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Why do people say "All kittens have worms"?

post #1 of 28
12/15/08 at 10:01pm
Thread Starter 
I've read that statement on this site several times, my kitty's previous owner asked me if I had gotten him dewormed yet, etc.

My kitten has not been "dewormed", and he does not have worms. (shown by a fecal sample taken to the vets).

I do not understand the why's of the statement that all kittens have worms...
(someone said it might be because the momma cat can eat fecal matter from time to time).

very curious on this one.

I'd much rather pay $15 for a fecal exam, than $6 for OTC deworming meds, and subject my kitty to something he does not need. But I'm very confused as to why deworming is recommended by alot, instead of fecal exams prior to it. (my vet goes the fecal exam route)
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post #2 of 28
12/15/08 at 10:06pm
Most kittens will have worms as they lay dormant in the mother until she is pregnant ...

even my vet who if they arent kitten or puppy says fecal unless you see a worm ... worms kittens automatically
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post #3 of 28
12/15/08 at 11:10pm
Kittens are also fairly fragile, and don't have as good immune systems. If they get worms it can really mess with their little systems. Better to avoid that.
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post #4 of 28
12/15/08 at 11:17pm
Cleo was wormed before I got her but the vet still wants a fecal.
We turned that in today.
I doubt she has worms.
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post #5 of 28
12/16/08 at 1:35am
We all have worms - humans, cats, dogs... The problem is, which one do we have??
Another thing to consider with cats: sorry to be gross... they lick poop out of their behinds... They are bound to have worms. The problem is when they get the bad ones, and they body can not fight...
Question for the holistic experts: Pumpkin seeds are often used as natural dewormers - do you guys have experience with? Below is how it is generally used - have you ever discussed this method with your holistic vets?

Pumpkin seeds, freshly ground: Try to grind up pumpkin seeds finely right before feeding as opposed to grinding them several days in advance. If you must grind them in advance, keep them in a sealed container in the freezer and take out a day's portion right before feeding. You don't want moisture to enter the seeds. The seeds need to be raw, not baked and salted. Give 1/4 to 1 teaspoon per meal to your animal, depending on size (a cat will get 1/4 teaspoon, but a German Shepherd would get 1 teaspoon). This is effective
against tapeworms and very safe.
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post #6 of 28
12/16/08 at 6:26am
All the kittens that I've ever encountered were born feral, so I automatically do it, assuming that their moms had worms. I would think that if you weren't sure about the background of a kitten (because of their immature immune system), that you should do it.
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post #7 of 28
12/16/08 at 6:33am
Thread Starter 
Ahhh, I think I understand it now Thanks.

I was just curious because when the previous owner asked if I had dewormed Kizzy, I said no, she looked at me like I was nuts. I explained that my vet had done a fecal and did not find any worms or eggs, and that I didn't need to worm.

So based on the info in the posts above, Kizzy does have some worms, just not the bad worms?
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post #8 of 28
12/16/08 at 7:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake_Lady View Post
Ahhh, I think I understand it now Thanks.

I was just curious because when the previous owner asked if I had dewormed Kizzy, I said no, she looked at me like I was nuts. I explained that my vet had done a fecal and did not find any worms or eggs, and that I didn't need to worm.

So based on the info in the posts above, Kizzy does have some worms, just not the bad worms?
That statement confuses me too. I know we all have bacteria, good and bad, and a healthy system keeps the bad ones at bay but I have never heard of having worms. I would do a fecal before treating too, but I am super picky about what I give my cats. I drive my vet nuts cause I research and question everything!
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post #9 of 28
12/16/08 at 7:49am
It's also important to remember that not all internal parasites will show up on a fecal exam. Sometimes roundworms and hook worms can be difficult to get on a fecal. So are tapes if they're not shedding body segments.

To say your cat is truely "clean," you'd have to run a number of fecal exams, and even then...it's unlikley that you could be sure with 100% certainty.

Considering that the alternative is a cheap, effective wormer that's extremely well-tolerated with a HUGE margin of safety, I think it's best to just go ahead and worm kittens.
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post #10 of 28
12/16/08 at 9:12am
Cats can get tapeworms from fleas.
All they have to do is eat one flea.
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post #11 of 28
12/16/08 at 9:34am
Mine was living in the woods, eating who knows what, so I assumed she had worms. They started her on a worm regimen but the test came back negative for worms. She had Ghiardia which I think was worse. It took longer to clear up. We had 2 different kinds of wormer for Lola, and it cleared up the Ghiardia and any worms that didn't show up in her fecal test. I also assumed she had fleas and ear mites, but she had neither.

If kittens have worms/ghiardia or anything else like that, they usually have stool problems like diarrhea or loose/soft stool.

