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Good Dry Limited Ingredient Diets?

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
I posted awhile back asking if anyone had suggestions of a food that's similar to the Royal Canin Veterinary Diet, Rabbit & Green Pea. Didn't get much response, so I'm trying again.

Here's a list of the ingredients:

Ground peas, rabbit meal, rabbit, pea protein, canola oil, rabbit digest, calcium sulfate, dicalcium phosphate, salmon oil, DL-methionine, choline chloride, sodium chloride, L-lysine, potassium citrate, phosphoric acid, vitamins [DL-alpha-tocopherol (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), niacin, inositol, vitamin A supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), D-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin (vitamin B2), menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), beta-carotene, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement], minerals [zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, iron proteinate, copper sulfate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], taurine, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract, and citric acid.

Guaranteed Analysis %:
Crude Protein (min) 30
Crude Fat (min) 11
Moisture (max) 10
Crude Fiber (max) 7

This food is $35 for 6.5lbs., which (now that our other Ragdoll is eating it too) lasts about a month. So, it's not TOO bad if you think of it as $15/mo. per cat, however, I'd love to find something less expensive, that we can also buy in larger quantities (6lbs. is the largest bag anyone sells), and not always have to get it from the vet (it's a perscription diet).

I have tried the Natural Balance Green Pea & Duck, and that didn't go over well. We started this food due to constant loose stools, and it has definitely helped, although he still has 'loose' days. I've tried wet food, many different brands/flavors, and it just doesn't agree with him.

I'm thinking maybe a Venison formula might agree with him? He originally was on Chicken Soup, which is why we chose to try a Rabbit formula first. So I'm thinking nothing with chicken, or duck (makes sense, both birds). Doesn't Natural Balance make a Venison forumla? Anyone know of some others that do limited ingredient diets?
post #2 of 27
Since Natural Balance changed their food I've had no luck with it - or any of their foods anymore. I was sad. I can't for the life of me think of a Venison dry formula!

What about the possibility of Fromm's Duck a la Veg? I tried it & it worked for one of my kitties.....that's the best I can think of.
post #3 of 27
It seems like I came across a venison dry food when I was researching grain-free food. I can't remember right now which one it was. I'll see if I can find it for you.
post #4 of 27
Sounds like Taste of the Wild. It's venison and salmon.
post #5 of 27
Okay, I should have looked in my pantry before I posted. I feed my cats Taste of the Wild, which is labeled as having venison & salmon, and they love it. However, the venison is apparently only a small amount of the total. The first ingredient listed is chicken meal. I didn't find any other dry food with venison except the brand you're already using when I did a google search. It looks like most of the venison cat food is canned.

Are you sure it's the poultry that causes the problems? Have you tried food that has beef or lamb as the first ingredient?
post #6 of 27
What about this one for sensitive stomachs: Halo Spot's Stew Indoor Formula Salmon Recipe Cat Food

Here is the link from petco: http://www.petco.com/product/105024/...-Cat-Food.aspx

And here are the ingredients:
Salmon, pea protein, whole dried eggs, oats, pearled barley, vegetable broth, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), pea flour, chicken liver, chicken, flaxseed, salmon oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), pea fiber, sweet potatoes, apples, blueberries, green beans, carrots, cranberries, zucchini, alfalfa, inulin, calcium sulfate, potassium chloride, taurine, salt, folic acid, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, cobalt proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, choline bitartrate, niacin, pantothenic acid, ascorbic acid, riboflavin supplement, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, biotin, lactobacillus acidophilus, bifidobacterium longum, enterococcus faecium, lactobacillus plantarum, calcium iodate, sodium selenite

Good Luck!!
post #7 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldyCat View Post
Okay, I should have looked in my pantry before I posted. I feed my cats Taste of the Wild, which is labeled as having venison & salmon, and they love it. However, the venison is apparently only a small amount of the total. The first ingredient listed is chicken meal. I didn't find any other dry food with venison except the brand you're already using when I did a google search. It looks like most of the venison cat food is canned.

Are you sure it's the poultry that causes the problems? Have you tried food that has beef or lamb as the first ingredient?
We're (the vet & I) not sure, but that's what we figured when we switched him off the Chicken Soup. I had also tried Felidae as well. He's never been tested for a food allergy, so we don't know what (if anything) he's allergic to; we just that his stools firmed up alot when put on the Rabbit formula, as well as our other Ragdolls (maybe it's a Ragdoll thing?).

I have tried the Natural Balance Duck, and that did not agree with him, which is why I think he doesn't do well with any poultry.

I looked at the Halo's Spot's Stew food, and is looks like it definitely has chicken in it, which I'd like to stay away from for now.

