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Raw feeding

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I've done some research on raw feedings and I'm a bit confused? A few websites list a large mixture of meats, suppliments and such in their meals while others just show pics of their cat just eating a chicken leg as a meal.

What all do they ACTUALLY need? Also, the websites are stating the items that you need but not how much even though they state that its dangerous to over due certain suppliments.

So I would like to know, for feeding a healthy 1yr cat, what do YOU feed. How much do you feed in a serving and what items and how much of each do you use in your meals?

Thank you in advance! =D
post #2 of 25
In a perfect world with the "perfect picture of health cat" you would only need fresh muscle meat, organs and bones...

on ave a 10lb cat would eat 4-5 oz of raw

Many on here feel they are able to perfectly balance a raw diet with no outside help... I don't think that , I work with my vet who lucky for me has a companion animal nutrition degree.... I may have majored in human nutrition and done yrs of research on animal nutrition but still I feel that someone who is schooled in said area is a needed resource
post #3 of 25
I don't supplement, except for fish oil and I don't grind meat. I follow the % on this website http://rawfedcats.org/naturesway.htm

My cats get most kinds of meat for variety.
post #4 of 25
Thread Starter 
Okay, heres another question. I had Mya on Blue Buffalo and I am currently changing her over to By Nature Organics. Has anyone ever used either?

Doing the raw meals honestly seems fairly expensive so my question was, would it be okay to just feed chunks of raw chicken leg or thigh (for teeth, gum, and jaw development and care) mixed in with the wet food i've been feeding?

I've read through the labels on the Blue and on the Organics and neither contain any of the harmful items that i've read to watch out for.
post #5 of 25
Yes, you can give some raw to supplement ....you just dont want to feed raw with canned often since they digest at different rates...

BB the cats were not fond off ( dog liked) they will eat the by nature pouches and cans
post #6 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hrm..I forgot about the digestion rates..okay well then, since she eats less at night, I could give her the canned in the morning (I have to mix it in with her meds for the next month anyway) and then the chicken at night.
post #7 of 25
I don't know about the chicken leg so much as a meal, but alot of owners do this to keep up with the kitties dental care, chewing on the raw bones is good for them. But remember to NEVER give them cooked bones as they are brittle and can cause some damage.
post #8 of 25
If you feed raw exclusively you need to be sure you feed what would roughly equal what a cat would eat on it's own, an entire mouse an entire bird, etc. The organs and bones are important. So you can't just feed chicken legs but it's not as complicated as a lot people believe. There is plenty of information easily available to teach you what you need to know.

Feeding raw chunks of meat or chicken necks once or twice a week will probably help a lot with dental health even if you feed mostly canned.

For information on raw feeding see these:

www.holisicat.com
www.catinfo.org
www.catnutrition.org

Edit - About the cost, it varies greatly with how you do it. I've seen the range of something like $1.30 - $1.60 per day per cat as an average. If you do want to look into it you should know that this website is fairly anti-raw feeding. You will get much better support from other sources.
post #9 of 25
Information on this site is for general informational purposes only and is provided without warranty or guarantee of any kind. This site is not intended to replace professional advice from your own veterinarian and nothing on this site is intended as a medical diagnosis or treatment. Any questions about your animal's health should be directed to your veterinarian.



http://www.catinfo.org/


Information on catnutrition.org is for general information purposes only and is provided without warranty or guarantee of any kind. The content on this site is written by a lay person with no veterinary training. The website is not intended to replace professional advice from your own veterinarian and nothing on this site is intended as a medical diagnosis or treatment. Any questions about your animal's health should be directed to a professional animal health care provider. Site content may be used for any purpose without explicit permission unless otherwise specified. If you'd like to support the maintenance of this website, voluntary donations are happily and most gratefully accepted.
http://www.catnutrition.org/index.php

should speak for itself
post #10 of 25
Using the current AAFCO cat nutrition profile http://www.peteducation.com/article....1+1399&aid=657 , every nutrient a cat needs is found in meat, bones, and organs. Just analyzed my diet for a vet and showed that my raw diet meets and exceeds the current recommendations of the AAFCO.

I only supplement taurine(can't find hearts) and salmon oil(can't find heads to feed).

This seems to be the trend of the board. It would be a good idea to talk to a knowledgeable vet.

But with the right knowledge feeding cats is not too difficult. Kind of hard to say that cats for thousands of years were eating the wrong things.
post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
Information on this site is for general informational purposes only and is provided without warranty or guarantee of any kind. This site is not intended to replace professional advice from your own veterinarian and nothing on this site is intended as a medical diagnosis or treatment. Any questions about your animal's health should be directed to your veterinarian.



http://www.catinfo.org/


Information on catnutrition.org is for general information purposes only and is provided without warranty or guarantee of any kind. The content on this site is written by a lay person with no veterinary training. The website is not intended to replace professional advice from your own veterinarian and nothing on this site is intended as a medical diagnosis or treatment. Any questions about your animal's health should be directed to a professional animal health care provider. Site content may be used for any purpose without explicit permission unless otherwise specified. If you'd like to support the maintenance of this website, voluntary donations are happily and most gratefully accepted.
http://www.catnutrition.org/index.php

should speak for itself
Just disclaimers. Nothing unique about them. We have disclaimers that we use " I am not a vet, and you need to talk to your vet"
post #12 of 25
As Sharky said, we do not so much discourage raw feeding as we try to get the poster to do their research and work with a vet.

