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Eye color on Ragdoll

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I wish I could get a good pic to explain, but I've had no luck.

Kizzy's eyes are weird.

There's the black pupil, a ring of blue around it, then a smaller ring of yellowish greenish around that.

Is that normal in a ragdoll?

thx.
post #2 of 25
No - Ragdolls are pointed cats and should have all blue eyes. Its possible there could be a non-pointed cat in the background.
post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
No - Ragdolls are pointed cats and should have all blue eyes. Its possible there could be a non-pointed cat in the background.
That is what I thought....it is very weird. Sometimes the second colour shows, sometimes it doesn't and his eyes are full blue. I really wish I could get a good pic...Pics explain so much better than words.

This one shows his eyes, but not what I'm talking about



again, showing his eyes, but the part I mentioned looks white with the flash



I would not doubt that he is not "purebred"... that does not matter to me. I just think his eyes are quite unique. I'll keep trying for a pic.
post #4 of 25
Whatever his official background, yes, he is a gorgeous boy!!!
post #5 of 25
Like this?



It'll only show up for me in certain lights. Hennessy is a raggie mix, but I doubt that has much to do with it.
post #6 of 25
There are some Ragdoll breeders who breed what some will call "Mink", this variation is not accepted in the Ragdoll standard. From the eye color you described, your kitten may have a Ragamuffin outcross in the background that caused him to be a Mink Ragdoll. The eye color is usually an blue/green color or "aqua". What cat fancy organization is he registered in?
Your boy is either a Seal Point Bicolor or a Seal Mink Bicolor. The photos are difficult to tell exactly what he is. Your registration slip should mention if he or his parents are Mink. Do you know if he was born with his color, or if he was born white and developed darker point color as he has grown older?
Minks can still be registered in TICA, they are just not allowed to be shown in Championship class.
I believe the Ragdoll should remain a Pointed, Blue-eyed only breed, but there are becoming more Ragdoll breeders that are adding the non-pointed lines into their program.
Kismet is adorable, and congratulations on being loved and owned by a Ragdoll.

Forensic....Hennessy is a beautiful boy, thank you for sharing his photo.
Purrs,
Stormi
post #7 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilytimeRags View Post
There are some Ragdoll breeders who breed what some will call "Mink", this variation is not accepted in the Ragdoll standard. From the eye color you described, your kitten may have a Ragamuffin outcross in the background that caused him to be a Mink Ragdoll. The eye color is usually an blue/green color or "aqua". What cat fancy organization is he registered in?
Your boy is either a Seal Point Bicolor or a Seal Mink Bicolor. The photos are difficult to tell exactly what he is. Your registration slip should mention if he or his parents are Mink. Do you know if he was born with his color, or if he was born white and developed darker point color as he has grown older?
Minks can still be registered in TICA, they are just not allowed to be shown in Championship class.
I believe the Ragdoll should remain a Pointed, Blue-eyed only breed, but there are becoming more Ragdoll breeders that are adding the non-pointed lines into their program.
Kismet is adorable, and congratulations on being loved and owned by a Ragdoll.

Forensic....Hennessy is a beautiful boy, thank you for sharing his photo.
Purrs,
Stormi
Stormi, He is not registered...... so I know "officially" I cannot call him a ragdoll. It is highly possible that he is not a purebred. (not an issue for me at all, as I didn't buy him as a purebred....lady I adopted him from said both parents were Ragdolls. ) I have better pics of his color, as well as pics of his parents if that would help you.

My curiousity in his background is simply because I want to know if he's going to be the typical male Ragdoll size...I know that is impossible to predict, but I figure I can get a good idea.

He has the mannerisms, and acts like what I have read of the ragdoll breed.

I completely understand that he is not a good example of a ragdoll (from what I've read on the standard) but I love him anyways. Do you think he fits the Mink variation?

His parents: (the owner says both of their eyes are blue)





a pic that shows close to his true color:




Kizzy's eyes are pretty close to the pic of Hennessy (gorgeous kitty btw). The color is soooo hard to capture.

Thank you both for the input

Sorry, didn't see the question about his colour. His previous owner said he was born light, and has darkened as he got older. (he's 5mos)
post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 
I googled Mink ragdolls, and found a picture of their eye colour. http://www.ragdoll.com/aqua%20eyes.jpg
That is not what Kizzy's eyes look like, however, that is the color that surrounds the blue in his eyes. Ignoring the pupil, Kizzy's eyes are approx. 80% blue, 20% the color in the above pic.
I will ask the previous owner if Kizzy what born white, or light.
post #9 of 25
So to figure out his size...how old is he and how much does he weigh? Smudge wasn't a real big size as a kitten, but he's just never stopped growing yet, LOL!
post #10 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kluchetta View Post
So to figure out his size...how old is he and how much does he weigh? Smudge wasn't a real big size as a kitten, but he's just never stopped growing yet, LOL!
He was 4.2lbs when weighed at the vet at 4.5mos old.
He was slightly underweight.
post #11 of 25
Sounds like an average size, He may not get all that big. It takes Raggys about 3-4 yrs to reach full size (like Maine Coons). But he may only reach 14-15, not the 18-20 for a male.