I'm going to talk to my vet soon, but wanted to get some suggestions here so I can take them in and show him. Thanks for the suggestions so far!
post #8 of 27
Hi There -

I found one completely poultry free, and grain free: "ORIJEN 6 Fish for Cats"

http://www.championpetfoods.com/orij...gredients.aspx

It is hard to find, but you can also buy online, or see if they have an specific store near you.

Here are the ingredients:
Fresh de-boned salmon (Chinook, Coho and sockeye species), pacific salmon meal, russet potato, Atlantic herring meal, fresh de-boned lake whitefish, sweet potato, fresh de-boned lake trout, fresh de-boned walleye, fresh de-boned cod, fresh de-boned herring, sunflower oil, salmon oil (preserved with mixed tocopherals, a natural source of vitamin E), sun-cured alfalfa, sea vegetables (brown kelp, Irish moss, dulse and bladder wrack), leeks, psyllium, crab shell, rosemary, lecithin, apples, chicory root, licorice root, fenugreek, glucosamine HCl, cranberries, black currants, marigold flowers, fennel seed, zea mays, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary extract, chondroitin sulfate, rosehips, vitamins (vitamin E, choline chloride, vitamin A, vitamin D3, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin B12, folic acid, biotin), sea salt, minerals (iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate), direct fed microbials (dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product).
post #9 of 27
Thread Starter 
Hm, that sounds good, but I'm not sure I want to feed something that's 'limited supply' (it says that on their website). What if it wasn't available when I needed to re-order? No pet stores in my area sell it either. I'll keep that one in my head just in case, but would rather go with something that's readily available.
post #10 of 27
Orijen sister food Acana also has an all fish grain free

acana also makes a lamb formula
post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
Orijen sister food Acana also has an all fish grain free

acana also makes a lamb formula
Sharky is right.... Acana has quite a few no chicken/no grain dry food choices.

below is an example:

http://www.championpetfoods.com/acan...ormulation=pfc

Good Luck!
post #12 of 27
Natural Balance makes a Duck and Green Pea formula. Although you mentioned not wanting to try duck as they're both birds, they are a completely different protein. If you're interested in Venison, NB makes a canned formula. If you're trying to nail down an allergy, a truly limited ingredient diet contains only one protein and one carbohydrate source. Some of the foods mentioned above may only have fish as a protein source, but multiple species of fish.
post #13 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzMugly View Post
Natural Balance makes a Duck and Green Pea formula. Although you mentioned not wanting to try duck as they're both birds, they are a completely different protein. If you're interested in Venison, NB makes a canned formula. If you're trying to nail down an allergy, a truly limited ingredient diet contains only one protein and one carbohydrate source. Some of the foods mentioned above may only have fish as a protein source, but multiple species of fish.
As I've said twice now, I have tried the Natural Balance Duck & Green Pea and it didn't agree with him. Wet food doesn't either, I've tried numerous kinds and it all gives him soft stools. Feeding wet isn't worth it for me seeing as everytime he eats it he's in the sink the next morning getting a bath.

I'll look into some of the foods with fish, although I thought males were supposed to stay away from the fishy foods? I already have 2 that have had urinary tract issues, would prefer not to add another!
post #14 of 27
I use California Natural for my kitties that need a novel protein source food. I feed the salmon and sweet potato wet food, but they have a herring and sweet potato dry food that might work for you.

http://www.californianaturalpet.com/...nel=in&id=1338

I don't know if the chicken fat would be a problem, though...
post #15 of 27
You've asked the million dollar question, lol. One of my cats also *might* have a food allergy...didn't do well on the duck/pea or a combo of duck/pea and vennison/pea canned foods... I've pretty much given up on finding an allergy food that he'll eat and that I can get locally, so he's on Max right now with the other cats...

The Acana plains / prarie formula (the one w/ fish and lamb) sounds like it'd be great but nowhere near me sells it and I don't think even petfooddirect carries it.

To the O.P.: Have you thought about trying single protien source wet food? EVO has a line that includes duck, chicken/turkey, beef, vennison, and rabbit. It is pricey (otherwise I'd be feeding it right now) but could be a good option to see if he "reacts" to any of the single protien sources...i.e. if he gets loose stool from eating the vennison, etc..

Art
post #16 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgecko View Post
You've asked the million dollar question, lol. One of my cats also *might* have a food allergy...didn't do well on the duck/pea or a combo of duck/pea and vennison/pea canned foods... I've pretty much given up on finding an allergy food that he'll eat and that I can get locally, so he's on Max right now with the other cats...

The Acana plains / prarie formula (the one w/ fish and lamb) sounds like it'd be great but nowhere near me sells it and I don't think even petfooddirect carries it.

To the O.P.: Have you thought about trying single protien source wet food? EVO has a line that includes duck, chicken/turkey, beef, vennison, and rabbit. It is pricey (otherwise I'd be feeding it right now) but could be a good option to see if he "reacts" to any of the single protien sources...i.e. if he gets loose stool from eating the vennison, etc..