You can find all sorts of information on the internet but it isn't necessarily the best information nor infallible. We have at least one long-term member who has been working with cat rescue and care for many, many years who lost some cats due to raw feeding so even the best informed and knowledgeable people have had some bad results.

Working with a qualified vet, whether it be holistic or not, is the very best course of action. I think we can all say things like "well, I had a cat for 20 years that I fed this junk food to and it was fine". Yes, how lucky they were. I had a Siamese for many years when I was young and when I look back I can only say that in my ignorance of the proper way to care for her, I was extremely lucky that she was so healthy or she may never have survived for the 14 years she brought joy to my life.

I have learned more here in the few years I've been here than I learned in all my years on a farm since on a farm cats are mainly kept as mousers in the barns and out-buildings. Our family pets are a whole different matter IMO and should be cared for accordingly.
post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
We have at least one long-term member who has been working with cat rescue and care for many, many years who lost some cats due to raw feeding so even the best informed and knowledgeable people have had some bad results.
As a raw feeder I would really like some additional information here. I'd like to learn from the experiences of others. What exactly happened? There is no need to identify the TCS member involved.
post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschauer View Post
As a raw feeder I would really like some additional information here. I'd like to learn from the experiences of others. What exactly happened? There is no need to identify the TCS member involved.
I honestly don't have all the inside scoop other than this member has vowed never to feed raw again. If the member wishes to identify themselves to you and give you more information that will up to them.
post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
I honestly don't have all the inside scoop other than this member has vowed never to feed raw again. If the member wishes to identify themselves to you and give you more information that will up to them.
So you don't really know if the problem was raw food per se or if the raw feeding wasn't done properly? After all, not handling commercial foods properly can lead to serious illness and death also.

Given how many pets have been killed eating contaminated commercial foods, don't you think you should be issuing warnings about feeding commercial foods??

I'm not trying to pretend that there isn't extra knowledge needed when feeding raw over commercial, it just seems like some members here are determined to use scare tactics to prevent people from considering raw. There are risks to feeding commercial foods also.
post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschauer View Post
There are risks to feeding commercial foods also.
Yup there are risks with any food you feed a cat. Just have to decide what risks you are willing to take.
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris10 View Post
Yup there are risks with any food you feed a cat. Just have to decide what risks you are willing to take.
And people considering raw feeding should be given the facts they need to make an informed decision. Facts, not scare tactics intended to discourage them from even considering it.
post #18 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschauer View Post
So you don't really know if the problem was raw food per se or if the raw feeding wasn't done properly? After all, not handling commercial foods properly can lead to serious illness and death also.

Oh I absolutely do know it was the raw food and as I said this person is a more experienced and knowledgeable person than pretty much anyone else on this site so I'd say they definitely knew exactly what they were doing.

FWIW, this isn't a "scare tactic" - it's fact. I don't intend to get in a "p'ing" contest with anyone, I just think it's important to ensure the posters who probably have as little experience as I do to make sure they do research and don't just go on the say-so of ANYBODY, (and that includes me and the member that lost cats due to raw feeding), especially if the persons giving the information are not nutrition trained vets.
post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
I don't intend to get in a "p'ing" contest with anyone, ..
Glad to hear it because I think you are missing my point. I'll PM later.
post #20 of 25
As you've discovered there are a few different schools when it comes to raw feeding. The links that have been highlighted already cover a wide variety of examples of a suitable raw diet. When I began feeding raw I used frozen raw varieties from www.naturesvariety.com and www.rawadvantagepetfood.com
At the time I was working for a natural dog and cat food retailer in the Pacific Northwest. We were fortunate enough to have the owner of Raw Advantage stop in our store to answer questions and provide us with the information we needed to recommend a raw diet (not just her label). You might try a prepared frozen raw diet to test the waters. Once you feel comfortable with a raw diet for your feline you can play around with the recipe you believe is best.

Not all of us are as fortunate as Sharky to have a vet that has studied animal nutrition. A quick look at the curriculum of the College of Veterinary Medicine at Iowa State University shows that not one class in a four year program is taught about animal nutrition. But it's not just Iowa State, vets receive little if any training at all when it comes to animal nutrition. Oh the stories I have heard about owners telling their vet about a raw diet only to have the vet tell them that they will kill their beloved pet if they feed a raw diet consisting of chicken, beef, rabbit, lamb or what have you. Most vets offer food for sale in their practice. Science Diet, Eukunuba, pick up a bag and look at the ingredient panel. Animal by-products, artificial colors, artificial preservatives. Is this what your cat was designed to eat? Vets are a tremendous source of information, and they save life's of pets everyday. But when it comes to my cat, Zoe, her nutrition is in my hands. Not a vet who would like to sell me the equivalent of McDonald's to feed my cat. I would urge you to find a holistic vet if possible and discuss raw feeding with him or her. He or she is more likely to be on board with your raw feeding plan and will approach illness with your feline in general with a more natural approach. If you don't have a holistic vet in your area, see if one would be interested in consulting.