Family Time - I do agree 100% with you - Ragdolls IMO should only be pointed/pointed-bicolor/mitted cats. Not solids. If you want solid or other colors, then go to the Rag muffins (IMO they should not allow the pointed pattern in that breed).

Although Ocicats come in the classic, ticked and ghost spotted (pointed) patterns cause of their ancestors, ONLY the spotted pattern will be in the show rings. The breeders don't want the other patterns to be shown and its not as common to get them unless you are outcrossing to the abys (till 2015).

But in Australia, some of the Ocicat breeders are working with the classic pattern to get them recognized as a separate breed - not part of the Ocicat breed.
post #12 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forensic View Post
Like this?



It'll only show up for me in certain lights. Hennessy is a raggie mix, but I doubt that has much to do with it.
Oh!!!!! Hennessey is growing into a gorgeous little man! His eyes are mesmerizing!
post #13 of 25
With the information you gave, I would say he is a blue eyed pointed boy. A beautiful boy, and has grown so much since his last photos.
There is no perfect weight, but I have found that our Ragdolls are usually about a pound heavier than the month of age. 11 months would be about 11-12 pounds. I see the most growth in the first 2 years, but you will see a significant difference in 2 years to 4 years. Ragdolls are very slow to mature. Our oldest male was 18-20 pounds, at 4 years old. He was only 11 pounds at a year old. It is exciting to watch the changes.
I have enjoyed watching Kim's (Kluchetta) boy grow and change. He has grown so much, since she first got him from Leslye. I am the official Aunt.

Purrs,
Stormi
post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Sounds like an average size, He may not get all that big. It takes Raggys about 3-4 yrs to reach full size (like Maine Coons). But he may only reach 14-15, not the 18-20 for a male.


Family Time - I do agree 100% with you - Ragdolls IMO should only be pointed/pointed-bicolor/mitted cats. Not solids. If you want solid or other colors, then go to the Rag muffins (IMO they should not allow the pointed pattern in that breed).

Although Ocicats come in the classic, ticked and ghost spotted (pointed) patterns cause of their ancestors, ONLY the spotted pattern will be in the show rings. The breeders don't want the other patterns to be shown and its not as common to get them unless you are outcrossing to the abys (till 2015).

But in Australia, some of the Ocicat breeders are working with the classic pattern to get them recognized as a separate breed - not part of the Ocicat breed.
I agree, the non-pointeds should have a place with the Ragamuffin breed, and I hope they are not accepted into the Ragdoll standard. So far, the majority of the Ragdoll breeders want the breed to stay a pointed, blue-eyed breed, and the last vote for the non-pointeds did not pass. My information is second hand, but from what I understand, the Ragamuffin breed could have had a chance in TICA, but they refused to drop the pointed variety in their breed. They can be shown in Championship class in ACFA. Unlike the Ragdoll or Birman breed, that are judged by specific patterns, the Ragamuffin is just a "with white" breed. The white spotting factor is not such an issue when showing. I am unsure what the status for them is in CFA. I would need to look that up.


Purrs,
Stormi
post #15 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hi Stormi,

I got a response from his previous owner, she said he was born white

GoldenKitty: thanks so much for the general idea on how big he will get.

His coloring has seemed to change a bit since I first got him as well.

I'm very excited to watch his color change, and see how he grows.

Thx again for all the input guys
post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
But in Australia, some of the Ocicat breeders are working with the classic pattern to get them recognized as a separate breed - not part of the Ocicat breed.
That was only one breeder and the associations said no. In New Zealand they are recognised as Classicats or Jungala, depending on the association.
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by kluchetta View Post
So to figure out his size...how old is he and how much does he weigh? Smudge wasn't a real big size as a kitten, but he's just never stopped growing yet, LOL!
Accually he was one of the smaller in his litter, and seems to be one of the bigger (although his brother Ares died they were both smaller when younger but seemed to not stop growing.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilytimeRags View Post
With the information you gave, I would say he is a blue eyed pointed boy. A beautiful boy, and has grown so much since his last photos.
There is no perfect weight, but I have found that our Ragdolls are usually about a pound heavier than the month of age. 11 months would be about 11-12 pounds. I see the most growth in the first 2 years, but you will see a significant difference in 2 years to 4 years. Ragdolls are very slow to mature. Our oldest male was 18-20 pounds, at 4 years old. He was only 11 pounds at a year old. It is exciting to watch the changes.
I have enjoyed watching Kim's (Kluchetta) boy grow and change. He has grown so much, since she first got him from Leslye. I am the official Aunt.