Art
Same here on the Acana stuff.. doesn't even look like it's available yet anywhere I look.

No, I hadn't thought to try that re: Evo. I just worry that just because it is wet, that he'll react to it, but I suppose I could try it. I wish allergy testing wasn't so expensive, otherwise I'd have it done to see if that even is the issue. He might just have a sensitive stomach or something. He still has some days on the Rabbit where he is loose, but nothing compared to what I was dealing with a few months ago.
post #17 of 27
I've seen several threads here that suggest adding a little pumpkin to the diet for runny stools. It should be plain pumpkin, not spiced pumpkin pie mix, and maybe only a couple of teaspoons a day. If you do a search for pumpkin you should be able to find some of the threads. I didn't keep up with any of them long enough to find out how well it works.
post #18 of 27
I found a few more options that might work for you.

Wellness has a formula where Salmon is the main protein: Wellness Dry Complete Health Salmon

Ingredients:
Salmon, Salmon Meal, Whitefish Meal, Rice, Ground Barley, Ground Rice, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Deboned Turkey, Natural Chicken Flavor, Natural Fish Flavor, Cranberries, Olive Oil, Chicory Root Extract, Cranberry Extract Powder, Cranberry Fiber, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement), Choline Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Kelp, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, lactobacillus Casei, lactobacillus Acidophilus, Taurine, Rosemary Extract.

It has chicken fat and chicken flavor but no actual chicken, and may be a possible alternative for your pet. Many mainstream stores carry Wellness now, including Petco, and Pet Supplies Plus.


Next up is Nature's Variety, which produces a formula that doesn't involve Chicken or Duck or anything like that.

Nature's Variety Lamb Meal & Oat Medley

Ingredient List:
Lamb Meal, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Oatmeal, Brown Rice, Ground Flaxseeds, Montmorillonite Clay, Natural Lamb Flavor, Alfalfa Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal, Lamb Liver, Potassium Chloride, Sea Salt, DL-Methionine, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Biotin, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Beta Carotene, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Sodium Selenite), Taurine, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Inulin, Flaxseed Oil, Apples, Cranberries, Freeze Dried Lamb, Freeze Dried Lamb Hearts, Freeze Dried Lamb Liver, Pumpkinseeds, Carrots, Ground Lamb Bone, Butternut Squash, Chicken Eggs, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Salmon Oil, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Olive Oil, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Sage, Clove, Rosemary Extract.

They also have a Salmon formula, but it looks like that formula includes chicken liver near the top of the ingredient list.

I used the Store Locator on the Nature's Variety website and it looks like the Pet Supplies Plus in Virginia Beach (which it says isn't too far from you) carries Nature's Variety. I wouldn't be surprised if they also carried Wellness.


I also think that maybe trying the California Natural is a good idea. Their foods have a lot of great reviews from people with cats that had sensitive tummies or allergic reactions. California Natural foods have really small ingredient lists. For example, here is the Herring and Sweet Potato formula another member recommended:

Ingredient List:
Herring, Barley, Oatmeal, Herring Meal, Chicken Fat, Natural Flavors, Sweet Potatoes, Sunflower Oil, Herring Oil, Vitamins, DL Methionine, Minerals, Taurine, and Rosemary Extract

It specifies which vitamins and minerals are included on the website: California Natural Herring


Also, I'm wondering about the wet food. Normally wet food shouldn't just automatically cause diarrhea. Dry food is so much less like a cat's normal diet than canned food. I am wondering if the reason it caused diarrhea isn't because it is wet food, but because you might have fed it suddenly? I'm not trying to accuse you of anything, just find potential causes. There are a lot of wet foods that use venison, rabbit, salmon, and other fish instead of chicken, turkey, or duck, but ANY food provided to your kitty suddenly (especially if your kitty has a sensitive tummy) can cause dietary upset. Did you feed a few ounces of wet food, or just a few tastes? It seems like with your poor kitty you will always have to be really careful of what you feed.


Another thing to consider, and I'm sorry that my post is so long, is parasites. You seem like a good meowmy, so I'm guessing you and your vet tested for giardia and coccidia and stuff. However, a lot of vets don't know about Tritrichomonas Foetus. Tritrich is an intestinal single-celled parasite somewhat similar to giardia, but the research is fairly recent in terms of veterinary teaching. For instance, my vet had never heard of it. Please read about it here:

Dr. Judy Gookin's website at North Carolina State University

Dr. Gookin's research implies that Tritrich may be present in up to 30% of pedigreed cats. Testing isn't very difficult if you use the pouch method. My vet and I purchased some of the pouch tests ($35 for 5) and she helped me test my two Siamese kitties, who have had chronic diarrhea problems since I brought them home. Both of them are positive, and we are taking steps to eventually treat them for it. Please check out Dr. Gookin's website, especially if your kitty is still having occasional episodes, even with the vet's rabbit diet. Your raggie may have a problem such as this that can be treated!

