So tired of loose stool. Possible IBD, suggestions? Kind of long.

kady05

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My Ragdoll, Brody, who I've posted about here before, is now suspected to have inflammatory bowel disease.

He has been on the Royal Canin Limited Ingredient Rabbit & Green Pea for about 6 months now. We switched him from Chicken Soup (had also tried Felidae & Natural Balance Duck) because we suspected a food allergy. He did improve, but still never had 'normal' stools. Then a couple weeks ago it was like we were back to square one! I have no clue what set this off, as nothing has changed. I'm very strict with his eating; he gets nothing but the RC food.

So off the the vet we go. No parasites in his stool as usual. So vet & I talked, and he said we should treat him as if he had IBD. He said the testing for it is kind of invasive, so if he responds to the Prednisone, we'll pretty much have a diagnosis. So he started 5mg of Prednisone on 12/3, 1 pill a day for 7 days, then 1 pill every other day til gone (I have 20 pills).

I do think he has improved, but he is still not normal. I'm thinking it's still a food issue, but the vet didn't want me to change anything yet (said he didn't want to throw another wrench into the picture).
Can anyone tell me how long it took them to see improvement after starting Prednisone on IBD cats?
I do have 3 other cats, one being another Ragdoll who also has 'pooping issues' (I swear it's a Ragdoll thing!), so I'm sometimes not sure who's is who's, if you get what I'm saying. The Ragdolls are the only ones that aren't normal in that category though, so it's not too hard to tell. Anyway, I'm planning on keeping Brody separate tomorrow night so I can know for sure how he's doing.

Does anyone have food suggestions, or any supplements for IBD cats? I've read that raw can be great for them, but that's just not practical for me. He's on all dry now, because every time I've tried wet food it makes him worse. However, I'm willing to try it again if it could possibly help him.

Sorry this is so long, I'm just so tired of this. I just want him to have normal poop!
 

carolina

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Lucky had a poop problem until I took her off Purina One. I transitioned her to Nutro Natural Complete Indoor Kitten, and now I am transitioning her to Orijen. Only when I started transitioning her to Orijen her poop became normal... She is also a Ragdoll. Are you sure this is not a food problem?
 

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Did your vet run a PCR test for tritrichomonas foetus? It's a special test run for this somewhat rare parasite that is becoming more and more common in purebred and shelter kitties. I would definitely rule this out before you go the IBD route as it can be eliminated (in most) whereas IBD has no real cure. My baby had this so feel free to pm me if you have any questions. Unfortunately, she also has IBD so I can help with that too if you find out he definitely has it, but you need to r/o tritrich first if at all possible. Best of luck to you and your little one.
 

twokatz

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You don't say what tests you have had and what parasites you have tested for. The symptoms you are describing are the most common ones found in a parasite called Tritrichomonas Foetus. Many of these cats are diagnosed as IBD when no other diagnosis can be made. These parasites CANNOT be seen at the vets or even in the lab without proper handling and testing. Before you resort to something like Pred, which will not help it, please, check out Jody Gookin NSCU or if you even research on the net under feline Tritrichomonas Foetus you will get her website. It took me two years before I learned about this, thousands of dollars in testing and mis-diagnosing. There are others on this forum who have also had cats with this, many vets are not yet educated on this, I would print Dr. Gookins info sheet for owners and take it to your vet.
 

raggiekitty

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Another ragdoll poopy butt owner here

I had so many problems with getting Zoe straightened out. Finally, from reading several posts advising Eukenuba or Iams hairball food for these problems I decided all the "good" foods hadn't worked so.......
I changed her over to Iams hairball and I just couldn't believe the change. After she became stable..(and I did notice even more improvement after she turned 1) I slowly added Iams Naturals chicken until it was 50/50. It never gave her a problem.....then months later I added in Innova for the good quality stuff
so we have a 3 part mixture going and no more poopy problems (knock on wood really quickly!)

I have read lots more posts on a ragdoll forum and many seem to have the sensitive stomach issue.

I understand your pain and I hope you find what works for your kitties really soon!

Oh and I'm sure it's individual..but.. I did try the RC food 2 seperate times when she was a kitten and it always made her start throwing up pretty regularly.
 