Purrs,
Stormi
Hello ladies! I have also enjoyed watching him grow and change, you never get to see enough of them grow up in their new homes!
And Stormi, you are the best official aunt too.

I miss you guys, but things have been really bad for me and I haven't been on much, and probley wont be on much now either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake_Lady View Post
Hi Stormi,

I got a response from his previous owner, she said he was born white
When I was working at the humane society, a woman surrenderd a couple cats, one was a sh grey pregnant half ragdoll, her mother was a seal point her father was a sh black stay. The owners pure bred seal bi-color male bred the cat. I fostered the grey cat til she had her kittens. (since owning and breeding ragdolls I couldn't leave them at the shelter) The result were kittens that were 3/4 ragdoll 2 b/w kittens with mitts and the white "inverted V" on the nose (both lh) 1 sh grey polydactyl and 2 white kittens. (1sh 1 lh) The white kittens turned into of course seal mitted blue eyed kittens. (one with the "V") Any way point I am trying to get to is any kitten with the pointed gene will be born white no matter if it is pure bred. Pointed gene is recessive and as long as both parents have or carry the gene some of the kittens will too. These kittens were only 3/4ths ragdoll with a solid gray mom but looked mostly pure bred (like yours, they had uneven marks or black (seal) in the nose area, interupting the "V" pattern) So I would say your cat is most likely 3/4 atleast altough I could be wrong.
post #18 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by celestialrags View Post


When I was working at the humane society, a woman surrenderd a couple cats, one was a sh grey pregnant half ragdoll, her mother was a seal point her father was a sh black stay. The owners pure bred seal bi-color male bred the cat. I fostered the grey cat til she had her kittens. (since owning and breeding ragdolls I couldn't leave them at the shelter) The result were kittens that were 3/4 ragdoll 2 b/w kittens with mitts and the white "inverted V" on the nose (both lh) 1 sh grey polydactyl and 2 white kittens. (1sh 1 lh) The white kittens turned into of course seal mitted blue eyed kittens. (one with the "V") Any way point I am trying to get to is any kitten with the pointed gene will be born white no matter if it is pure bred. Pointed gene is recessive and as long as both parents have or carry the gene some of the kittens will too. These kittens were only 3/4ths ragdoll with a solid gray mom but looked mostly pure bred (like yours, they had uneven marks or black (seal) in the nose area, interupting the "V" pattern) So I would say your cat is most likely 3/4 atleast altough I could be wrong.

Interesting. I do not know about feline genetics at all. Thanks for the info on the pointed gene.

All this makes me more interested to see how he progresses.

It also makes me want to search out another Ragdoll I love Kizzy's temperment, looks, etc. Who knows, maybe in the future. Took me 5-6yrs to convince my hubby of one kitty I'm not going to push my luck for a second anytime soon.
post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake_Lady View Post
Interesting. I do not know about feline genetics at all. Thanks for the info on the pointed gene.

All this makes me more interested to see how he progresses.

It also makes me want to search out another Ragdoll I love Kizzy's temperment, looks, etc. Who knows, maybe in the future. Took me 5-6yrs to convince my hubby of one kitty I'm not going to push my luck for a second anytime soon.

I am curious why the breeder gave the kitten away if both parents were purebred? Did you see any littermates?
post #20 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by celestialrags View Post
I am curious why the breeder gave the kitten away if both parents were purebred? Did you see any littermates?
The woman I got Kizzy from is not a "breeder" in the sense of this forum. Yes, she let her cats breed, but that to me does not make a "breeder".

The parents are not registered in any way. From what she's told me: she bought both the parents as Ragdolls, no papers.

First litter was July 17 2008, only one baby.... which is who I have.

I do not know why such a small litter.

Nor do I go around saying I have a purebred Ragdoll. I know that there is no way to know for sure, which is fine by me. I have no intent on breeding cats at all. There's quite enough wonderful breeders out there, plus I don't want the responsibility of trying to find homes for the kittens.




On a sidenote: I did have a "breeder" contact me and offer me 2 free purebred ragdolls. The message sent to me:
"Hi, I've got two purebred and registered ragdoll kittens available for adoption to a good home. They can go separately but I'd prefer if they go together. They are free, because they've got a cold right now and have been searching for a good home for quite some time now. They're 4 months old, and are from the same litter. They've been to the vet twice already for shots and antibiotics for their cold, but I cannot afford their treatment so I'm asking that they go to a good home where they can receive treatment. Please let me know if you're interested.
Thank you"

I responded: (an excerpt) I am concerned about their "cold". What type of symptoms do they have? Have the antibiotics not worked? That is where my concern is, that you mentioned they have already been into the vet's for antibiotics and it hasn't cured them. If there's a technical name for the "cold" could you let me know so I can research it and find out if its something I am willing to deal with.