Good luck!
post #19 of 27
Thread Starter 
I've actually used pumpkin for my other cats before, and it has helped firm them up. Although I didn't think it was good to use it for long term cases? I've given Brody (the kitty in question) Bene-Bac as well, which has seemed to help.

Pet Supplies Plus is actually where I get all of my pet food, so I do know that they sell Wellness, and I believe they usually stock Nature's Variety (even if they say online that they have it, it's not always in stock).

Re: the wet food. I would give him about a table spoon full of it once a day, and even that would cause him to get loose stools. I tried Nutro (numerous flavors), Wellness (all of their flavors), and Chicken Soup. After 3-4 months of trying, I gave up. Like I said, not worth it.

He has been tested for all of the common parasites you mentioned, which all came back clear. I'll read that link you gave me when I have more time, but thank you for that.
post #20 of 27
You're welcome! And good luck trying Wellness and/or Nature's Variety. Maybe one of those will help him. If you do find that your kitties have Tritrich, feel free to PM me for any advice. Another forum member, Twokatz, has two kitties with Tritrich and may have helpful advice also. Too bad about the wet food. That seems really odd. It really shouldn't cause diarrhea. More moisture is BETTER for any animal (and humans) with diarrhea. Very weird!
post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by kady05 View Post
I've actually used pumpkin for my other cats before, and it has helped firm them up. Although I didn't think it was good to use it for long term cases? I've given Brody (the kitty in question) Bene-Bac as well, which has seemed to help.
I'm not sure how using pumpkin long-term would be any worse than using a food that lists peas as the first ingredient. It might be worth trying anyway, even if it's just for a short time.
post #22 of 27
Hmm...not sure why wet food...esp. the small amount you describe, would give him a reaction, unless he was allergic to the ingredients in it (or, like you said, just has a sensitive stomach).... Could he possibly be allergic to a grain in the food/s? For a while I thought that my cat might be allergic to corn, but still not sure on that score...

Since he usually does ok on the rabbit, maybe try a can of the EVO 95% rabbit... I know that some other sources have rabbit canned food...wysong comes to mind....

I am in a similar situation to you, in that I can't get a wide variety of foods locally, I had to order the EVO and the cal. natural (I tried) online... You might be able to get coupons or samples of the foods if you email the companies...wellness sent me a sample of CORE and their salmon-based dry when I contacted them...maybe a sample (about 1/4 cup) would be enough to see if he had an immediate loose stool reaction to it...

HTH,
Art
post #23 of 27
Thread Starter 
He may be allergic to grains, who knows. I had never thought to try a grain free food to see if that helped.
I might call the vet Monday and ask about allergy testing.. just to see what I'm looking at cost-wise.
post #24 of 27
Thread Starter 
Just wanted to update. I took Brody to the vet today, stools looked good under the microscope. I gave my vet the info. on the Tritrich parasite as well. He had heard of it before, but did go and look it up to get more info. on it. The treatment for it is kind of scary (neurological issues can happen because of it, and some other things), so we decided to use that as a last resort. Especially since he did improve somewhat with the diet change.

Anyway. We decided to treat him with a low dose of Prednisone (5mg once a day for a week, then every other day til finished, I have 20 pills) to see if that helps. He's thinking it could be inflammatory bowel disease. So, no diet change right now (don't want to throw another wrench into the situation), and hopefully the prednisone helps him out!
post #25 of 27
I'm feeding my Lucas natural balance green peas and duck formula because I thought he had food allergies, but he doesn't. He is eating it anyway and he likes it a lot.
post #26 of 27
Good luck with your baby! I will be sure to post here about how my treatment goes, to let you know if my kitties have a reaction to the medication or not. I don't want them to have diarrhea forever, and we know that they are positive for Tri trich. If you end up with it as your last resort, be sure to test for it first. You don't want to medicate your kitties with that stuff unless you have to.

I hope it works out for you! At least you have a bunch of other food options to try if you need them now.
post #27 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorana_dragonky View Post
Good luck with your baby! I will be sure to post here about how my treatment goes, to let you know if my kitties have a reaction to the medication or not. I don't want them to have diarrhea forever, and we know that they are positive for Tri trich. If you end up with it as your last resort, be sure to test for it first. You don't want to medicate your kitties with that stuff unless you have to.

I hope it works out for you! At least you have a bunch of other food options to try if you need them now.
Thanks Vet said we'd definitely order the tests and test for it if we decided to go that route, so no worries there. Hopefully this prednisone will help him out.
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