Your vet will be the best to help decide on worm treatments.
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post #12 of 28
12/16/08 at 9:41am
Just a note about the original post: If your vet decided that your kitten/cat needed to be dewormed, he/she would give you a prescription dewormer, not an over the counter product. From my understanding, OTC products should not be used, as they can be dangerous.
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post #13 of 28
12/16/08 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simkie View Post
It's also important to remember that not all internal parasites will show up on a fecal exam. Sometimes roundworms and hook worms can be difficult to get on a fecal. So are tapes if they're not shedding body segments.
That is true, so thats odd her vet would say a kitten didnt have worms and not to deworm him, especially not knowing for sure.
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post #14 of 28
12/16/08 at 10:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pami View Post
That is true, so thats odd her vet would say a kitten didnt have worms and not to deworm him, especially not knowing for sure.
very interesting. I will ask about that next time I'm in. But I did specifically ask my vet if I needed to deworm Kizzy, and she said no the fecal was clear.

I do trust my vet completely. But I will question her about:
Quote:
It's also important to remember that not all internal parasites will show up on a fecal exam. Sometimes roundworms and hook worms can be difficult to get on a fecal. So are tapes if they're not shedding body segments
Quote:
That statement confuses me too. I know we all have bacteria, good and bad, and a healthy system keeps the bad ones at bay but I have never heard of having worms. I would do a fecal before treating too, but I am super picky about what I give my cats. I drive my vet nuts cause I research and question everything!
Me neither hence being more confused now LOL. But yes, I am very picky, and have learned with the effect of meds on humans, that I do not give my animals what I consider not needed meds.

Thanks for the info...
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post #15 of 28
12/16/08 at 11:22am
Thread Starter 
The quest for knowledge continues.

I've never been one to listen to someone who says "do this", me "why", "just because I said so". I like reasons. I prefer documented proofs actually.

Here's some pages I've found with worthwhile info. I've tried to describe the link underneath it.

http://www.cathealth.com/gutworms.htm

The above link tells about the different worms, very good link.. It also does say that all kittens need treatment even if stool is negative. What they don't say is why.

http://www.thepetcenter.com/exa/worms.html

A really good read, and it does say in there that the eggs of all of the types of worms mentioned can be seen in a fecal. Later on it does mention that Tapeworm eggs do not show up well in fecal samples. ( so sometimes they show up, sometimes they don't)

That link above has great pics, and awesome info.

http://www.homevet.com/petcare/kittens.html#worms

a link with a reason. Tapeworm segments do not pass through with every stool or even every day. Ok, now that would be a good reason to deworm... IF, other symptoms are present.

I'm looking at my kitty.
- He's on antibiotics for a RI, which is gone now (WOOHOO...yes he is still getting the antibiotics till they are done)
- he is slightly underweight (4.2lbs for a 5mos old Ragdoll) which I will blame on his being fed adult food, not kitten food
- he 'possibly' has ringworm. The test takes 2wks to come back.

He does not have any worm type symptoms. Any of the articles I've been reading, the worms can be dormat till a time of stress and then they show up. My kitty had LOTS of stress being moved a week ago, going to the vets, etc. The stool sample was from a time of stress.

I'm quite content with my decision of not forcing unnessecary meds upon him.. I really see no evidence that he has worms.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...32/ai_54756609

This article is the ONLY one, that says anything about every kitty or dog has worms. It says "close to" 100% have worms.

Nowhere have I found anything that has said ALL animals or ALL cats have worms.

http://ezinearticles.com/?An-Introdu...Cats&id=803378

This one says that worms are very common, and up to 75% of kitties have them.

Well, it has been very very interesting for me to research this. I love learning different things, and understanding the whys.... now I can understand why several fecal samples would have to be done to be 100% sure.

I can also completely understand why my vet would tell me I don't need to deworm. Which I'm happy about because I trust her, but was worried a little with the one post not understanding why my vet said I did not need to deworm Kizzy. No symptoms of worms, no evidence of worms, etc. I do understand that tapeworms can be difficult to see.

Thanks for all the input.
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post #16 of 28
12/16/08 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleraven7726 View Post
If kittens have worms/ghiardia or anything else like that, they usually have stool problems like diarrhea or loose/soft stool.
You forgot to mention the dreaded coccidia, which can cause horrible diarrhea. I've had kittens show up with that "lovely" disease.
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post #17 of 28
12/16/08 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake_Lady View Post

He does not have any worm type symptoms.
Havent you mentioned that your kitty has loose stool? That is a symptom.
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post #18 of 28
12/16/08 at 1:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pami View Post
Havent you mentioned that your kitty has loose stool? That is a symptom.
One time, yes he did. When I called the vet on Monday she said it was most likely due to the antibiotics.(she had warned me they can cause loose stool/diarrhea ahead of time) That was Sunday night. It had firmed back up on Monday

I really don't think that 1 loose stool out of 6, while being on antibiotics and having a food change, is a symptom of worms.

I will have her check a fecal sample again, during his next check up though
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post #19 of 28
12/20/08 at 6:01pm
Regarding worms, this is what I have read from Dr. Susan Little. This is her words, not mine. I am just quoting what she has said......

Our homes are not sterile environments - flies
and other insects get in, some of which will carry parasites, for
example. We bring in new cats from time to time. Lots of ways that
parasites can slip between the cracks - after all, that's what they
are good at.

