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Another $500 a person handout?

post #1 of 114
12/30/08 at 6:21pm
Thread Starter 
The following is penned by the owner of www.americablog.com.
I just had to post it because I just really felt it was spot on!




"Another $500 a person handout?
John Aravosis (DC) · 12/30/2008 09:04:00 AM ET · Link



I thought we tried this last year, and it didn't work.
The incoming administration is considering tax cuts of $1,000 for couples and $500 for individuals that will be delivered by reducing the tax withheld from paychecks. That plan has been estimated to cost about $140 billion over 2009-2010.

The lump-sum rebates issued earlier this year were used by many people to pay down debt, rather than spending the money and boosting the economy as the administration had hoped.

"People need money in their pockets to spend," Axelrod said. "That'll get our economy going again."
The first handout didn't do much because it was too much money in one fell swoop, leading people to use it to pay off debts, rather than buying goods and services, which is what we want them to do in order to help the economy (reportedly, only a third of the earlier $300/person handout was actually spent). This time, the money will be spread out throughout the year in the form of a reduction in your withholding taxes (actually this would be a permanent tax cut). So I did the math. Say you get a paycheck every two weeks, so over a twelve month period that makes 26 paychecks. If you spread the $500 per person tax cut over 26 paychecks, that puts $19 more in your pocket per paycheck.
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post #2 of 114
12/30/08 at 7:14pm
What is wrong with all of us getting some help? This stupid Congress has been bailing out everyone in sight that doesn't deserve it, let's give a few bucks to us taxpayers that are having to bankroll these morons.
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post #3 of 114
12/30/08 at 8:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
What is wrong with all of us getting some help? This stupid Congress has been bailing out everyone in sight that doesn't deserve it, let's give a few bucks to us taxpayers that are having to bankroll these morons.
I agree. I like money and I want more of it! lol
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post #4 of 114
12/31/08 at 6:48am
If it actually comes across as a payroll tax decrease, it will matter in the long run. $19 doesn't sound like much, but it does add up.

None of it matters anyway. People who are so far in debt will pay bills with it, people who don't care will blow it on useless items, and the economy won't improve as a result of any of it.

IMO the only way to affect economic change like they want is to relive some of the barriers that are costing us jobs. People can't work, they can't spend. Get some real jobs back (not fake "infrastructure" crap that we are merely recycling money with) and eventually people will return to spending.
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post #5 of 114
12/31/08 at 6:59am
What is 'fake' infrastructure? IMO, we desperately need new or rehabilitated roads, bridges, electrical systems, water systems, rail systems, many public buildings, more libraries - basically, you name it, we could use it. And, the new jobs at all levels, plus better educated and trained people to design and construct these jobs, couldn't really hurt this country, could it? I agree we don't need bridges to nowhere, e.g., as Alaska tried to do, but a return to the principles of the old CCC and other programs first implemented by Roosevelt wouldn't be bad.

If by barriers we mean tossing out restrictions on pollution, etc., I do not agree - I think the future of this country, and the world, is in designing and implementing ecologically sound principles, not destroying the globe for a short term gain (as China is learning now - too bad they didn't learn from America's 1800s instead). Streamlining the ability to move on major projects, wisely done, would be a good thing, I believe.
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post #6 of 114
12/31/08 at 7:25am
Paying for infrastructure projects with tax dollars is just "redistributing the wealth." The CC camps and the other projects prolonged the Depression by most estimates.

Does any really believe that the people that have lost jobs in the past 10 years are going to get out and build bridges and roads? Those jobs exist already and they've not jumped at the chance to take them. The ones that can do better for themselves already have, so what would it benefit them? They've moved on: gone back to school and gotten a degree and found another career field. People that haven't will continue to struggle. No amount of intervention by the government will change that. Look how poorly the work or lose your welfare program has been. Still millions of people on the system.

