to be owned! They believe that pets are slaves (yes, even your adorable little pampered putty tats) and that it is wrong to own them. (Although some of them do own pets, but they call them "the friend that has to live with me.")

BSL, Cropping/Docking Legislation, Mandatory Spay/Neuter Legislation and Anti-Tethering Legislation are all chipping away at pet owner's rights one stupid law at a time. Plus it costs the taxpayers a ton of money to try to enforce all this crap.

*steps off soap box*
post #22 of 89
This is the article I mentioned in my previous post talking about the legislation PA tried to pass. THANKFULLY it didn't.

Quote:
Pennsylvania Draft Legislation
Puts Clamps on Tail Docking

A proposed revision of the Pennsylvania Animal Cruelty law makes it illegal for anyone to own or possess a dog or puppy with a docked tail, unless the person can prove that the tail was docked by a licensed veterinarian or has filed an affidavit of proof with a county treasurer that the procedure was done before the law goes into effect. This draft legislation will be presented to the Dog Law Advisory Board this week, prior to being published in The Pennsylvania Bulletin and submitted to the state Legislature.

The proposed law also would apply to nonresidents of Pennsylvania who are passing through the state, or who participate in field trials, dog shows, performance events or hunting here. Several sporting breeds routinely have their tails docked, following breed standards designed to prevent severe tail injuries while hunting, including Brittanys, German shorthaired pointers, cocker spaniels, various breeds of terriers and several others. Many other breeds that customarily have their tails docked are as diverse as Australian shepherds, Yorkshire terriers and rottweilers.

Animal cruelty statutes carry criminal penalties, and in Pennsylvania are enforced by Humane Society officers, county animal control officers and police officers. The proposed legislation also grants power to state dog wardens to enforce all animal cruelty statutes.

The American Sporting Dog Alliance (ASDA) is actively working to oppose this legislation. We need your support and membership right now to show Pennsylvania lawmakers that sporting dog owners are united in opposition to this arbitrary infringement of our rights and breed traditions. Please visit our website to learn about us and join our fight to protect your rights: http://www.americansportingdogalliance.org.

This legislation will be introduced to accompany a major 80-page-long revision of Pennsylvania’s kennel laws. Both bills are supported by Gov. Ed Rendell. ASDA will be issuing commentary about the tough new kennel legislation in the near future.

ASDA maintains that this legislation quite literally would create chaos and result in stiff fines for many thousands of law-abiding dog owners every year. While licensed kennel owners may be informed at some point, few pet owners would have a way of knowing about the law until a dog warden shows up at their door with a citation. Perhaps the most vulnerable people would be pet owners and hunters who own one or two dogs, but don’t participate in events or organizations that would inform them of this law. We see the potential for millions of dollars in unfair and unjustified fines to be sucked out of the pockets of law-abiding private citizens to feed the greedy jaws of government.

If passed into law, this legislation also would have a devastating impact on field trials, performance testing and shows for many breeds. Nonresidents simply would not be able to comply with a requirement, which would require having a veterinary certificate or registering the dog with a county treasurer in Pennsylvania.

Most people who buy a dog or puppy have no way of knowing if a veterinarian has docked the tail, but simply have taken a breeder at his or her word when proof has not been required by law. They also may not be able to contact someone else’s veterinarian many months or years after the fact to obtain proof. Some people also may be trapped by this law if a veterinarian has retired, moved or died, or if the dog’s breeder cannot be located. Even after being cited, these people would have no way to come into compliance in the future, and would be given the painful choice of either facing increasingly stiff penalties in the future or euthanizing their beloved pet and companion. This legislation would turn thousands of law-abiding people into criminals, at the stroke of a pen!

In addition, some dogs lose part or all of their tails through accidents and injuries, and sometimes as newborn puppies. This can happen to a newborn puppy if its mother steps on it or accidentally hurts its tail cleaning it up after birth. Older dogs can get their tails caught in doors, or break them by accidentally cracking them against hard objects. Owners of these dogs would have no defense against being charged with animal cruelty.

The legislation also would seriously impact both Pennsylvania and out-of-state trainers and handlers, who would be virtually prohibited from bringing a dog with a docked tail into the state for a field trial or to be trained. Many Pennsylvania residents also would be effectively prohibited from buying a dog or puppy from a breeder of their choice from out of state, even if the breeder was completely in compliance with the laws of his or her own state.

Even travelers passing through Pennsylvania with their pets would be subject to a criminal citation under this legislation.

Some conscientious and experienced breeders dock the tails of puppies, after having been advised to do this and trained by their veterinarians. This practice would be prohibited by the legislation. Many veterinarians report that newly born puppies show no signs of pain or discomfort from docking procedures, and some even sleep through the procedure.

A particularly onerous aspect of this legislation is that it places the burden of proof on the person who owns a dog or is in possession of it, rather than upon the state. This flies in the face of the entire American system of jurisprudence, which is based on the presumption of innocence for anyone who is accused of violating any law. These vital protections to individual liberties are enshrined in the constitutions of the United States and most states. No crime of any kind is more serious or dangerous to American society than comprising the integrity of the Constitution and basic human rights.