I've read a few posts on this site where it has been said a raw diet has killed and caused illness in cats. Not once have I read such a first hand account on www.thecatsite.com Many people will raise an eyebrow when you tell them you feed your cat a raw diet. My parents and many of my friends own cats and dogs. Even they look at me funny when I suggest a turkey neck for a dog with plaque build up. Or the cat who has an allergy to chicken, did they they try raw chicken I ask. Heat changes protein, it's not the same cooked as it is raw a cat who has an allergic reaction to cooked chicken may not have a reaction to raw chicken. This Thanksgiving I scored a small victory when I requested my mother save the turkey neck and organs. After dinner my families' seven year-old Golden Retriever ate a turkey neck for dinner while the two cats feasted on the organs. A week later I'm happy to confirm all three are still alive and my mother doesn't think I'm as crazy for recommending a raw diet.

When feeding a raw diet you have the piece of mind knowing exactly what your cat is consuming. Need I mention melamine? Feeding raw is not for everyone. It is more time consuming. Your are preparing the food yourself, extra diligence is needed in the sanitation department. Besides the obvious when handling raw meat, it means washing the food dish after every meal. Sanitation is more cause for concern than the raw diet itself. Feel free to PM with questions/concerns.
post #21 of 25
I think most of the long time TCS members know that I feed most of my cats and kittens a raw diet. I know exactly what I'm doing and have taken the time to find out how to do it properly. I have never had any illness or death due to raw diet.

There is a skill set involved, but it is not extremely difficult. The problem in my opinion, is that many people are lazy. Lazy and feeding raw do not mix.
You can't just plop down a few chunks of raw beef and expect your cat to thrive. Nor can you disregard safe raw meat handling practices.

All of our kittens go out to our clients, having experienced eating raw, but they are solidly on a commercial diet, because we don't actively encourage new owners to feed raw. We mention it and explain the benefits, but don't push it. If the client shows interest, then we encourage them to research and
ask a lot of questions and seek out a holistic Vet.

Many people just don't want to (or can't) take the time to learn how to do this properly.
post #22 of 25
I have been in PM communications with one long time TCS member who is active in rescue and who had one cat die of salmonella poisoning after eating raw food. In this case the TCS member did not feed the raw food. The cat was, unknown to the member, sneaking raw food from a neighbor cats food dish. So it is unknown what the source of the raw food was and how it was handled. Despite this experience, she currently feeds raw mice obtained from a reliable source (www.miceonice).

This is the kind of information I find useful. That is, exactly what happened is related so that others can make an informed decision about whether they want to attempt raw feeding.

As has been stated repeatedly by myself and others, anyone considering raw feeding should do their research and make sure they understand the proper way to do it.
post #23 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Bengals View Post
I think most of the long time TCS members know that I feed most of my cats and kittens a raw diet. I know exactly what I'm doing and have taken the time to find out how to do it properly. I have never had any illness or death due to raw diet.

There is a skill set involved, but it is not extremely difficult. The problem in my opinion, is that many people are lazy. Lazy and feeding raw do not mix.
You can't just plop down a few chunks of raw beef and expect your cat to thrive. Nor can you disregard safe raw meat handling practices.

All of our kittens go out to our clients, having experienced eating raw, but they are solidly on a commercial diet, because we don't actively encourage new owners to feed raw. We mention it and explain the benefits, but don't push it. If the client shows interest, then we encourage them to research and
ask a lot of questions and seek out a holistic Vet.

Many people just don't want to (or can't) take the time to learn how to do this properly.

Niall - you have pretty much summed up my feelings exactly. I tend to panic a bit when I see some members pushing raw feeding. I personally think raw feeding is probably wonderful but as you say, it is not for the very busy or lazy. I read some posts where cats have acne because their bowls are cleaned once per week - that's a scary thought for someone feeding raw, and folks who scoop the litter once a week - raw feeding is definitely not for those folks.

As in everything, the poster needs to get professional advice and be diligent with safety issues such as handling and time left out, etc. I tend to advise on the belief that most new members asking some of these questions are as ill informed as I most certainly was when I became a member here. I would hate for them to take advice they received here and do harm or even kill their pet.
post #24 of 25
Thread Starter 
I dont think I'm going to do the raw feedings. It seems that there are a few too many errors that can be made that can seriously hurt your cat. The food I'm feeding her now is organic and doesn't contain any bi-products, or other harmful contents as far as I've read.

http://www.bynaturepetfoods.com/prod...nedcat.php#ccl
post #25 of 25
that food is IMHO a good one

I cannot tell if those are "complete" they do appear so but on the label is

there an AFFCO statement like on the dry ???
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