There will always be a segment of society that is unemployed. It is sometimes by decision on the part of the individual.
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post #7 of 114
12/31/08 at 10:41am
We'll have to agree to disagree regarding the importance of the nation's infrastructure - but what real jobs do you feel would be of benefit to the nation, and how would you create them?
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post #8 of 114
12/31/08 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darlili View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree regarding the importance of the nation's infrastructure - but what real jobs do you feel would be of benefit to the nation, and how would you create them?
I don't disagree that the infrastructure needs rebuilding. I just don't think that the people who have lost jobs already will be the ones taking jobs rebuilding. Look at post-Katrina LA. Who's rebuilding it? Among others, low wage illegal immigrants.

The only way I see to create jobs is to relieve tax burdens on business which create them. Private industry, not government. Look how many jobs have been created in the past by individuals with big ideas. Now they either can't afford to start a business here or they've been taxed enough they've taken their work outside our borders.
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post #9 of 114
12/31/08 at 5:23pm
IMO if you are wise with your money now, then you will be wise with any "refund" given to you by the government.

If you waste your money and blow it on lottery, gambling, etc., then you will do the same thing to the refund handed to you.

Nothing will really change.. Good thought, but won't work the way you think.
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post #10 of 114
12/31/08 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neetanddave View Post
I don't disagree that the infrastructure needs rebuilding. I just don't think that the people who have lost jobs already will be the ones taking jobs rebuilding. Look at post-Katrina LA. Who's rebuilding it? Among others, low wage illegal immigrants.

The only way I see to create jobs is to relieve tax burdens on business which create them. Private industry, not government. Look how many jobs have been created in the past by individuals with big ideas. Now they either can't afford to start a business here or they've been taxed enough they've taken their work outside our borders.
I agree Neet.
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post #11 of 114
1/2/09 at 2:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neetanddave View Post
I don't disagree that the infrastructure needs rebuilding. I just don't think that the people who have lost jobs already will be the ones taking jobs rebuilding.

My very own brother would GLADLY take a job rebuilding (but in a supervisory/management position). You see, he's just lost job #4 in the past, oh, 6 or 7 years! His first company went bankrupt and companies 2, 3 & 4 all downsized, and with him being the newest hiree he was one of the first ones out the door (goodbye, lotsa luck buddy, & have a nice life and........oh yeah, don't let the door hit you in the buttocks)

Look at post-Katrina LA. Who's rebuilding it? Among others, low wage illegal immigrants.

And who is allowing this to happen in the first place? Where's the 'oversite' here, anyway???

The only way I see to create jobs is to relieve tax burdens on business which create them. Private industry, not government. Look how many jobs have been created in the past by individuals with big ideas.

Who's been the political party that's been in charge these past 8 years (executive & the majority in both houses?) So, please explain.....why didn't THEY do something, hugh?

On second thought, did not the government hand out all kinds of tax breaks to business during the current administration?

Now they either can't afford to start a business here or they've been taxed enough they've taken their work outside our borders.
Don't kid yourself. The days of wine and roses are soooo over for the average American worker. ALL businesses (on the whole) WILL give whatever work they can to 3rd worlders 'cause it's the only way they can compete with all the other businesses in order to keep their prices on a parity with their competitors. It's a vicious circle and there's no way out of it now.

Besides, it makes the businesses bottom line look sooooo good to the major stockholders & other investors and HEY, it enables all those CEO's to further inflate those golden parachutes of theirs and allows all of us 'little people' to go to Wallmart to buy all that cheap China crap they sell.
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post #12 of 114
1/3/09 at 7:51am
P1ookie-boy, sounds like you'll be getting your wish when the "hope and change" kicks in in a few weeks. Guess we'll see how things work out when they come up with their final plans.

I seem to remember you started this thread complaining about the couple hundred dollar stimulus. That puts dollars back in the hands of consumers, which isn't a bad thing ever.
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post #13 of 114
1/3/09 at 12:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neetanddave View Post
P1ookie-boy, sounds like you'll be getting your wish when the "hope and change" kicks in in a few weeks. Guess we'll see how things work out when they come up with their final plans.

Puleeeze don't start turning things around to point fingers at the Dems for all of the Repubs mistakes & shortcomings these past 8 looong years. Once again, what did the Repubs do to create jobs and stimulate the economy and prevent the financial meltdown we're going thru now?