The legislation also includes similar prohibitions against debarking dogs, performing caesarian sections to assist in birthing puppies, and cropping ears.

ASDA is in complete support of the prohibitions in the legislation against these procedures by anyone other than a licensed veterinarian. We feel that it is completely inappropriate for anyone except a licensed veterinarian to perform these procedures.

However, ASDA opposes placing the burden of proof on the dog owner, trainer or handler of the dog. We believe that legal liability should be limited to the person who owned the dog at the time the procedures were performed, and that the burden of proof should lie with the state.
post #23 of 89
Wow, that law was awful, I'm glad it didn't pass. I have a Rottweiler, and since he was a rescue, I have no idea how his tail was docked. I'm sure the breeders did it themselves.....that's the most common, NOBODY takes puppies to vets to be docked. BUt I'd have no way of proving anything one way or the other.

I do not think cropping or docking should be illegal. I think that's giving too much power to the government. But I don't think people should do it. I think there is NO acceptable level of pain and/or risk for a procedure that has NO benefit to the animal.
post #24 of 89
That is far from good news!!! I think it is HORRIBLE that the government could say what we can and cannot do with our pets. I have a doberman, cropped/docked and a great dane, cropped. It states in the original standard of the breed that they are supposed to be cropped/docked. That is how I want them.

Trust me when I say this, you will see a quick decline in QUALITY dogs if the true lovers of the breed are not able to crop/dock. I personally know many of the top breeders in dobermans and danes and over 80% of them said they would no longer breed. Grab yourself a copy of Dane World Magazine or the Doberman Digest and I will know 3/4 the people in there.

And the BYB would take over these breeds and rouine them. It has happened in other countries where cropping/docking is banned and it will happen here too.

I have a very strong opinon about this. I probobly shouldn't have said anything......

Should we not Circumcise babies anymore either then??? same principle...
post #25 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by EsmeDarling View Post
Trust me when I say this, you will see a quick decline in QUALITY dogs if the true lovers of the breed are not able to crop/dock. I personally know many of the top breeders in dobermans and danes and over 80% of them said they would no longer breed. Grab yourself a copy of Dane World Magazine or the Doberman Digest and I will know 3/4 the people in there.
Seems to me that if they wouldn't breed anymore just because they weren't allowed to crop/dock, then they don't really like the breed anyway. Looks aren't everything. I think they just say that because they don't want things to change.
post #26 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willowy View Post
Seems to me that if they wouldn't breed anymore just because they weren't allowed to crop/dock, then they don't really like the breed anyway. Looks aren't everything. I think they just say that because they don't want things to change.
I BREED Persians and if they changed something - I wouldn't just give it all up but I'd probably give a Devon Rex breeding programme a go!

Circumsision and ear cropping are TOTALLY different, IMO.
post #27 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by WellingtonCats View Post

Circumsision and ear cropping are TOTALLY different, IMO.
Cropping/Docking could be compared to declawing.... definately not circumision.

Personally, I am glad these laws are coming up.... I can understand on the breeds where there is a health risk involved with letting the tail grow to length, IF it is docked by a Vet..... but docking/cropping for cosmetic reasons only.... no, I don't agree with.

Sidenote: Shouldn't this post be in IMO, since that's what it is turning out to be?
post #28 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by EsmeDarling View Post
That is far from good news!!! I think it is HORRIBLE that the government could say what we can and cannot do with our pets. I have a doberman, cropped/docked and a great dane, cropped. It states in the original standard of the breed that they are supposed to be cropped/docked. That is how I want them.
You think that AKC allowing dogs who are not cropped/docked in conformation shows is bad news? Why?

AKC is not the government, they are a purebred dog organization.
post #29 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekochan View Post
AKC is not the government, they are a purebred dog organization.
Exactly! I would not support banning the practice on a governmental level. That's just TOO scary. But I would totally support the kennel clubs taking a stand on the subject and removing docking/cropping from breed standards. That's their job----to define breed standards and acceptable dog showing practices.
post #30 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I couldn't take the newspaper with me (was reading it at the repair shop) but just read an article this past weekend regarding AKC and ear cropping/tail docking.

AKC is finally allowing dogs to be uncropped/docked in the show rings to compete. The main reason (other then a push in the US to ban it - some states are banning ear cropping now) was that dogs from Europe could not be shown in the US even if registered in AKC because their were uncropped and not docked.

Personally I'm glad - will be interesting over the next few years to see both in the rings and see which ones will be picked. Hope the uncropped ones will start winning more
I just came across this thread am I am glad that the AKC has agreed to let these dogs be shown. I am not a dog owner, but have never understood the ear cropping & tail docking. I know others don't want to be told what to do, but at least allowing both types to be shown is fair.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Cats and Other Animals
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › Cats and Other Animals › Good News re Ear Cropping/Tail Docking