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Please have a through parasite check ... if that yeilds nothing then ask about a probiotic supplement
 

the_food_lady

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Have you ever considered trying a grain-free dry food? I have a cat who had loose stools for years, of varying degree. Thousands of dollars of Vet visits, stool samples, antibiotics "just in case", prednisone, diet changes.......only to eventually determine it was the grains in both dry and canned. Prior to learning this, I did have success with a prescription dry food that was very high in fiber....a line of prescription food made here in Canada (but I believe Americans could order it, or have Vet order it) called Medi-Cal Fibre. It actually worked very well for him, but at the time I had 3 other cats, it was impossible to feed him separately and I simply couldn't afford to feed this to all of them on a long term basis.

http://www.medi-cal.ca/diets/diets.php?diet=28

I just went to the website, http://www.medi-cal.ca/ and I was surprised to see the Royal Canin logo on the site..........maybe they make it too?

Might be worth considering?? I do think the Medi-Cal line of food (they have various prescription diets) is a lot better in taste and quality than Hill's, that's for sure. I used to have a CRF kitty and she would not eat the Hill's K/D if her life depended on it (who'd blame her, it looked like putty in a can) but she loved the Medi-Cal canned formula for cats w/ CRF......it was a really great consistency.

I no longer have this problem with Taco because he developed Diabetes just about 6 yrs ago. At the time, there really wasn't a "low carb dry" food other than Hill's (whatever the one for diabetes was) and I find that food crap ...........so I opted to switch him straight over to canned food only, twice a day. Stools are nice and firm and formed. The odd time I'll try a canned food that contains grains and he'll loosen up a bit.......so it's definitely the grains.

So maybe consider a grain-free dry (Orijen, Instinct, Go Natural, EVO, Wellness Core)........or consider giving the Medi-Cal Fibre a try. You could call up the company and ask how an American would go about getting it.

Lisa
 

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Ive always thought that the "better" foods are only better if it suits your cats. A food you may never want to feed your cat because you feel its a bad food may actually be good for your cat!! It can't be good to have poops like that all the time. My two labradors had the best most expensive foods for months with pudding poops all the time- now even though i hate the fact that their food is cr*p they are doing really well on it. You couldn't get more solid poops!! So dont be scared to try some of the cheaper foods. Good Luck xx
 

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Coco had loose stools for the first 1 1/2 years of her life. The only thing I found that helped her was a prebiotic/probiotic/digestive enzyme supplement (Eagle Pack Holistic Solution). After just 2 days with that mixed in her food her stools were normal and have been for over a year.
 
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kady05

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Originally Posted by tamgirl99

Did your vet run a PCR test for tritrichomonas foetus? It's a special test run for this somewhat rare parasite that is becoming more and more common in purebred and shelter kitties. I would definitely rule this out before you go the IBD route as it can be eliminated (in most) whereas IBD has no real cure. My baby had this so feel free to pm me if you have any questions. Unfortunately, she also has IBD so I can help with that too if you find out he definitely has it, but you need to r/o tritrich first if at all possible. Best of luck to you and your little one.
Hi, no, we haven't run that test, but I have read about that type of parasite (I had another post on here where someone mentioned it). I did print out the info. for him when I went, and he had heard of it before. We talked about it, and decided to try the Prednisone first because the treatment for that parasite kind of scares me (I read that neurological issues can occur, etc.). Also, since he did improve when first put on the RC diet, the vet thinks that was a sign that it's probably not a parasite. He said if the Prednisone doesn't help, then we could order the tests and see about the treatment. It also says that the cats typically grow out of it by 2yrs. old. Brody is a year & a half.

I'm not sure exactly what parasites he's been tested for; he's just had numerous fecals done and they've always been clean, with no excess bacteria, etc. He has been on Metronidizole before, and had been wormed again (when I first got him).

I have not tried a grain free food yet, but was considering that if the Prednisone didn't work, because I think it's a food issue, since his poop did firm up quite a bit when first put on the RC diet. I will look into those links you posted, thanks.

Now our other Ragdoll, Ozzy, seems to having more of the problems. He's a very skittish cat though, so I think some of his is stress related (we've been putting Christmas decorations up). I swear, these expensive kitties are driving me nuts! Interesting to hear that Ragdolls seem to have sensitive stomachs.. I'll have to look up a good Ragdoll forum.
 
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kady05

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Originally Posted by mschauer

Coco had loose stools for the first 1 1/2 years of her life. The only thing I found that helped her was a prebiotic/probiotic/digestive enzyme supplement (Eagle Pack Holistic Solution). After just 2 days with that mixed in her food her stools were normal and have been for over a year.
I have actually had this before, and used it on my other Ragdoll that had issues as well (I had to have him put down last year after Christmas, posted about it here). It did seem to help him; I think I'm going to order some now.
 