I seem to remember you started this thread complaining about the couple hundred dollar stimulous. That puts dollars back in the hands of consumers, which isn't a bad thing ever.

Please re-read the article. But it IS bad when you add 150 billion to the deficit by repeating a stimulous plan that Did Not work the first time. I'm definately leaning towards putting the money in the infrastructure rebuilding plan.
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post #14 of 114
1/3/09 at 1:32pm
I thought this was about the upcoming bailout? You said it was a bad idea, I think it's okay.

And for the record, I wasn't pointing at anyone. I never mentioned Dems or Republicans. Many people share responsibility for the current situation, including millions of American taxpayers.
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post #15 of 114
1/5/09 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by darlili View Post
I agree we don't need bridges to nowhere, e.g., as Alaska tried to do, but a return to the principles of the old CCC and other programs first implemented by Roosevelt wouldn't be bad.
I'm sorry, but the "bridge to nowhere" was actually a bridge from Ketchikan to its airport. Some people actually viewed this as being nice to have an alternative to an old ferry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravina_Island_Bridge
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post #16 of 114
1/6/09 at 4:21pm
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally Posted by neetanddave
P1ookie-boy, sounds like you'll be getting your wish when the "hope and change" kicks in in a few weeks. Guess we'll see how things work out when they come up with their final plans.[quote]

"hope and change" kicking in in a few weeks" is a direct reference to Barrack Obama, Democrat.

Seeing how things will work out "when they come up with their final plans" is a direct reference to the Dems coming into power on January 20th.

No matter how you couched it in your post, your unnamed reference was unmistakable.
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post #17 of 114
1/6/09 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PookieBoy View Post

No matter how you couched it in your post, your unnamed reference was unmistakable.
You're getting a little ahead of yourself there. My earlier comments alluded to nothing of the sort. I think the part of the stimulus involving actual tax cuts is a good thing, that's certainly not bashing anyone. You mentioned the past 8 years and blamed them for the "shortcomings."

Doesn't look like the stimulus is getting passed anytime soon, even the Democrats are starting to question some of the timetables for it.
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post #18 of 114
1/6/09 at 9:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PookieBoy View Post


Gravina Island Bridge
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Ok, I'm confused here. You posted a link that explains exactly what Weldrwomn said the "bridge to nowhere" was...so why the shaking head? It WAS a bridge to make it easier for people to get to the airport. What do you disagree with?
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post #19 of 114
1/7/09 at 2:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
Ok, I'm confused here. You posted a link that explains exactly what Weldrwomn said the "bridge to nowhere" was...so why the shaking head? It WAS a bridge to make it easier for people to get to the airport. What do you disagree with?
$238,000,000 for 50 people is what I disagree with [sheeesh] and SO DID CONGRESS [thank, cod ]. That's 238M of OUR tax money.

AND, from what I read about those people who live on the island........those 50 people were perfectly content with using their ferry!

The whole project was PURE PORK, don'tjaknow?
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post #20 of 114
1/7/09 at 2:21pm



Otherwise, too many posts are
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post #21 of 114
1/7/09 at 2:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neetanddave View Post
You're getting a little ahead of yourself there. My earlier comments alluded to nothing of the sort. I think the part of the stimulus involving actual tax cuts is a good thing, that's certainly not bashing anyone. You mentioned the past 8 years and blamed them for the "shortcomings"

OK, so we both were interjecting our own personal diatribes at different times.

Doesn't look like the stimulus is getting passed anytime soon, even the Democrats are starting to question some of the timetables for it.

One can only hope that they don't go throwing good money after bad in some kind of blind faith that something or other will stick! I would much rather they seriously study & deeply consider the different potential solutions that could be the most effective at acheiving their goals.

I can't help but remember how Lyndon B. Johnson spent untold billions of dollars on his 'War on Poverty' program with little, if any, effect on actually lowering poverty in this nation. It was nothing but a money pit to the cheaters who would graft as much as they could.......and they most certainly DID! I don't believe there was much oversite in those days.
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post #22 of 114
1/7/09 at 5:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PookieBoy View Post
$238,000,000 for 50 people is what I disagree with [sheeesh] and SO DID CONGRESS [thank, cod ]. That's 238M of OUR tax money.