The biggest reason is that it is a human health issue. The number of
children in North America who become infected with roundworms from
puppies and kittens is staggering and the consequences can be very
sad. It is so simple to guarantee to a new pet buyer that you have
done your duty as a breeder and showed responsibility for protecting
people from zoonotic infections by simply deworming your cats. There
are great, easy to use, cheap products available in North America.

So I ask - why would you NOT deworm your cats? What's the down side?

For more information, see the Companion Animal Parasite Council for
more information:
http://www.capcvet.org/

__^^__^^__^^__^^__^^__^^
Susan Little, DVM, DABVP (Feline)
President, Winn Feline Foundation
www.winnfelinehealth.org
www.winnfelinehealth.blogspot.com

VIN Consultant (Feline, Repro/Genetics)
www.vin.com

Purrs,
Stormi
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post #20 of 28
12/21/08 at 3:03pm
I wondered about this question too before I took Jake to his first vet visit for his shots and deworming. On the humane society webpage, they don't test they just give them dewormer...But doesn't the dewormer affect their stomach, I thought I read somewhere that it can give them diarrhea???
Anyway, Jake's stools were a perfect consistency and color, his tummy wasn't too large and he was eating well, plus he is at a perfect weight.. so I just didn't want to have him dewormed if he had no worms..
I took him to the vet, and turns out that vet always does a test and never deworms prior to testing..The test was negative so no dewormer was needed there...
The vet said that only stray kitties and outdoors kitties have worms- and Jake and his mother are both indoor only .....
In two weeks, Jake is getting his next set of shots and the vet told me he will do another fecal test because the worms could somehow infest?? I don't quite understand how, but I trust him..
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post #21 of 28
12/21/08 at 9:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
In two weeks, Jake is getting his next set of shots and the vet told me he will do another fecal test because the worms could somehow infest?? I don't quite understand how, but I trust him..
What I learned was that tapeworm eggs can be hard to see through the fecal exam.

As well, tapeworm segments don't come out with every poop. They may come out with one, then not again for a few more poops.

Hope that helps.
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post #22 of 28
12/22/08 at 9:42am
When I was breeding I always had mom checked before she was bred. My cats don't go outside, don't have fleas and don't eat raw meat, so they never had worms.

Neither did the kittens (but they were checked when given 1st shots by the vet). So they were not automatically wormed either.

I only check and worm if I see something. Otherwise its not a routine thing.

The only reason most do it, is cause you pick up strays or the parents are not checked, etc. But IMO you should never automatically worm unless the vet has checked them out. This goes for cat or kitten. Worm medicines are poisons and its not good to just give it to a cat/kitten that has no problems.
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post #23 of 28
12/22/08 at 10:10pm
I worm my cats every three months. Two of my cats go outside and catch birds so I wouldn't risk anything.

I use the dewormer in the link below.

http://www.foodtown.co.nz/HomeShoppi...ockcode=272336
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post #24 of 28
12/23/08 at 3:55am
As far as I have ever heard from my studies as a medical professional, We all have bacteria but not worms.

That said, my cats get tested twice a year, just in case. And they haven't come up with worms. But they are not kittens. I have heard of kittens that didn't have worms when they were young though.
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post #25 of 28
12/23/08 at 5:57am
Some people don't believe in vaccinating their children against Polio, measles, etc. either because the odds are their children won't get those things. I prefer preventative action myself but everyone has to make their own decisions on how they will treat their own pets.

My feeling is if a dewormer isn't going to kill our pet or cause any kind of internal damage to their organs, then it is safer for them than having worms IMO. It's also better to ensure there are no worms if there are children around our homes handling our cats.
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post #26 of 28
12/27/08 at 5:17am
My earlier advice is from Dr. Susan Little, the President of the Winn Feline Foundation, and a feline specialist.
I will continue using my vet for preventative measures against worms. He uses a safe, effective worming medication, and I know that my cats/kittens, as well as my family are safe.
Just because a cat is indoors only, it only takes one fly or mosquito to come in, and bring worms into the home.

Purrs,
Stormi
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post #27 of 28
12/27/08 at 10:46am
flies and mosquitos carry heartworm
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post #28 of 28
12/29/08 at 8:01am
My 4 have been dewormed just because of the Mom. We had bouts of runny pooh, and the deworming shots helped.
Now after 5 tests of fecal. We have never found worms but shots were given anyway. Okay so I have one cat who gets the runs all the time. She thinks she is a Labrador, she eats anything and all she finds he took some stuff out of her teeth last month when we were in with boody pooh. We ran more samples and found nothing. So come to find out, there are so many different kinds if bugs that they can have in the tummy vets don't normaly run the test because of cost. So my dog cat is now on a cat probiotic, and dang it works really well. And now Doc has started to agree with me about the IBD. He says she is young for it, but it kinda makes sence. So her diet is kept without corn and glutens, not too much fiber, and not as much food as they were getting,cuz they are all fat, and sassy!
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