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I'm glad you read up on TF and you are right about POSSIBLE side effects of Ronidazole to treat it, but the side effects of Pred are terrible too. With TF parasite it can come and go and some things SEEM to make it better when in fact they aren't. The key to the Ronidazole is to know what to watch for and stopping the drug if you see any signs, the danger comes with continuing if there are problems. I would highly reccomend testing so you know and can make a decision based on facts before you try treating with something that could be harmful or at the least not effective. I would also suggest you have your Vet contact Dr. Gookin, she is wonderful to respond and help out. This is where I wish I had've done things different. My vet had also heard of it but thought it was not likely so we tried so many things, spent so much money, and put the cats through so much that I wish I had've had the test done to start. The other problem is that with mine having it so long we face the possibility of IBD down the road. Please reconsider and if sending the stool to the lab is too expensive there are pouches and directions for using them on Dr. Gookin's site. Giving the Pred, antibiotcs, and changing food may seem to help in the beginning only to have flare-ups. If the tests prove negative then you can at least move on maybe. One note you sometimes get a false negative so the pouch is much cheaper if you need to retest, a positive test is alway positive. Maybe your vet would be willing to help you with the pouch test also. This can also be passed to other cats, so if one is postive they both probably have it.
 
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kady05

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Originally Posted by twokatz

I'm glad you read up on TF and you are right about POSSIBLE side effects of Ronidazole to treat it, but the side effects of Pred are terrible too. With TF parasite it can come and go and some things SEEM to make it better when in fact they aren't. The key to the Ronidazole is to know what to watch for and stopping the drug if you see any signs, the danger comes with continuing if there are problems. I would highly reccomend testing so you know and can make a decision based on facts before you try treating with something that could be harmful or at the least not effective. I would also suggest you have your Vet contact Dr. Gookin, she is wonderful to respond and help out. This is where I wish I had've done things different. My vet had also heard of it but thought it was not likely so we tried so many things, spent so much money, and put the cats through so much that I wish I had've had the test done to start. The other problem is that with mine having it so long we face the possibility of IBD down the road. Please reconsider and if sending the stool to the lab is too expensive there are pouches and directions for using them on Dr. Gookin's site. Giving the Pred, antibiotcs, and changing food may seem to help in the beginning only to have flare-ups. If the tests prove negative then you can at least move on maybe. One note you sometimes get a false negative so the pouch is much cheaper if you need to retest, a positive test is alway positive. Maybe your vet would be willing to help you with the pouch test also. This can also be passed to other cats, so if one is postive they both probably have it.
My vet said that if the Prednisone doesn't help, then we can definitely test for the TF to rule that out (or in). I'm going to seperate him tonight so I can see for sure how he's doing.
 

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I agree with everything that twokatz has said. Steroids should be a last resort as they can cause so many additional issues and can just mask the true health problem. While RDZ can be a bit scary after reading some of the literature out there, fear of treating this parasite doesn't change whether or not your kitty has it. I treated both my little one (at the time she was 5 months) who was positive and my older cat and neither had any problems at all. Ultimately it's your decision but I personally would try to rule out everything else before turning to steroids.

Best of luck and please keep us posted!
 
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kady05

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Originally Posted by tamgirl99

I agree with everything that twokatz has said. Steroids should be a last resort as they can cause so many additional issues and can just mask the true health problem. While RDZ can be a bit scary after reading some of the literature out there, fear of treating this parasite doesn't change whether or not your kitty has it. I treated both my little one (at the time she was 5 months) who was positive and my older cat and neither had any problems at all. Ultimately it's your decision but I personally would try to rule out everything else before turning to steroids.

Best of luck and please keep us posted!
Question. If I were to order the tests for the TF, which one(s) would I order? Vet said he could look into it, but I figured I could do it myself if needed.
A little late as far as the steroids go, since he's already been on them a week. I suppose I can stop them though, but don't want to do that without talking to the vet first.

I did just email their breeder to ask if she's ever heard of TF, so hopefully she'll respond with some more insight.
 

tamgirl99

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The test you need to have run is called a PCR test. I've attached a link below which explains how to submit the sample, however, they will only take the sample directly from the vet. It's not an inexpensive test, around $75-150 depending on the markup, but for me it was worth it to know if I needed to treat her for TF.

http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/docs/documen...ised042808.pdf

Also, do not stop the steriod treatment as it needs to be continued and tapered down by your vet appropriately. I didn't realize you already had him on it at the time so I apologize if my comments were misleading. You will likely want to wait until his treatment is finished as your kitty shouldn't be on any meds at least a week before you have the PCR test run, particularly antibiotics or you may not get a true result.