AND, from what I read about those people who live on the island........those 50 people were perfectly content with using their ferry!

The whole project was PURE PORK, don'tjaknow?
In SE Alaska, tourism is a huge industry. Ketchikan is a Major stop for tourists so even if there are only 50 full time residents, thousands of tourists visit there everyday, some of who need to use the airport. The other part of why the airport is so important is because, other than boat, it is the only way for people to access Ketchikan.
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post #23 of 114
1/7/09 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WELDRWOMN View Post
In SE Alaska, tourism is a huge industry. Ketchikan is a Major stop for tourists so even if there are only 50 full time residents, thousands of tourists visit there everyday, some of who need to use the airport. The other part of why the airport is so important is because, other than boat, it is the only way for people to access Ketchikan.


Congress is who approved the money, pookieboy. Alaska government decided to spend the money on other projects.
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post #24 of 114
1/8/09 at 11:38am
Thread Starter 
OK, I just spent an hour of my life searching for something positive that had been printed about the Birdge to Nowhere.

Guess what? No can find! Does anyone have a link?

What I did find was that Senator McCain was against it.
Governor Palin was against it also [after she was for it].
The proposed bridge was almost as long as the Golden Gate & taller than the Brooklyn bridge.
It was stated on one source that most newspapers in Alaska were against it.

[Edit to add]
If I were a tourist, I would actually find a ferry ride to be completely......charming!
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post #25 of 114
1/8/09 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PookieBoy View Post
$238,000,000 for 50 people is what I disagree with [sheeesh] and SO DID CONGRESS [thank, cod ]. That's 238M of OUR tax money.

AND, from what I read about those people who live on the island........those 50 people were perfectly content with using their ferry!

The whole project was PURE PORK, don'tjaknow?
I'm confused, I thought the American people love their pork. They voted a Pork King for POTUS and shunned the War Hero that never has taken any pork/earmarks. If people don't like Pork they voted for the wrong guy if they voted for Barack. All that pork he got for Asbestos removal for the apt complex and the asbestos is still there, The man is Pork King
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post #26 of 114
1/8/09 at 12:45pm
Is there anything wrong in the US that isn't Obama's fault? It doesn't seem to matter what the subject of the thread is, somehow it comes down to being Obama's fault. For someone who hasn't even been sworn in yet, I gotta say, he sure has one heck of a lot of power and apparently has had for any number of years now.
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post #27 of 114
1/8/09 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
Is there anything wrong in the US that isn't Obama's fault? It doesn't seem to matter what the subject of the thread is, somehow it comes down to being Obama's fault. For someone who hasn't even been sworn in yet, I gotta say, he sure has one heck of a lot of power and apparently has had for any number of years now.
His past history has shown us that he has voted for many many pork projects. Hard to say he's changing his tune after that FDR-inspired speech today.
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post #28 of 114
1/8/09 at 9:14pm
Thread Starter 
A most thought provoking article by the venerable Thomas Friedman of the NYTimes, entitled "A time to Reboot America":
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/24/op...dman.html?_r=1
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post #29 of 114
1/9/09 at 4:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
IMO if you are wise with your money now, then you will be wise with any "refund" given to you by the government.

If you waste your money and blow it on lottery, gambling, etc., then you will do the same thing to the refund handed to you.

Nothing will really change.. Good thought, but won't work the way you think.
I agree, completely.
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post #30 of 114
1/9/09 at 7:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PookieBoy View Post
OK, I just spent an hour of my life searching for something positive that had been printed about the Birdge to Nowhere.

Guess what? No can find! Does anyone have a link?

What I did find was that Senator McCain was against it.
Governor Palin was against it also [after she was for it].
The proposed bridge was almost as long as the Golden Gate & taller than the Brooklyn bridge.
It was stated on one source that most newspapers in Alaska were against it.

[Edit to add]
If I were a tourist, I would actually find a ferry ride to be completely......charming!

These were just on the First page of search results.

http://ketchikanbridge.com/

http://www.sitnews.us/1006Viewpoints...murkowski.html
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