I never did hear back from that person
post #21 of 25
I was just curious why the person would breed or let her cats breed but just give them a way, I know you don't care if yours is a pure bred or not, and I wouldn't care if you did "go around saying she /he is a pure bred" who cares if you do? he looks it enough. I just thought the breeder seemed to be hiding some thing, thats all. Like the breeder I was talking about, she took them to the shelter to hide she had some "oops" litters. I was just wondering if this was a simular case, that was all. I thought it may help to know that a half breed and a pure bred makes a 3/4th and this may have been what the breeder did (or her breeder) they look pure bred enough, and they could pass them off as such. Most will tell you with out papers he is a moggie, but if you know about the genetics, and that yours could be 3/4ths or even more than it's good to know, even if it doesn't mean much on paper, only for your self.
post #22 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by celestialrags View Post
I was just curious why the person would breed or let her cats breed but just give them a way, I know you don't care if yours is a pure bred or not, and I wouldn't care if you did "go around saying she /he is a pure bred" who cares if you do? he looks it enough. I just thought the breeder seemed to be hiding some thing, thats all. Like the breeder I was talking about, she took them to the shelter to hide she had some "oops" litters. I was just wondering if this was a simular case, that was all. I thought it may help to know that a half breed and a pure bred makes a 3/4th and this may have been what the breeder did (or her breeder) they look pure bred enough, and they could pass them off as such. Most will tell you with out papers he is a moggie, but if you know about the genetics, and that yours could be 3/4ths or even more than it's good to know, even if it doesn't mean much on paper, only for your self.
Ahhh, I understand your curiousity. I don't think she was hiding anything... she sent me pics of both parents when I asked for them, answered every question and was quite nice.

She did mention that she wanted to breed and sell (for an income), but her health is not great, and her husband has cancer. She said she had planned on keeping him but when she saw my wanted ad, she felt compelled to message me. She didn't have an ad up or anything, but liked mine and with her husbands health deteriorating and her working so much, she felt it best to give Kizzy to me.

honestly, when I first got him, found out he was sick ( URI and ringworm, and a tad underweight) I thought that was the reason she gave him away. Now, after talking to her (I emailed her after I got him home, asking about him wheezing and the missing fur on his tail) I'm pretty sure she didn't know he was sick. She said herself, she didn't have time to love the cats..she fed them, and scooped the box but that was it. She never heard him wheezing and thought the missing fur was due to the fights he got into with his parents.

I keep in contact with her because of the ringworm issue...knowing her husband has had chemo, etc. I wanted to inform her of it, so she could mention it to her dr and hubby's dr.

Hope that helps your curiousity.
post #23 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake_Lady View Post
Interesting. I do not know about feline genetics at all. Thanks for the info on the pointed gene.

All this makes me more interested to see how he progresses.

It also makes me want to search out another Ragdoll I love Kizzy's temperment, looks, etc. Who knows, maybe in the future. Took me 5-6yrs to convince my hubby of one kitty I'm not going to push my luck for a second anytime soon.
Oh yes, Ragdolls are amazing. Although I have 5 cats, I can't imagine the house if I had 5 Ragdolls. Smudge is just INSANE, LOL. But if Kizzy has the Ragdoll temperament, your hubby will fall in love with him. Like potato chips, you can't have just one Ragdoll!
post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Sounds like an average size, He may not get all that big. It takes Raggys about 3-4 yrs to reach full size (like Maine Coons). But he may only reach 14-15, not the 18-20 for a male.


Family Time - I do agree 100% with you - Ragdolls IMO should only be pointed/pointed-bicolor/mitted cats. Not solids. If you want solid or other colors, then go to the Rag muffins (IMO they should not allow the pointed pattern in that breed).

Although Ocicats come in the classic, ticked and ghost spotted (pointed) patterns cause of their ancestors, ONLY the spotted pattern will be in the show rings. The breeders don't want the other patterns to be shown and its not as common to get them unless you are outcrossing to the abys (till 2015).

But in Australia, some of the Ocicat breeders are working with the classic pattern to get them recognized as a separate breed - not part of the Ocicat breed.
We've had the classic Ocicat here in NZCF for about eight years, they're called Classicat's
post #25 of 25
You know, I have to stop thinking of Australia and New Zealand as being the "same" big country. I apoligize to both of you

I kinda like the classics (its different shape then the traditional bullseye on an American SH), but still like the spotted better.
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