Since you've had him on the pred for a week, have you noticed any improvement?
 
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kady05

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Originally Posted by tamgirl99

The test you need to have run is called a PCR test. I've attached a link below which explains how to submit the sample, however, they will only take the sample directly from the vet. It's not an inexpensive test, around $75-150 depending on the markup, but for me it was worth it to know if I needed to treat her for TF.

http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/docs/documen...ised042808.pdf

Also, do not stop the steriod treatment as it needs to be continued and tapered down by your vet appropriately. I didn't realize you already had him on it at the time so I apologize if my comments were misleading. You will likely want to wait until his treatment is finished as your kitty shouldn't be on any meds at least a week before you have the PCR test run, particularly antibiotics or you may not get a true result.

Since you've had him on the pred for a week, have you noticed any improvement?
Thank you for that link.

Yes, I do think he has improved since being on the Prednisone. He'll start on one pill every other day tomorrow, so will be finished in the beginning of January (vet gave me 20 pills). Like I said, I'm going to seperate him tonight so I can really see how he's doing, and will post about that tomorrow morning.

His breeder emailed me back and said she has never heard of TF. She said I could try to cut out any corn in their diet, and possibly try a food with less fat, more fiber.
 

tamgirl99

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Originally Posted by kady05

His breeder emailed me back and said she has never heard of TF.
That doesn't surprise me at all. It's just now starting to become more known in the cat population. My breeder found out about it right around the time I got my kitten and I'm SO glad as I would have been lost had I not known what to test her for. There is only one study that I'm aware of that has been conducted in the states on the prevelance of this parasite in cats. It showed that at an international cat show, 30% of the cats tested were infected with the parasite. To me that is an alarming number given that most breeders (and vets!) know little to nothing about it.

If you truly suspect IBD, then now is the time to start eliminating those things in his diet that are likely causes of inflammation, otherwise the symptoms will return just as much as before as soon as the pred is discontinued. I don't remember what you said you were feeding, but your first elimination should be all grains. As your breeder mentioned, corn is another one to eliminate. I'm actually finding out that my baby does better without any veggies at all. Try to narrow your food choice down to just one protein source if possible, not fish though. I actually suspect chicken may be a problem for my little one so I eventually plan to try an elimination diet with rabbit only. Venison and duck are other good choices and both work well for many IBD kitties I know.

Does your kitty ever hunch after he eats? Do you ever see him smacking his lips?
 
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kady05

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His breeder also asked if I had done a course of Clavamox & Albon. I know Clavamox is an antibiodic, but not sure what Albon is, and how those two things could help?

Both of them are on the Royal Canin Limted Ingredient Rabbit & Green Pea. Here are the ingredients:

Ground peas, rabbit meal, rabbit, pea protein, canola oil, rabbit digest, calcium sulfate, dicalcium phosphate, salmon oil, DL-methionine, choline chloride, sodium chloride, L-lysine, potassium citrate, phosphoric acid, vitamins [DL-alpha-tocopherol (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), niacin, inositol, vitamin A supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), D-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin (vitamin B2), menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), beta-carotene, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement], minerals [zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, iron proteinate, copper sulfate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], taurine, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract, and citric acid.

No, I've never noticed him doing either of those things. He's a great eater, and loves food.[/size]
 

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Just a little more info on the testing for Tritrich, it is on the website Tamgirl gave you but if possible go two weeks without any meds, that is what My vet was told. Antibiotics make it better while on them but it can mess up the results. I can understand why Pred would make it seem to get better because it takes some of the gut inflamation out, but it is a short term thing.I felt a little overwhelmed with trying to test myself, maybe your vet would be willing to help, the PCR can be expensive. The parasite is actually quite fragile and does not live long outside the body. The stool has to be diarrhetic to test, it is even better if your vet gets some with a loop. It doesn't take much, too much messes it up. Do not regrigerate the sample that will kill it. My Vet called Dr Gookin several times during this process, her phone number is on her website. Dr. Gookin's site explains all pretty well.

My breeder also told me she never heard of it and to try different foods, more fiber. I have a contact in her area in a postion to know that she has known for some time that she has it.

I really do wish you the best, and please keep us posted. Most cats tolerate the RDZ okay, you just have to watch them for issues.
 
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